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Wondering about the status of the AI issues re: ranged characters running up into melee range?

Looked for info in the bug forums but the only thing I saw that fit led to a page that said No Discussion Found.

Put this here (General) becuase I didn't want to clutter up the BUG forum with discussion of an issue I am certain they already know about.

What I am seeing is characters weilding ranged weapons running up into melee range to use them - especially under the default AI but also under other AI choices to a lesser degree.

When it occurs I can stop it my taking control and ordering them to attack manually but once that enemy goes down they usually run up to the next enemy in line. When you have several ranged characters in a group this turns into a real chinese fire drill. LOL

Anyway just trying to find out if any progress is being made and/or whether or not we might see something for it in the next patch or two

(or any work arounds folks have discovered)

TIA

Comments

  • styggastygga Member Posts: 467
    It used to be bad, it hasn't been happening as much for me but still has. Maybe it's because i've been playing with ai off? Info appreciated as well!
  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747
    edited February 2013
    It's still happening. I usually turn AI off or set individual NPCs to "none" script (instead of custom_none). But yeah, a real fix would be nice.
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    I always turn scripts off anyway. I micromanage the combat.
  • Aasimar069Aasimar069 Member Posts: 803
    Lemernis said:

    I always turn scripts off anyway. I micromanage the combat.


    It's useful for small encounters at high levels (Kobolds and such).


    Coran used to auto dispatch them quickly and swiftly.

    Now he run like a moron close to them and attack them with his bow in melee range.

    Nice job.


    And once again : ranged script is not reliable.

  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    Also, the game seriously needs a decent simple Bard script...
  • WanderonWanderon Member Posts: 1,418
    I micromanage as well but there was never much of an issue in vanilla with basic scripts handling basic attacks as long as your expectations were reasonably low LOL!

    Just enough so you could micromanage your spellcasters or characters using special tactics or general positioning and allow the script to keep the rest of the party simply targeting enemies as they were scripted in melee or ranged attacks.

    I don't recall basic script issues with vanilla BG2 either altho in both games the ranged script sometimes caused the archer to spend more time moving around getting out of melee range and not attacking instead of just switching to melee weapons as the script intended.

  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    The one exception I have made to my micromanaging ways, is when playing the SCS I sometimes use the 'Ease of Use' AI script just because it's so impressive to watch. It's so effective that it almost takes some fun out of the game, though.
  • WanderonWanderon Member Posts: 1,418
    I went through a breif period in Vanilla BG1 where I had scripts set for everyone and only interefered with them during tough battles or in order to retarget someone and many of the newer games have decent enough AI to let the party play on thier own but I quickly decided I didn't want to watch a movie of the game I wanted to PLAY it and took most of the decision making back into my own hands.

    That said with a party of 6 it would be nice if a basic attack script would work well enough so you didn't have to micromange every character for every round of every battle.
  • reedmilfamreedmilfam Member Posts: 2,808
    It definitely still happens to me. I play with AI off because of it, and they still run in there from time to time. A very frustrating problem for this game, as it detracts from enjoyment.
  • AHFAHF Member Posts: 1,376
    This is a particularly annoying problem since it didn't exist in BG2 (meaning that with the same engine something must have changed for the worse).

    Two scripts I would love to see are:

    * Thief script for finding traps (ala BG2)
    * Cleric script for turning undead

    I find turning undead and having to micromanage my cleric so she doesn't start attacking or doing something else to break the turning to be a real chore.
  • reedmilfamreedmilfam Member Posts: 2,808
    Interesting. I never turn undead because they run around and are a pain to hunt. However, I suspect that turning undead will become very valuable in BG2.
  • Aasimar069Aasimar069 Member Posts: 803
    Indeed. In Bg2 most of the undead are either insta-chunked or die very quickly.

    Best solution to completly disable lichs and vampires is to run next to it with your cleric then pummel it with your party as it cowers in fear.
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    AHF said:

    This is a particularly annoying problem since it didn't exist in BG2 (meaning that with the same engine something must have changed for the worse).

    Two scripts I would love to see are:

    * Thief script for finding traps (ala BG2)

    The passive thief script already does that, but does more than just that (e.g. engaging a nearby enemy, which you might not want if invisible and scouting for traps near an enemy), which isn't always ideal.

