@PawnSlayer: aren't you forgetting the Arrows of Piercing? They hit at +4 and are available all the way from BG1 to ToB.
They hit with +4 Thaco, but they don't actually hit as +4 magical weapons that I'm aware of (you can get those early in BG1 and the game wouldn't give +4 weapons so early)
My Blackguard uses crossbows, because I picture him just suddenly shooting somebody who thought they were going to get off easy. Like, he'd flash a winning smile to his party and be all "ah, okay, well he surrenders, so I guess we need to let him go-" *THWIP!**Dead* It is harder to imagine this effect without a loaded crossbow on your belt.
@PawnSlayer: aren't you forgetting the Arrows of Piercing? They hit at +4 and are available all the way from BG1 to ToB.
They hit with +4 Thaco, but they don't actually hit as +4 magical weapons that I'm aware of (you can get those early in BG1 and the game wouldn't give +4 weapons so early)
This was my understanding too, but I could be wrong - can anyone confirm?
My Blackguard uses crossbows, because I picture him just suddenly shooting somebody who thought they were going to get off easy. Like, he'd flash a winning smile to his party and be all "ah, okay, well he surrenders, so I guess we need to let him go-" *THWIP!**Dead* It is harder to imagine this effect without a loaded crossbow on your belt.
I've always thought it would be nice for flavour if there were one-handed "pistol" crossbows available in the underdark that did reduced physical damage (and had shorter range), but which automatically applied a mild poison effect :-)
I keep meaning to go with a crossbow at some point just to use the one you can get from Aldeth's brother in BG.
It's not always as useful as it looks. The Heavy Crossbow of Accuracy +5 is mainly beneficial to crossbow-users who don't have a very good THAC0, because its enormous +5 to THAC0 will regularly turn a miss into a hit. For warrior classes, who should quickly gain a good enough THAC0 to be able to score a hit without so much help, the Light Crossbow of Speed +1 is more advantageous because its extra attack per round will regularly be an extra hit.
Only warrior classes can equip it in the first place, making it rather inferior in general. It's more reflective of how crappy xbows are when compared to other ranged due to lower APR. the speed one is the only good one. I tend to have Imoen use it for flavor, but its basically an inferior bow.
My Blackguard uses crossbows, because I picture him just suddenly shooting somebody who thought they were going to get off easy. Like, he'd flash a winning smile to his party and be all "ah, okay, well he surrenders, so I guess we need to let him go-" *THWIP!**Dead* It is harder to imagine this effect without a loaded crossbow on your belt.
I've always thought it would be nice for flavour if there were one-handed "pistol" crossbows available in the underdark that did reduced physical damage (and had shorter range), but which automatically applied a mild poison effect :-)
Well that and pain-giving whips...
I've always thought this too. I've editted item files to allow Viconia to use crossbows for some Drow crossbow flavor.
I keep meaning to go with a crossbow at some point just to use the one you can get from Aldeth's brother in BG.
It's not always as useful as it looks. The Heavy Crossbow of Accuracy +5 is mainly beneficial to crossbow-users who don't have a very good THAC0, because its enormous +5 to THAC0 will regularly turn a miss into a hit. For warrior classes, who should quickly gain a good enough THAC0 to be able to score a hit without so much help, the Light Crossbow of Speed +1 is more advantageous because its extra attack per round will regularly be an extra hit.
Only warrior classes can equip it in the first place, making it rather inferior in general. It's more reflective of how crappy xbows are when compared to other ranged due to lower APR. the speed one is the only good one. I tend to have Imoen use it for flavor, but its basically an inferior bow.
Edit: also it's nice using the bolts u find.
As it should be. IRL, the advantage of the crossbow was mainly that it could be used by masses of quickly trained troops, or even knights who want to spend most of their time with more manly weapons or practicing their horsemanship. Bows, especially long bows, are far better weapons, but require many years of training and physical conditioning to be very good with. I've even known DMs who required two pips for basic long bow proficiency; I think that's actually taking it too far (from a game mechanic/balancing perspective) but I do understand the thinking behind it.
In vanilla BG, the Eagle Bow (Short Bow +2) applies a Strength damage bonus. That's a better option than Longbow if you have high Strength. Don't know if the Strength damage bonus is in BG:EE though.
