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Elven Chain

Ok, I understand that elven chain is part of Dorn's quest line. He's in my party but hasn't said anything yet. What triggers the quest? Also, how early can you get the elven chain? What chapter? Playing with a good-aligned party, I'm worried my rep might get too high before I can get it. Any info is appreciated. Thanks.
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  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747
    Take him to the area east of the Nashkel mines, that should trigger his quest. The earliest point to get the Elven Chain is after Cloakwood when you can enter Baldur's Gate.
  • DarrylsonDarrylson Member Posts: 87
    Talk to a woman outside the inn in Nashkel to get the ball rolling on Dorn's quest line.

    The Elven Chain drops at the end of Dorn's quest. which you won't be able to complete until after Cloakwood mines, since you need to be able to cross the bridge into the city of Baldur's Gate.
  • DelDel Member Posts: 44
    Can I drop/add him and still continue the quest line? Thanks again!
  • ScytheKnightScytheKnight Member Posts: 220
    Anyone else think it kind of Fing BS that an item useful to multiple characters of any alignment is ONLY available through the story of an evil NCP?
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    edited February 2013

    Anyone else think it kind of Fing BS that an item useful to multiple characters of any alignment is ONLY available through the story of an evil NCP?

    Yes this sucks a bit. especially if playing a Bard, as they can't use robes, though there's nothing to stop you haveing an evil NPC with a good or neutral-aligned CHARNAME as long as you keep you Rep at 18 or lower, though this might be a little odd RP-wise if CHARANAME is a Paladin or something. I have a mixed-aligned party (though no Lawful Good or Chaotic Evil) in my current game with a Chaotic Neutral Blade CHARNAME and it's working out well
    Post edited by Oxford_Guy on
  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747
    edited February 2013
    I'm getting so annoyed with this, even if I do not play a bard. I like bards, so I'll often take Eldoth to fill the 6th slot. He isn't great to begin with and it's hard enough to make him useful; same with Garrick from what I read. Sure, having the Elven Chain in the game at all is better than not having it... but this is a serious hassle and completely unneccessary. It's not gamebreaking to put the Elven Chain somewhere between Nashkel Mines and Bandit Camp, every other class can get decent armor around that stage, too. For bards, the entire game before Baldur's Gate with Dorn in the party, it's either no armor or no using half the skills of the class. And without Dorn, it's like that until the end.

    And while I like Dorn best out of the new NPCs, I do get fed up if I have to have him for a considerable length of time in every run. Sometimes, I just want a different party, even if I do play all evil or evil-neutral.
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729

    I'm getting so annoyed with this, even if I do not play a bard. I like bards, so I'll often take Eldoth to fill the 6th slot. He isn't great to begin with and it's hard enough to make him useful; same with Garrick from what I read. Sure, having the Elven Chain in the game at all is better than not having it... but this is a serious hassle and completely unneccessary. It's not gamebreaking to put the Elven Chain somewhere between Nashkel Mines and Bandit Camp, every other class can get decent armor around that stage, too. For bards, the entire game before Baldur's Gate with Dorn in the party, it's either no armor or no using half the skills of the class. And without Dorn, it's like that until the end.

    And while I like Dorn best out of the new NPCs, I do get fed up if I have to have him for a considerable length of time in every run. Sometimes, I just want a different party, even if I do play all evil or evil-neutral.

    I agree, it does seem a little unfair, though a Bard can manage with Shield Amulet before then, which gives better AC than the Elven Chain, though can get expensive to use if activating it for every encounter (unless you steal it back) - what I do is to nearly always send a thief or ranger (or Cat familiar) to scout out encounters first, so can then decide whether to put on normal chain mail (can still use wands and scrolls) or to go unarmoured and use the Shield Amulet and cast spells. Of course this doesn't work for when you get ambushed...

    Even dropping the elven chail at the encounter with Kryll would be better than the current situation.
  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747
    I was thinking that, too. But Kryll is a mage, she has no business dropping anything but a robe. That's the only issue I see with it; it would be the right time in the quest line.
    The problem with shield amulets is - the recharging is expensive, you have to do the mines before you can summon a familiar to boost your HP, you have other party members to equip, your mage is useless after casting the few spells and needs AC, too... So you have to invest way more gold on low levels when you can't really afford it. On higher levels - when you can spare the gold - you have the Elven Chain. It just makes no sense this way.
  • AranthysAranthys Member Posts: 722
    Actually, there's a few things I dislike about how the new NPCs/ Their quests were implemented.