    As said before I would like:

    * A bard script that makes your bard always sing, if not overridden by anther action

  • AHFAHF Member Posts: 1,376

    AHF said:

    This is a particularly annoying problem since it didn't exist in BG2 (meaning that with the same engine something must have changed for the worse).

    Two scripts I would love to see are:

    * Thief script for finding traps (ala BG2)

    The passive thief script already does that, but does more than just that (e.g. engaging a nearby enemy, which you might not want if invisible and scouting for traps near an enemy), which isn't always ideal.

    As said before I would like:

    * A bard script that makes your bard always sing, if not overridden by anther action

    That is exactly the problem with the passive thief script. There are times in BG2 where you need to search for traps in the middle of an active fight as well so even if the character isn't invisible/hidden you need a script that doesn't break off searching for traps until specifically overridden by another action.

    I am 100% on board with your bard script idea as well. Really, the cleric turning, thief searching and bard singing scripts should all be the same mechanism with just a different ability tied out.
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    One bug I'm noticing in my current game is that when a particular type of arrows is exhausted, and yet there are other types of arrows equipped, the archer nevertheless unequips the bow and switches to melee with fists, running at the target, lol. (Not good when it's Imoen dualed to mage!)
  • LoremasterLoremaster Member Posts: 212
    This happens to me too. I find Imoen running head on into melee range with her bow ready; I must say this is annoying.
    AHF said:



    Two scripts I would love to see are:

    * Thief script for finding traps (ala BG2)
    * Cleric script for turning undead

    I find turning undead and having to micromanage my cleric so she doesn't start attacking or doing something else to break the turning to be a real chore.

    A script for turning undead would be quite useful. I usually don’t assign script to clerics as it interrupt their turing undead. Out of (bad) habit I keep them unscripted even if there are no undead around. I really don’t like to micromanage everything and tries to keep it to mages.
  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747
    I loved the thief/scout for traps script in BG2, and occasionally the "protect mages" script available for fighter types. I'd love that one for roleplay reasons, too. (In my case: have Monty act as bodyguard for Xzar, or others may want it for Minsc and Dynaheir.) Also agreed about cleric and bard scripts. Evil clerics don't make undead run away, they actually turn them to your side, but they change back to hostile when the cleric stops turning. As it is, I often have very confused skeletons that don't know whose side they are on.
  • ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122
    The game needs a more intelligent system than scripts to determine allied and enemy AI. If you expect anything from scripts you are sure to be sorely disappointed.
  • PawnSlayerPawnSlayer Member Posts: 295
    Lemernis said:

    One bug I'm noticing in my current game is that when a particular type of arrows is exhausted, and yet there are other types of arrows equipped, the archer nevertheless unequips the bow and switches to melee with fists, running at the target, lol. (Not good when it's Imoen dualed to mage!)

    This isn't actually a bug, though it is a feature for which I'd like an "off" button. It's to stop players accidentally wasting all their magical ammo when not intended.

    Which makes exactly zero sense when non-magical arrows are all that's left in the quiver, but hey ho, just a bad decision made when coding the original game.
  • AHFAHF Member Posts: 1,376
    ajwz said:

    The game needs a more intelligent system than scripts to determine allied and enemy AI. If you expect anything from scripts you are sure to be sorely disappointed.

    A script that has a character do only one thing (turn, bard song, search for traps) until manually instructed to do something else should be effective and easy to implement.

    More complex behavioral scripts do seem to generally create more trouble than they are worth, IMO.
  • AnthedonAnthedon Member Posts: 26

    Lemernis said:


    This isn't actually a bug, though it is a feature for which I'd like an "off" button. It's to stop players accidentally wasting all their magical ammo when not intended.

    Which makes exactly zero sense when non-magical arrows are all that's left in the quiver, but hey ho, just a bad decision made when coding the original game.

    Was this in the original game? I can't recall this behaviour at all, and it's driving me bonkers.
  • ScytheKnightScytheKnight Member Posts: 220
    Ohhh, of you're playing BGII never, ever, EVER use the Mageslayer script. It has a habit of prioritizing targeting a spell caster rather then targeting an enemy >_<

    And yes, the AI in EE is really wonky.
  • billyjeanbillyjean Member Posts: 18
    Great thread.

