Can we get the Druid/Mage?

Kilivitz

I'm sorry if this request has been already made around here, but I don't recall seeing any specific thread.

Is there any chance we can get the Druid/Mage as an available multiclass in a future patch and/or BG2:EE? It's a legal option according to PnP AD&D rules.

Was there any particular reason why it wasn't included in the first place?

Anyone else wants it? I hope so.

bigdogchris

Reading elsewhere that Druid/Mage was supposed to be a half-elf multi-class (like Cleric/Ranger). The reason it's not in BG may be due to limited amount of multi-class slots available (like Kits).

However, I'm not sure how accurate this is.

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Nifft

I'd play one.

I'd also like Elf Druids to be a viable class / race combo.

bigdogchris

Bhaaldog said:

I think it would be an interesting addition as a multi-class.

@bigdogchris with it being a half-elf multi-class is that a PnP restriction or something you read?

They can be Druid/Mage in 2nd Edition. Half elfs are the only race that can be multi-classed Druid. They are granted the exception, just like with Cleric/Ranger.

elminster

I support this!

bbear

Druid/mage is pretty awesome. The robe of vecna and the power amulet allows you to cast insect plague and nature's beauty instantly.

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CamDawg

Well, they're certainly possible. The problem is that new classes or multi-class combos require huge amounts of time and resources--time and resources which are, frankly, better spent elsewhere.

ZanathKariashi

Didn't stop them from adding Shadowdancer, Darkmoon monk, dwarven defender, or dragon disiciple, stuff that no one wanted or was asking for, instead of other changes that were getting a lot of support (adding the proper extra benefits for stats, proper specialist benefits/penalties/opposed schools, breaking specialists out of the kit system (where they don't belong) so they can dualed into, and adding some ACTUAL mage kits).

It's actually MUCH easier to make the legit multi-classes, since all the resources already exist (not requiring new ones like the new kits did), it's just a matter of adding the new lines to the 2das.

(F/D, D/M, D/T, R/D, F/D/M)

As for the space limits, just make a new nested tab by changing each multiclass with cleric to Priest, that has the X/Cleric and X/Druid options in it. This would eliminate the need for the fighter/druid tab, and you could combine the 3 triple classes into a Triple Class tab (F/D/M, F/C/M, F/M/T), which would free up 2 slots for future use.

And of course, fix the R/C spell-casting issues, since it's wrong anyway and undermines support for the R/D mc

CamDawg

ZanathKariashi said:

It's actually MUCH easier to make the legit multi-classes, since all the resources already exist (not requiring new ones like the new kits did), it's just a matter of adding the new lines to the 2das.

No.

Iecerint

The ToB extension thing already provides a blueprint for implementing more slots for it AFAIK.

Also applies to more kits in general.

bbear

In theory, I think the work-around is easy. Just add a kit for sorcerer, redefine some druid spells into wizard spells and add druid weapons for sorcerer. For penalty, give the kit 100% penalty in exp (multi-class -> single class).

Serpion

ZanathKariashi said:

It's actually MUCH easier to make the legit multi-classes, since all the resources already exist (not requiring new ones like the new kits did), it's just a matter of adding the new lines to the 2das.

(F/D, D/M, D/T, R/D, F/D/M)

I think problem is a "bit" biggest... At least there is a lot of stuff which should be flagged as usable or not usable for D/M. I think this is a main problem for new multiclasses.

kamuizin

CamDawg said:

Well, they're certainly possible. The problem is that new classes or multi-class combos require huge amounts of time and resources--time and resources which are, frankly, better spent elsewhere.

Sorry but i have to disagree a bit, everytime a reasonable request is made someone from the devs come and say "the resources to do this will be best spend elsewhere". In my view the lack of this option is a bug, a mistake or just a lack of content due to a hurry release of the old BG2 that no one on that time bothered in fix.

About it being hard to do, i'm no coder, but just join 2 already exist classes are really this hard?

This is one of the most reasonable and likely not hard request that i saw in this forum since i registered to membership, a single union of 2 already existent classes, there's even an empty slot in the multi-class display screen, is that really too hard to do?