    1 - The gem bag beeing held by Neera (Not a huge problem, but still... )

    I find it a bit stupid to have to recruit her, then kick her from the group just in order to get that gem bag.
    I'd have preferred to find the bag either from a quest, or bought it from someone.
    No other NPC ever held an irremplaceable item that can't be found somewhere else from the get go.

    2 - The fact that you are required to have the new NPCs in your group in order to visit the new zones.
    3 - The fact that two of the three quests can't be completed until late in the game (Not a huge problem, but still ... )
    4 - Rasaad sucking that much .. too bad they didn't implement the "Get to level 10 for all classes" rule, similar to what they did for the black pits, monks start beeing OK at level 9.
  • SeveronSeveron Member Posts: 214
    I agree with Aranthys. I find it annoying that you can't go into the new areas unless you have the NPC's which I feel is a great shame. I can't stand Rassad, his personality, his stats or class and so will likely not ever see the new Cloud Peaks :(
  • In the original bg was no elven chain, so the fact that you can get one is a huge plus. No mather how high the prise.
    Unavailable areas are just silly.
  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747
    Same here.

    I can see how it makes sense, rp-wise, for Neera to have the bag. (I haven't tried it, but I somehow doubt her wild surges create THAT many gems that it justifies an own container though). But there should also be one for sale or in a mini quest, like the scroll case. It's an essential item for every class, same as the other containers. Sure, I can kill her or recruit-remove, but there are a million roleplay reasons why someone wouldn't want to do that.

    The inability to complete quests (and mostly to get the Elven Chain) for a long time is pretty annoying. It does mess with party planning. By the time I get to the city, I usually have my party the way I want it and invested in the NPCs - the proficiencies, the weapons, armor, possibly tomes. So I'm unlikely to switch one party member out and head back to grab an earlier NPC who may have proficiencies I dislike or not need by that time. It's the same reason why the late game NPCs are so unpopular in comparison to those you can get earlier. I have to keep an NPC to get items or see areas in a slot I would more likely fill with someone else and level according to my taste/need.

    Rasaad is - to me - pretty useless; every role he could possibly fill in a group can be filled better by someone else. It doesn't feel natural to go through the hassle to somehow find a use for him if better options are all over the place. His personality isn't exactly my taste either.

    Neera is also useless to me except for handing over the gem bag and a robe for Xzar. There are 3 evil casters who are all better, more entertaining or both. Her personality and voice completely annoys me.
    I also think her joining doesn't match her alignment. She's supposed to be neutral, but I must fight a clearly evil group if I talk to her. (And if Edwin is in the party when that happens, he'll ask you to make a choice between him and Neera - no good NPC leaves the party because of her.) It seems she was originally meant to be a good mage - which would make perfect sense because there's only Dynaheir - and was made neutral just to have one of each alignment among the new NPCs. (And good was taken by Rasaad to also make each new NPC a class/kit not present.)
    I guess it's more an issue for evil parties, but I would prefer it if Neera's intro was handled like Garrick's and I'd have the option to be good (help her), neutral (stay out of it) or evil (side with wizards) and not be able to recruit her if I took the evil option. (Would suck for the gem bag, but the wizards could give me that - empty - as a reward for catching her or something.)
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    Actually, there is an encounter with a halfing in the north of the city that explains exactly why Neera has the bag (and why there are some gems in it).
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    Fardragon said:

    Actually, there is an encounter with a halfing in the north of the city that explains exactly why Neera has the bag (and why there are some gems in it).

    In Beregost or Baldur's Gate?
  • BigfishBigfish Member Posts: 367
    The only thing Neera has that is a really good item, you can get by recruiting and then booting her. You don't even have to go swap out the gem bag by hand, just immediately dump her if you have 7 people.

    Rasaad has that really good "cursed" belt, but you can get by without it. You're better off not dragging the yutz and his crummy stat line/proficiencys around.