@PawnSlayer: aren't you forgetting the Arrows of Piercing? They hit at +4 and are available all the way from BG1 to ToB.
They hit with +4 Thaco, but they don't actually hit as +4 magical weapons that I'm aware of (you can get those early in BG1 and the game wouldn't give +4 weapons so early)
This was my understanding too, but I could be wrong - can anyone confirm?
Not 100% sure for BGEE, but for BG2 + Fixpack, they're flagged as +1 enchantment. In fact, none of the special arrows are flagged over +1 (most are non-magical), and the only way to get better enchanted arrows is to use the +2 and +3 arrows. Same for bullets and bolts.
I always felt like this was the primary reason why Ranged Weapons felt very weak in BG2 and especially ToB (besides the obvious damage nerf to fire/ice arrows). Even as an Archer, you may hit like a boss, but if those arrows don't hit, it's pretty worthless.
EDIT: I'll like to add that Firetooth does fairly significant base damage with their +5 magic arrows (unlimited to boot), so that's a very solid weapon for ToB, despite its lower APR. Also, not sure if it's a bug or feature, but unlimited ammo type weapons like Sling of Everard, Gesen Bow, and Firetooth stack their unlimited ammo damage to the equipped ammo. If you don't need a high enchanted weapon/ammo to hit something, they do pretty amazing damage in BG2, because you're basically doubling up on your ammo damage.
@PawnSlayer: aren't you forgetting the Arrows of Piercing? They hit at +4 and are available all the way from BG1 to ToB.
They hit with +4 Thaco, but they don't actually hit as +4 magical weapons that I'm aware of (you can get those early in BG1 and the game wouldn't give +4 weapons so early)
This was my understanding too, but I could be wrong - can anyone confirm?
Not 100% sure for BGEE, but for BG2 + Fixpack, they're flagged as +1 enchantment. In fact, none of the special arrows are flagged over +1 (most are non-magical), and the only way to get better enchanted arrows is to use the +2 and +3 arrows. Same for bullets and bolts.
I always felt like this was the primary reason why Ranged Weapons felt very weak in BG2 and especially ToB (besides the obvious damage nerf to fire/ice arrows). Even as an Archer, you may hit like a boss, but if those arrows don't hit, it's pretty worthless.
I'm pretty sure that's what they are. As I've said, three ranged weapons can hit better than +3, those being the bows (two short, one cross) that don't require ammo, and they are incredibly slow.
In vanilla BG, the Eagle Bow (Short Bow +2) applies a Strength damage bonus. That's a better option than Longbow if you have high Strength. Don't know if the Strength damage bonus is in BG:EE though.
There really is no reason not to take Longbow in BG1 from a gameplay aspect at least. You get to have high apr, damage and nice thac0 even at the beginning of the game when characters are disgustingly weak. Composite Longbows make it even easier, especially considering you get to buy a +1 early. They are amazing at disrupting spellcasters, and with Arrows of Detonation you get to be an engine of mass destruction capable of throwing 3-4 fireballs/round. Oh, and you also get Arrows of Dispelling, which instantly dispel all of a mage's protections with no save, so yeah...
I keep meaning to go with a crossbow at some point just to use the one you can get from Aldeth's brother in BG.
It's not always as useful as it looks. The Heavy Crossbow of Accuracy +5 is mainly beneficial to crossbow-users who don't have a very good THAC0, because its enormous +5 to THAC0 will regularly turn a miss into a hit. For warrior classes, who should quickly gain a good enough THAC0 to be able to score a hit without so much help, the Light Crossbow of Speed +1 is more advantageous because its extra attack per round will regularly be an extra hit.
Only warrior classes can equip it in the first place, making it rather inferior in general. It's more reflective of how crappy xbows are when compared to other ranged due to lower APR. the speed one is the only good one. I tend to have Imoen use it for flavor, but its basically an inferior bow.
Edit: also it's nice using the bolts u find.
Not just warriors: Bards can also use heavy crossbows, and their THAC0 progression isn't great, so they need more help from their equipment. Thus the Heavy Crossbow of Accuracy is a good choice for a Bard, arguably the best available weapon for a Bard - he'll only get 1 APR, but that'll often be 1 hit-per-round, which beats 2 misses-per-round from a bow.
