Best party (IWD style)
So with my continued defeats at the hands of Davidw's nefarious SCS mod I've decided to attempt a few no-reload runs with full custom parties just to up my chances a little bit.
My first attempt pre-2014 was:
Fighter/illusionist charname
Blade
Avenger
Cleric/thief
Berserker (7)/thief
Inquisitor
With archery being fixed I can finally try the archer build I've wanted to do:
Swashbuckler (5)/fighter archer (longsword/bow)
What do you think is the absolute best possible party for completing BG1 from start to finish?
My first attempt pre-2014 was:
Fighter/illusionist charname
Blade
Avenger
Cleric/thief
Berserker (7)/thief
Inquisitor
With archery being fixed I can finally try the archer build I've wanted to do:
Swashbuckler (5)/fighter archer (longsword/bow)
What do you think is the absolute best possible party for completing BG1 from start to finish?
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Comments
Cavalier/Inquisitor - Immunities to a lot of BG1 stuff or destruction of mages. Tank and leader.
Archer Ranger - Archery rules supreme in BG1 and the Archer is awesome at it. Especially if Elven.
Sorcerer - No scrolls required, no failures to memorize spells, spam at will. Imp familiar for polymorph?
Cleric/Thief - Multiclass. Maybe Half-Orc with 19 STR to be extra brutal or whatever.
Kensai/Mage - Dual. Probably the most infamous dual-class combination, since it's pure cheese. Two katanas.
Totemic Druid - Overpowered free summons (immune to normal weapons), fast levelling, secondary healer/summoner/buffer etc.
This is the party I would make, personally. I can't think of a more powergaming party that fills all roles.
Berserker (Human) +++ Two-Handed Sword ++ Two-Handed Weapons + Cross Bow
Fighter / Thief (Half-Orc) ++ Quarter Staff ++ Two-Handed Weapons ++ Longbow
Fighter / Cleric (Dwarf) ++ Hammer +++ Dual Wielding + Sling
Cleric / Ranger (Half-Elf) ++ Mace +++ Dual Wielding ++ Flails + Sling
Wild Mage (Elf) +Dagger +Single Weapon Style +Darts
Fighter / Mage / Thief (Elf) ++ Single Weapon Style ++ Long Sword ++ Long Bow
Re: Paladin: Those 2 paladin kits are definitely awesome. Almost good enough to take 1 of each.
Re: Archer: I was thinking that a Swashbuckler (5)/fighter with GM in longbows would be a better archer and more useful besides?
Re: Sorcerer: Sorcerer is great but I think it conflicts with the general rule that multi class > single class. Ymmv.
Re: Cleric/thief: I love this class with staff action! I prefer gnome though for saves as strength isn't multiplied in backstabs and clerics can get 19+ strength easily.
Re: Kensei/Mage: I can't see a kensei/Mage being better than a berserker/Mage or fighter/illusionist in BG1.
Re: Totemic Druid: Druids rule with level 10 whichever way you go.
@Debaser
Beserker (7)/x (8+) > berserker (8)?
Druid with level 5 spells > ranger/cleric
Dual F (berserker)/T with GM > Horc F/T?
Some great ideas here.
Berserker
Archer
Archer
Cleric/Ranger
Sorcerer
I almost want to say skip Cross bow and give the Zerker Mastery. ++++
As for a straight druid, I respectfully disagree...the cleric / ranger multi-class wins due to the better attacks / melee potential. The truth is since he gets two ++ in dual wielding for free he becomes a terror at the start of the game with the Stupifier. Give the Fighter Cleric Ashadeena as a mainhand from there and you have two strong tanks who can use shields or two weapons.
Everyone wants to bug out about the R/C having access to Druid spells but honestly no one else in the first thee levels has as much melee potential.
Even though it takes longer to cap out and you're spell power is limited a bit the wild mage should even it out. (Substitue with Conjurer if you like)
I know the Cavalier is def stronger at low levels, but over time I think the Zerzer wins for sheer brutality / APR and grand mastery.
Blackguard is also a great choice...but again...I am partial to Zerker.
Cleric/mage (charname) flails & slings
HalfOrc Fighter/thief 2hSwords&quaterstaff
Cleric/ranger flails & hammers
Then
Viconia,imoen and any random npc for quests
You could change them for
Archer, illusionist/thief and a fighter/mage dual class.
There are many effective combos.
