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Sorc - Vs Dragon Disp

Hello

am looking at the sorceror and dragon disp

pro vs con`s

And am a tiny bit unsure

Is the 4 spells pr level =

4 first level spells
4 second level spells ect right?

Becouse if that is the case its hardly any difference since you get few choices high level.

Or am i mistaken

Comments

  • MadhaxMadhax Member Posts: 1,416
    I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be four known spells per level, but currently it seems that the kit instead loses out on spellcasts per day. I'm currently playing a level 2 Disciple, and I'm basically wielding as many spells per day as a same-level specialist mage with a much worse selection, albeit with the option to cast any of the spells I know rather than picking them the night before.

    Disciples get up to 2 HP more per level, as well as naturally better AC, fire resist, constitution, and a breath weapon in exchange for some level of magical deficiency depending on whether the current patch implemented it correctly or not. The constitution isn't much of a benefit since Sorcerers are already so stat-independent, but the HP, AC, and FR, combined with the breath weapon, means mid- or high-level disciple should be able to wade into a melee dropping fireballs at his feet and breathing fire with abandon.

    Sounds fun to me, though perhaps not worth the lost spell slots. My overall take, after playing one for a couple hours, is that the normal Sorcerer is the superior overall class, but the Disciple is perhaps more interesting and has cooler RP potential.
  • maneromanero Member Posts: 392
    edited February 2013
    Dragon disciple is terrible and can't compare with pure Sorceress. Useless con bonus and funny breath attack is not worth less spells per day.
  • Valarian25Valarian25 Member Posts: 40
    @madhax yeah i got this feeling as well.. better RP , worse that sorc.. but sorc is owerpowered ... so .. its not a huge loss .)
  • FafnirFafnir Member Posts: 232
    Sorcerer is extremely powerful already, so I'll have no problem playing DD instead for fun.

    And dragons. But mostly fun.
  • TomeTome Member Posts: 466
    Dragon Disciple is a lot more fun IMO: the fewer spells makes it somewhat more tactical and the various bonuses are all fun to play with. As the class is stat-independent, the CON bonuses+tome can get you to 21 CON which is pretty badass in terms of regeneration. I'd like to know how they changed the hitdice on the kit too, that would be useful to know.

    Sorcerer is more powerful though-magic is so brutal in BG that extra casts are a big deal.
  • PawnSlayerPawnSlayer Member Posts: 295
    Madhax said:

    I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be four known spells per level, but currently it seems that the kit instead loses out on spellcasts per day. I'm currently playing a level 2 Disciple, and I'm basically wielding as many spells per day as a same-level specialist mage with a much worse selection, albeit with the option to cast any of the spells I know rather than picking them the night before.

    Is this true? Is the class bugged?

    Personally, I find I only need three spells at each level, the rest can be taken care of by a second mage (I always have two) and a cleric. So a DD as described has essentially no real drawbacks for me. But if progression is bugged, that's a huge problem.
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511

    Hello

    am looking at the sorceror and dragon disp

    pro vs con`s

    And am a tiny bit unsure

    Is the 4 spells pr level =

    4 first level spells
    4 second level spells ect right?

    Becouse if that is the case its hardly any difference since you get few choices high level.

    Or am i mistaken

    The kit description is simply wrong.

    Dragon Disciple simply gets to cast one fewer spell of each level per day. They can know the same number of spells as a regular sorc.

    (results from testing)
  • PawnSlayerPawnSlayer Member Posts: 295
    Fardragon said:

    Hello

    am looking at the sorceror and dragon disp

    pro vs con`s

    And am a tiny bit unsure

    Is the 4 spells pr level =

    4 first level spells
    4 second level spells ect right?

    Becouse if that is the case its hardly any difference since you get few choices high level.

    Or am i mistaken

    The kit description is simply wrong.

    Dragon Disciple simply gets to cast one fewer spell of each level per day. They can know the same number of spells as a regular sorc.

    (results from testing)
    How does your testing prove that? It proves that the description and implementation are different, but it could be that it's been implemented incorrectly, with the description being right.
  • ArchaosArchaos Member Posts: 1,421
    @manero
    Just because it's not "omfg uber" doesn't mean that it's terrible.