But the OP question was about Fighters, and the only crossbow which makes long-term sense for a Fighter is the Light Crossbow of Speed. Since that's a unique item, the message is that there is sense in having 1 crossbow-user in your party, who might be either a warrior or a rogue, but 2 crossbow-users will generally be a mistake (unless you have a Bard).
I keep meaning to go with a crossbow at some point just to use the one you can get from Aldeth's brother in BG.
It's not always as useful as it looks. The Heavy Crossbow of Accuracy +5 is mainly beneficial to crossbow-users who don't have a very good THAC0, because its enormous +5 to THAC0 will regularly turn a miss into a hit. For warrior classes, who should quickly gain a good enough THAC0 to be able to score a hit without so much help, the Light Crossbow of Speed +1 is more advantageous because its extra attack per round will regularly be an extra hit.
Only warrior classes can equip it in the first place, making it rather inferior in general. It's more reflective of how crappy xbows are when compared to other ranged due to lower APR. the speed one is the only good one. I tend to have Imoen use it for flavor, but its basically an inferior bow.
Edit: also it's nice using the bolts u find.
Not just warriors: Bards can also use heavy crossbows, and their THAC0 progression isn't great, so they need more help from their equipment. Thus the Heavy Crossbow of Accuracy is a good choice for a Bard, arguably the best available weapon for a Bard - he'll only get 1 APR, but that'll often be 1 hit-per-round, which beats 2 misses-per-round from a bow.
My Blade will use the Heavy Crossbow of Accuracy for two reasons:
1) He has *no* pips in ranged weapons, as they've all gone into scimitars or dual-wield, so he needs all the help he can get to hit something
2) He gets 2APR with the heavy crossbow and max damage (+2) with every hit (at +2 THAC0) under Offensive Spin
@Oxford_Guy: yes, that's a pretty good justification. Perhaps for clarity I should have said "Bards and Bard-kits", since obviously the argument for crossbows applies to the Bard-kits as well. And perhaps most especially to a Blade, since using Offensive Spin to squeeze 2 APR out of the HCoA makes it a really good weapon in that situation.
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Well that and pain-giving whips...
Edit: also it's nice using the bolts u find.
Bows, especially long bows, are far better weapons, but require many years of training and physical conditioning to be very good with. I've even known DMs who required two pips for basic long bow proficiency; I think that's actually taking it too far (from a game mechanic/balancing perspective) but I do understand the thinking behind it.
I always felt like this was the primary reason why Ranged Weapons felt very weak in BG2 and especially ToB (besides the obvious damage nerf to fire/ice arrows). Even as an Archer, you may hit like a boss, but if those arrows don't hit, it's pretty worthless.
EDIT: I'll like to add that Firetooth does fairly significant base damage with their +5 magic arrows (unlimited to boot), so that's a very solid weapon for ToB, despite its lower APR. Also, not sure if it's a bug or feature, but unlimited ammo type weapons like Sling of Everard, Gesen Bow, and Firetooth stack their unlimited ammo damage to the equipped ammo. If you don't need a high enchanted weapon/ammo to hit something, they do pretty amazing damage in BG2, because you're basically doubling up on your ammo damage.
Composite Longbows make it even easier, especially considering you get to buy a +1 early.
They are amazing at disrupting spellcasters, and with Arrows of Detonation you get to be an engine of mass destruction capable of throwing 3-4 fireballs/round. Oh, and you also get Arrows of Dispelling, which instantly dispel all of a mage's protections with no save, so yeah...
But the OP question was about Fighters, and the only crossbow which makes long-term sense for a Fighter is the Light Crossbow of Speed. Since that's a unique item, the message is that there is sense in having 1 crossbow-user in your party, who might be either a warrior or a rogue, but 2 crossbow-users will generally be a mistake (unless you have a Bard).
1) He has *no* pips in ranged weapons, as they've all gone into scimitars or dual-wield, so he needs all the help he can get to hit something
2) He gets 2APR with the heavy crossbow and max damage (+2) with every hit (at +2 THAC0) under Offensive Spin
3 APR...nuff said