    Dorn has some awesome stuff at the end of his quest chain, but nothing that makes me want to haul him around for.

    Wouldn't be so bad if you could activate their quests pretty quickly ala BG2 (swap them in, do their quest, swap them out) but the time/conversation thing is a killer.
  • AranthysAranthys Member Posts: 722

    Same here.

    I can see how it makes sense, rp-wise, for Neera to have the bag. (I haven't tried it, but I somehow doubt her wild surges create THAT many gems that it justifies an own container though). But there should also be one for sale or in a mini quest, like the scroll case. It's an essential item for every class, same as the other containers. Sure, I can kill her or recruit-remove, but there are a million roleplay reasons why someone wouldn't want to do that.

    The inability to complete quests (and mostly to get the Elven Chain) for a long time is pretty annoying. It does mess with party planning. By the time I get to the city, I usually have my party the way I want it and invested in the NPCs - the proficiencies, the weapons, armor, possibly tomes. So I'm unlikely to switch one party member out and head back to grab an earlier NPC who may have proficiencies I dislike or not need by that time. It's the same reason why the late game NPCs are so unpopular in comparison to those you can get earlier. I have to keep an NPC to get items or see areas in a slot I would more likely fill with someone else and level according to my taste/need.

    Rasaad is - to me - pretty useless; every role he could possibly fill in a group can be filled better by someone else. It doesn't feel natural to go through the hassle to somehow find a use for him if better options are all over the place. His personality isn't exactly my taste either.

    Neera is also useless to me except for handing over the gem bag and a robe for Xzar. There are 3 evil casters who are all better, more entertaining or both. Her personality and voice completely annoys me.
    I also think her joining doesn't match her alignment. She's supposed to be neutral, but I must fight a clearly evil group if I talk to her. (And if Edwin is in the party when that happens, he'll ask you to make a choice between him and Neera - no good NPC leaves the party because of her.) It seems she was originally meant to be a good mage - which would make perfect sense because there's only Dynaheir - and was made neutral just to have one of each alignment among the new NPCs. (And good was taken by Rasaad to also make each new NPC a class/kit not present.)
    I guess it's more an issue for evil parties, but I would prefer it if Neera's intro was handled like Garrick's and I'd have the option to be good (help her), neutral (stay out of it) or evil (side with wizards) and not be able to recruit her if I took the evil option. (Would suck for the gem bag, but the wizards could give me that - empty - as a reward for catching her or something.)

    Neera is actually a very fine caster.
    She's got one of the most powerful caster kits (Wild Mage) and very good stats (17 dex, 17 int) even if she's lacking in CON (But for a NPC mage, it's not that uncommon)

    Nahal's reckless dweomer + Chaos Shield turns your level 1 spells into whatever you need on the fly, with a ~50% success chance.
  • DelDel Member Posts: 44
    Bigfish said:


    Wouldn't be so bad if you could activate their quests pretty quickly ala BG2 (swap them in, do their quest, swap them out) but the time/conversation thing is a killer.

    This speaks to my last question. I was hoping to do Dorn's quest up until BG, drop him, continue with another companion, and then add him at the appropriate time to finish. Will this work?

  • BigfishBigfish Member Posts: 367
    I don't see why not.
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511

    Fardragon said:

    Actually, there is an encounter with a halfing in the north of the city that explains exactly why Neera has the bag (and why there are some gems in it).

    In Beregost or Baldur's Gate?
    Bladur's Gate. Near the northern gate.
  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747
    @Aranthys: I didn't say Neera is useless as a caster. I actually think she's a great addition - but for good parties. I didn't keep her for long (I tried, but ugh, that voice...) and as far as I can tell, she seems more chaotic good to me. Dynaheir was never very popular, so Neera is a nice alternative for good/neutral.