    And the CON bonus is not useless. It's potential and future permanent regeneration.

    The Fire Resistance can heal you with items by casting fireball on your self and there's a club in BG2 that has the potential to cast Fireball at random.

    In return, the Sorcerer becomes less overpowered and more flavorful. Oh the tragedy.
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511

    Fardragon said:

    Hello

    am looking at the sorceror and dragon disp

    pro vs con`s

    And am a tiny bit unsure

    Is the 4 spells pr level =

    4 first level spells
    4 second level spells ect right?

    Becouse if that is the case its hardly any difference since you get few choices high level.

    Or am i mistaken

    The kit description is simply wrong.

    Dragon Disciple simply gets to cast one fewer spell of each level per day. They can know the same number of spells as a regular sorc.

    (results from testing)
    How does your testing prove that? It proves that the description and implementation are different, but it could be that it's been implemented incorrectly, with the description being right.
    It proves how it works now.

    Given that the kit discription makes very little sense, I think it is most likely working how it's intended to work.
  • PugPugPugPug Member Posts: 560
    edited March 2013
    Fardragon said:

    Fardragon said:

    Hello

    am looking at the sorceror and dragon disp

    pro vs con`s

    And am a tiny bit unsure

    Is the 4 spells pr level =

    4 first level spells
    4 second level spells ect right?

    Becouse if that is the case its hardly any difference since you get few choices high level.

    Or am i mistaken

    The kit description is simply wrong.

    Dragon Disciple simply gets to cast one fewer spell of each level per day. They can know the same number of spells as a regular sorc.

    (results from testing)
    How does your testing prove that? It proves that the description and implementation are different, but it could be that it's been implemented incorrectly, with the description being right.
    It proves how it works now.

    Given that the kit discription makes very little sense, I think it is most likely working how it's intended to work.
    They said in another thread in the bug forum that the description is wrong and will be fixed in a future patch.

    If it were one fewer spell known per level, it would be hard to choose the Sorc over the DD. I sometimes wish I could have fewer spells on a Sorc anyway just to make finding them easier when casting.

    Given that it's one fewer casting/day per level, on the other hand, there's really no compelling reason to play a DD. It was a cool kit in third edition that becomes a wet fart when translated to 2E.
  • secretmantrasecretmantra Member Posts: 259
    edited March 2013
    I have a Dragon Disciple at level 2. I know 2 spells and can cast 3.

    I can cast 6 with ring of wizardry.


    So comparing to the normal Sorceror spell progression, it appears for DD it's normal amount known/level, but 1 less cast/level. Not a bad trade-off really. I might tinker with ShadowKeeper later to confirm this.

    Here's a link with a handy chart for Sorceror spell progression, for reference:
    http://playithardcore.com/pihwiki/index.php?title=Baldur's_Gate:_Progression_Charts#Sorcerer

    In general, I am really enjoying the ability of the Sorceror to cast what I want on the fly. Makes a spell caster much more robust in tactical combat.
  • bill_zagoudisbill_zagoudis Member Posts: 207
    we do not know yet if the tooltip is wrong or if the actual penalty in game is a bug

    if the tooltip is right i think disciples are a bit better, learning 4 spells per level is not that much of a drawback as you can have a wizard for the utility/situational spells

    4 casts per day is a meaningfull drawback though,breath and con are useless but you also get +2hp per lvl,+5 ac and immunity to fire,they're good bonuses,i think disciple is still preferable to mage and only a bit worse than sorc,also some new tactical options open up(such as using aoe fire spells on yourself)

    anyways discipel is good,sorc is op
  • secretmantrasecretmantra Member Posts: 259
    Tested it at level 8. Spells are 5, 3, 2, and 1 known/level, and they are 5, 5, 4, and 2 castable/level.

    So according to this test, I was right. It is normal amount known/level, but 1 less castable/level. And at level 8, she has 50% fir res., +2 AC, +1 CON, and breath weap at 4d8. Not bad at all.
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511

    we do not know yet if the tooltip is wrong or if the actual penalty in game is a bug

    Yes. There is a developer quote in the bug reporting forum. The description is wrong, the way it works currently (-1 spell per level) is correct.
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