I like only three player characters as tbh these three can take most things by themselves, and i like all the new quests and stuff
1. Half-Elf Ranger/Cleric - Maces, Slings
2. Gnome Fighter/Illusionist - Two-Handed Swords, Longbows, Quarterstaves
3. Gnome Fighter/Illusionist - Spears, Crossbows, Quarterstaves
4. Gnome Fighter/Illusionist - Axes, Longbows, Clubs
5. Half-Elf Fighter/Mage/Thief - Longswords, Shortbows, Flails
6. Gnome Cleric/Illusionist - Hammers, Slings
Notable advantages:
1. Everyone can wear a helmet. No getting crit!
2. Almost everyone gets weapon specialization and APR from it.
3. Everyone can cast spells. So many spells! 5 Mages and 2 Clerics! And one cleric has druid spells!
4. Not much in thieving skills, but enough; with 100 in find traps and 50 in open locks, you can disarm all traps and open most locks. Potions can help for what you can't open, and with so much spellcasting you can afford to Knock your way through the rest.
5. 4/6 shorty saves. Enemy spells are a lot less likely to take hold.
6. You can have any number of your characters on the front lines or slinging spells or firing missiles effectively from one situation to another.
7. Armor. Everyone can wear heavy armor.
8. 4/5 Mages w/ 19 Int. For those on Core+ rules, this means less learning failures.
Notable disadvantages:
1. No berserking. Comparing my BP run with this group against my run with 2 berserkers, the difference in the early game is incredible, and the late game treated these guys only a little better. 'Zerking makes a huge difference.
2. Not much in thieving skills. It's enough to get by, but there's more that can be had from skills.
3. Only the tri-class character can cast Horror.
4. With all the multis, experience is going to come slower.
5. Spell scrolls. At 5 mages, obtaining and assigning scrolls becomes something that requires thought.
6. Armor. This is a good party for learning how to switch equipment around, specifically armor. You'd likely want to have most of them wearing heavy armor at first, maybe keeping a couple unarmored and casting spells and switching characters in and out as their spells are used up. Also, there are only so many Archmagi robes to go around. Though with a very specific alignment set, you can almost get enough.
7. So many gnomes! Why must they be so powerful? Or rather, why can't other races be as powerful?
And maybe some other things I missed.
It's slow to start, and missing some powerful kit abilities. Still, I rather like this group. At first glance, it may seem rather monotonous and bland. However, it allows for a great deal of variety. The fighters can use any weapon and any armor, and the mages can use most spells and a fair number of them. The customization options are huge. And remember, when in trouble, 30 magic missiles (via sequencer at level ~5) or 10 chromatic orbs are likely to ruin anyone's day.
Mikeli Magebane– Inquisitor - Two handed sword.
Tambul Twohand - Halfling Barbarian - dual weilding Bastard Sword/Hammer
Axel – Dwarf WS - Axe
Baila Bearspeak - Beastmaster 3 > Cleric - Staff or club/shield (and charmed bears when the opportunity arises)
Tarmin Trapmaster Gnome C/T Stupifier or sling
Olin Oakbow elf – Archer - Longbow/ Long sword
Skald
Cleric
Assassin
Enchanter (extra sleep spells)
Undead Hunter
Barbarian 15 -> Cleric
Kensai 13 -> Mage
Kensai 13 -> Mage
Swashbuckler 25 -> Fighter
Inquisitor
*my setup is the following: Ascension, Tactics, SCSII with pretty much all mod settings on maximum difficulty (including maximum HP rolls for enemies), on "Insane" game difficulty.
I am also using several other mods such as ItemUpgrade, which may skew results a little bit due to the higher availability of good +5 weapons. Given how poorly the vanilla game is itemized though (especially in terms of weapon types), I like having a little more options.
The high-level thief dual-class was a bit of an experiment, but I've quite grown to like it. The damage bonuses you get from Swashbuckler are pretty amazing, and you also get UAI; that makes it better than Fighter/Thief multi imo, since many enemies are immune to backstabs and/or traps with my setup. Besides, I'd rather be a 25 Thief/40 Fighter than a 30 Thief/30 Fighter at end game (more HP, more Critical Strike HLA).
Kensai->Mage is incredibly (over?)powerful. Any enemy not immune to Time Stop is completely destroyed by a K->M popping it with Kai on 10 APR. Those that are immune to TS can't do a lot either against a PfMW/Stoneskin/Spell Immunity killing machine... Definitely the highest sustained damage dealer I have found so far.
Inquisitor is something I have found trouble living without especially on the lower levels. Any form of CC basically kills you if it lands at that stage; very frustrating to deal with! An Inquisitor also helps by not having to skip all liches in the game until your mages are high enough to be able to dispel them. Given how many dual-classes I run, this adds a lot of convenience. Contrary to popular belief though, Inquistor dispel (even at native x2 level) is not an auto-win button. At higher levels I mainly use the Inquisitor for True Sight and Carsomyr.