    As much as i love BG the AI in EE is ABSOLUTLEY DISCRACEFUL.

    - as stated after casting a spell casters run to melee range after casting a spell

    - when an archer finishes a stack of ammunition, instead of moving to the next stack or ammo they switch to a melee weapon or fists. WTF
    - when casting Melfs Meteors instead of switching back to the weapon setting prior to casting melfs. After you have used the meteors the weapons switch to melee or fists?

    - pathfinding is dreadful to non existant
    - in combat your own party memebers is bunch up and block eachother from moving in to engage and attack the enemy
    - on the map chars sometimes fail to move from A to B

    Custom scripts - to compare them to a beta would be kind. Most of them simply do not work at all.

    - Set Ajantis to agressive figher - He will never engage enemies and sometimes will not even attack if he is being attacked, he will stand around idle. YES this is on agressive fighter

    - Agressive wizard - I set Baeloth to this AI script, he casts absolutly zero spells so i bascally thought this script did not work and continued to use him manually. Then after 4-5 hours or gameplay he casted flaming fingers on his own without being ordered? WTF. so im like 'oh the script is working'. Nope, another hour or so of game player with no spells being casted and then he casted another one randomly. I have also set edwin to this setting and he spams magic missiles which is great but nothing else ( no acid arrow,flame arrow or emotion )

    - The thief script where they will attempt to hide in shadows (cant remeber the name) - my char Never, NOT once hid or attempted to hide in shadows for the entire game.

    I have just given up on all of the scipts ive tried most of them and simply do not work or are far to unreliable to use. I like micro-ing in battle but when chars will stand around in battle and not even defend themselves or cant even find a very basic path to attack an enemy and stand around is really bad

    Back in 98 when i first got BG i didnt even notice these. But by todays standards of games BGEE need to address these very basic 'AI 101' issues to make the game more fluent and less frustrating so that is more enjoyable

    If people here have played dragon age you will see how brialliant the AI customisation options are. Obviously i dont expect the same for a 15 year old game but if they could get some basic AI and scripts working reliably that would be great.
  • WanderonWanderon Member Posts: 1,418
    To be fair scripts in vanilla were far from perfect altho as I recall there were some advanced scripts put together by modders back then that were reported to be considerably better (never tried them) - but frankly I would be happy (or at least happier) if the basic attack scripts like AGEN just worked well enough to keep a melee character or archer targeting the nearest bad guy with whatever weapon he is currently weilding while I micromanage the more complex duties manually.

    The other purpose I had for starting this thread was to try to discover whether or not tweaking the scripts is "officially" on anyones to do list and a general idea of how far down the list it might be.
  • NifftNifft Member Posts: 1,065
    I've got a Feature Request in requesting that they open up the Bard Song and Turn Undead buttons, in part so better scripting can be done.

    http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/15541/bard-song-and-turn-undead-buttons

    The other part is so some mods can change them, which would allow different AI scripts. For me the most convenient script would be something like:
    - Turn/Sing buttons have no immediate effect -- never don't abort a spell or attack.
    loop:
    - Perform my current action.
    - Once per round, check to see if the Turn/Sing button was clicked.
    - If it was, append a Turn/Sing action to my action queue.
    - GOTO loop;
  • AHFAHF Member Posts: 1,376
    edited February 2013
    Nifft said:

    I've got a Feature Request in requesting that they open up the Bard Song and Turn Undead buttons, in part so better scripting can be done.

    http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/15541/bard-song-and-turn-undead-buttons

    The other part is so some mods can change them, which would allow different AI scripts. For me the most convenient script would be something like:
    - Turn/Sing buttons have no immediate effect -- never don't abort a spell or attack.
    loop:
    - Perform my current action.
    - Once per round, check to see if the Turn/Sing button was clicked.
    - If it was, append a Turn/Sing action to my action queue.
    - GOTO loop;

    Thanks! I also started a thread specifically directed at single activity scripts.
    Post edited by AHF on
  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,064
    I'm certain that BG:EE scripts are actually worse than vanilla.
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