    However, I play almost always evil and that offers me Xzar (not the best school, but very versatile, awesome voiceset/personality for the entertainment factor, decent strength for a mage, option to dual either to cleric - which I often do - or thief - which I never do; necromancer/cleric is a spot on roleplay way, too), Edwin (useful school, extra spells, 16 con; granted he sucks horribly with ranged or melee, but why would he ever need that; divination is something I can easily do without) and now Baeloth (borderline OP, good voiceset, robe of evil arch magi, overall quite entertaining). Neera simply can't keep up with any of them, so to me, someone who plays evil and is prone to have a bard charname or NPC, she's useless. And that's fine; there are other NPCs that are useless to me and useful to others. I'd just be way more likely to at least do her quest if I could speed it up and ditch her after that. Same with Rasaad.
  • IkMarcIkMarc Member Posts: 552
    edited February 2013
    I can't really care. The only class elven chain is useful for is the bard, since robes of the archmagi are better for mages, and even the bard doesn't really need it since he will be able to cast armor raising spells on himself which will last for hours. Besides that the only bard kit you should potentially be putting on the frontline imo is blade, which has defensive spin when necessary and giving a blade Drizzt scimitar's -2AC makes up for a lot as well.
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    IkMarc said:

    I can't really care. The only class elven chain is useful for is the bard, since robes of the archmagi are better for mages, and even the bard doesn't really need it since he will be able to cast armor raising spells on himself which will last for hours. Besides that the only bard kit you should potentially be putting on the frontline imo is blade, which has defensive spin when necessary and giving a blade Drizzt scimitar's -2AC makes up for a lot as well.

    The problem I have with Drizzt's Twinkle Scimitar is that it can only be wielded by good-aligned characters, yet good-aligned characters have no business using weapons robbed from this hero, this is one of the reasons why my current Blade is Chaotic Neutral, so that I don't feel wrong for stealing Icing Death
  • DelDel Member Posts: 44
    I play a fighter/mage with longbow specialization so elven chain is definitively useful. I believe the ac is better than the armor spell by a point, it can't be dispelled or wear off, and it frees up at least 1 extra spell slot, which is very valuable for a multi-class mage.
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    Del said:

    I play a fighter/mage with longbow specialization so elven chain is definitively useful. I believe the ac is better than the armor spell by a point, it can't be dispelled or wear off, and it frees up at least 1 extra spell slot, which is very valuable for a multi-class mage.

    Though once you can get the Robes of Archmagi, which are better, it does become rather redundant for a Fighter/Mage and Thief/Mage, though not for Bard, unless you have multiple mages of the same alignment. BTW Thief/Mages can also wear elven chain, though they get a small penalty to their thieving abilitities. One of the problems at the moment is that by the time you can get the armour, your mages will likely already have the robes of archmagi.

    Also, whilst it's true that Bards can cast Armour or Shield or use the Shield Amulet, they don't have endless level 1 spells like specialist mages with the ring of wizardry, and can get caught out in ambushes, and the Shield Amulet gets expensive if used all the time.
  • DelDel Member Posts: 44
    The robes are marginally better but elven chain is much 'cooler' for an elven fighter/mage. Not to mention Dynaheir needs the robes! I suppose the value of elven chain depends upon party make-up and role play.
  • IkMarcIkMarc Member Posts: 552

    IkMarc said:

    I can't really care. The only class elven chain is useful for is the bard, since robes of the archmagi are better for mages, and even the bard doesn't really need it since he will be able to cast armor raising spells on himself which will last for hours. Besides that the only bard kit you should potentially be putting on the frontline imo is blade, which has defensive spin when necessary and giving a blade Drizzt scimitar's -2AC makes up for a lot as well.

    The problem I have with Drizzt's Twinkle Scimitar is that it can only be wielded by good-aligned characters, yet good-aligned characters have no business using weapons robbed from this hero, this is one of the reasons why my current Blade is Chaotic Neutral, so that I don't feel wrong for stealing Icing Death
    Well looking at it from a RP perspective, I believe others have already figured that your thief could pickpocket it without remorse (even when good, still being thief) and give it to CHARNAME.
  • IkMarcIkMarc Member Posts: 552
    edited February 2013
    Del said:

    Not to mention Dynaheir needs the robes!

    Didn't she die in some gnoll pitt? ;)
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    IkMarc said:

    Del said:

    Not to mention Dynaheir needs the robes!

    Didn't she die in some gnoll pitt? ;)
    She usually does in my games :-)
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    Del said:

    The robes are marginally better but elven chain is much 'cooler' for an elven fighter/mage.

    I wish it wasn't green, though!
  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    Goes nicely on a Cleric Xzar!
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