The Barbarian dual class is an option allowed by SCSII, but not in the vanilla game - for whatever reason, since Barbarians are actually coded as a fighter kit within the engine, and PnP also allows Barbarians to dual -class. Definitely better than Berserker because of HP, speed, and damage resistances, as well as slightly better Rage (imo). I tried living without Cleric, but the buffs are just too good, even at the cost of some offensive power. Turn Undead also gets fairly ridiculous once you start killing liches with it... I dual at 15 to pick up some extra damage resistance, which is very strong when paired with Defender of Easthaven and Armor of Faith (also Roranach's Horn on certain fights). If you want to be TRULY ridiculous, make a barb->cleric out of Jan and use his special armor...
As for weapon choices, nothing beats the +APR dual-wield setups. It's a large part of why I chose to make the Swash 25 dual, using Scarlet Ninja-to with UAI. That gives max APR (5) to the Kensais and the Swashbuckler, for maximum offensive potential.
I found that other than in situations where you need to do a lot of area damage, attacking is better damage than spellcasting. That is why I don't have a dedicated offensive caster (i.e. Sorcerer) and so many dual-classes.
Dual-classes in general are pretty powerful, especially if they contain Fighters. A Fighter's useful level progression caps very quickly - their HP bonus stops at lvl10, their APR bonus at 13. A caster (arcane or divine) on the other hand will continue to gain more spells well into their 30s. Fairly obvious how that makes dual-class the option of choice! I could probably reach maximum levels even with multi-class, but I'm not sure the loss of kit abilities would be worth it, considering Kensai and Swashbuckler are among the best kits in the game (if not the best) in terms of damage potential.
Your mileage may vary with the mods/difficulty setting, though. Given how many options there are to customize your game, I think there can't be a DEFINITIVE answer to most questions of relative power. That's why I went into some of the details behind my decisions; hopefully that can help you with your own choices, too!
Sidenote I: I use single player, with the game's NPCs - but I modify them in SK to be whatever I want them to be. I don't want to miss out on all the banter after all, and single player also runs much more smoothly than multi player.
Sidenote II: I like to use the Solaufein mod from time to time, both because I like drow, and because it adds a very tough fight (The Eclipse); bear in mind though that Solaufein's Tsuki-no-Ken+5 sword (quest reward) is perhaps *the* most overpowered weapon I have seen so far. Use at your own discretion.
That first attempt sounds like an interesting team. I am curious what issues you had with them. My initial thought is it seems you were a bit underpowered in terms of arcane and ranged firepower.
Below is my attempt in BG EE so far. I left a couple of slots open for default NPCs, just for variety and banter. My team:
•Elf Swashbuckler
(Scimitar and shortbow for now, will dual-wield scimitars as profs allow.)
•Human Berserker
(Dual-wields warhammers. Maybe dual class to Cleric later, but not until BG2, so whatever.)
•Elf Archer
(Spec = longbow. Most consistent and deadly damage-dealer so far.)
•Human Dragon Disciple
(With ring of wiz is a magic missile and spook spammer. Uses darts when out of spells. Looking forward to being able to breathe fire later ...)
•Half-Elf Wild Mage
(NEERA. Just trying her out. Not sure if I'll keep her in or not.)
•Half-Elf Fighter / Druid
(JAHEIRA. Nice thing is she can wear decent armor and with her decent CON, can tank as needed. Might swap her out for Viconia or Branwen later. Haven't decided.)
So far, this party is tremendous fun. I wouldn't call it the most powerful by any stretch, but they get the job done, for sure. Having missile weapons usable by most party members seems very important for random encounters.
I think that's just my playstyle: lazy. If I can just let my party AI chunk everything then I do. I consciously omitted an archer due to the APR bug and haven't felt a pressing need for a pure arcane when a multi/dual/bard can fill the same role but accomplish other things as well.
The only really compelling reason for a pure arcane is earlier fireballs or whatever but wands work well enough.
That said I generally want at least 2 arcanes in any party and the first group had an avenger as well for extra nukeage.
- "Liz'zt" Drow (female) Cleric of Tempus (should have chosen Bane for the quest), 18 Str self-buffing melee tank
- "Aria" Human Bard / Fighter 4 focused on Archery, was an incredible damage-dealer once she got Weapon Spec Bows, but I didn't go for more than 1 level of Fighter until she hit Bard 11 for the best song in the game
- "Slave Boy" Drow (male) Rogue 1 / Wizard also focused on Archery
- "Slave Girl" Deep Gnome Druid, summoner and melee tank
Their backstory is that Aria was a down-on-her-luck charlatan who ran into Liz'zt in the back alleys of Luskan. Aria is the group face, Liz'zt and her slaves are the muscle, and together they abuse everyone they come across, for fun and profit both.