Bercon

I'm a coder and it can be very hard to add stuff like that. The system was obviously not made to be flexible, so you might end up having to edit every single item, half of the effects etc. And in the end perhaps 1% of the gamers actually play as Druid/Mage making that few months development time seem pretty expensive. It doesn't matter whether its a feature, bug, missing content or whatever. If its not worth doing, changing what you call it wont help.

kamuizin

Well maybe is too dificult to Beamdog to code a game that they have produced... and 1%? From where you get that % dude? Let's eliminate all the other multi-classes also, they're hardly used, let's eliminate the barbarians also, withou being able to dual, only 1% of the customers will use them...

aldain

kamuizin said:

Well maybe is too dificult to Beamdog to code a game that they have produced... and 1%? From where you get that % dude? Let's eliminate all the other multi-classes also, they're hardly used, let's eliminate the barbarians also, withou being able to dual, only 1% of the customers will use them...

While I agree that there's a tendency to answer pretty much every feature request with "no sorry, takes too much effort", if CamDawg says that implementing a new multi-class is a gargantuan amount of work, then there's really not much point in debating it. He knows the code better than you or I ever will.

I'd love to see the Druid/Mage, both multi and dual... but if getting it implemented means a few months of no other patches, I'd have a hard time justifying it, especially given that it's something most players probably won't even use.

Nifft

I trust Beamdog employees to know more than I do about the code base.

This would be a cool combo, and I'm disappointed if it can't be implemented.

Xavioria

What @aldain and @CamDawg said were right in my opinion... from a business standpoint anyways. If it will cost more money to do than it will bring it, it makes little economic sense (if any at all) to do it. Of course, that also means, you're probably still playing a game that is STILL much like it's base which was released over ten years ago... Going back to economic sense... since we already own the game, why would a consumer buy the same thing twice?

BUT then again... we shouldn't complain, there's that enhanced multiplayer thing, right?

O wait...

kamuizin

Point taken dear @Xavioria ! People should remeber their customer position instead of beg for enhancements and say "ok..." to each "we can't/don't want" that they hear.

If the "content restriction" does not forbid this request
If the request is based on core rules of the D&D edition of the game
If is something that should already be in the game but for lazy/disinterest/mistake of the old game, it is not

Then that's a request that should be granted.

"someone can/will mod it". Then why the hell did i brought an enhanced edition?

As i said in previous threads i paid for BG EE and i will buy BG II EE, that's a fact, no matter how disappointed. If a BG III is released i will probally buy it also, but atm, for old enhanced games, that's all i intent to buy.

Draith012

They definately will have to code all the items to be either usable or unusable to your new multi class. Productivity wise, this sort of thing would be done if you have multiple classes you want to put out as your already going through the directory of items to make changes, than it would just save time and money to do these things together. So unless they plan to make another release of classes, then I don't see them doing it. Plus, I rather have real bugs fixed first before they add extra content.

PugPug

The AD&D rules allow for druid to take the place of cleric in any legal cleric multiclass.

Edit: Not counting race restrictions. If a race can be a cleric/thief but not a druid, it can't be a druid/thief.

karnor00

PugPug said:

The AD&D rules allow for druid to take the place of cleric in any legal cleric multiclass.

Edit: Not counting race restrictions. If a race can be a cleric/thief but not a druid, it can't be a druid/thief.

According to core 2ED rules (i.e. players handbook), the only multiclass option for druids is fighter/druid for half elves only.

PugPug

karnor00 said:

PugPug said:

The AD&D rules allow for druid to take the place of cleric in any legal cleric multiclass.

Edit: Not counting race restrictions. If a race can be a cleric/thief but not a druid, it can't be a druid/thief.

According to core 2ED rules (i.e. players handbook), the only multiclass option for druids is fighter/druid for half elves only.

Nope.

Find me a single copy saying that, because I've found several .pdfs of that exact book saying otherwise.

karnor00

http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/1738/54675443.jpg

Shamelessly stolen this link from Troodon80's excellent post at http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/comment/307502/#Comment_307502

kamuizin

this book is from 1989 dude, the very first year of advanced dungeons and dragons, AD&D was the new edition between the years of 1989 to 2000. Until 1995 have been new articles and books being released.

By the way, specifically in 1995 was released the Advanced Dungeons and Dragons revised series of player handbook and players option book.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Editions_of_Dungeons_&_Dragons

TheGreatKhan

I'm no coder either so ill take their word on it. I NEVER assume something is easy to do just because it sounds like it. I'd like to see Druid mage eventually but I prefer other things first.