Evil party without thief? (some spoilers)

pmpk82

I'd like to hear your opinion on my party composition for an evil run...

Since most of my runs were with good aligned party - just once I had an evil dwarven fighter - I wanted to try something different.
I would really like to try the new guys, and would generally like to prepare a pretty strong evil group.

So, my picks for my party are:

Kagain - main tank, heavy armor with shield and gauntlets of dexterity (and Rasaad belt preferably - but I don't know if I will be able to do his quest RP wise)
Dorn - second tank, two handed swords - had him in a party for just a moment in previous run, a must have
Viconia - healer and support
Baeloth - haven't tried him yet - a must have
Edwin - great character and I love to have magic heavy groups

So, that leaves me with CHARNAME, and it seams obvious that he needs to be a thief...
I decided on human SD, and plan on dualing him to mage at level 12 in BG2EE.

The problem is, once I started playing (So far I'm level 4 with Viconia and Kagain) I realized probably won't have enough skill points to invest in anything else than my hiding skills (in order to use SD kit fully).

So what do you think would be the best option:
- stick with this composition and try to beat the game pretty much without a thief?
- replace someone with Monty (but I really like above NPC composition...)?
- spend some points of my SD to find traps, and rely on potions and spells (but ASAIK Knock is available quite late)?

Any other ideas?

DetroitRedWings25

well obviously first and foremost its your call, making it through the game without a thief is posible though much more difficult, Monty is a decent thief, also Shar Teel is a good thief if you duel class her for ultimate end game power dual her at 6 but that will leave you thiefless for a good chunk of time so dualing her earlier is handy too.

Fardragon

It depends - on if you intend to do Durlag's Tower or not.

pmpk82

Yes... I want to do everything - Durlag's Tower included:)

shawne

I would recommend substituting Shar-Teel for Kagain - she has higher STR and DEX, and can be dual-classed into a most efficient Thief. And unlike Montaron and your Shadowdancer PC, she has the full amount of Thief points which you can divide into lockpicking and finding traps...

Wanderon

I've never dualed Shar-teel (never really used her much) but Monty is a decent thief and after gaining a few levels can do some tanking as well and make a good swap for Kagain - for that matter Imoen adjusts pretty well to an evil group too but obviously isn't going to replace Kagain for tanking.

Frosty

Well you can use Dorn to bash open many locks, Kagain can take a lot of trap damage. Viconia can find traps with magic. and you can just summon things and send then threw traps to set them off.

Astafas

You really have a lot of mage power with both Edwin and Baeloth. No need for you to dual. Or replace any one of them with Montaron, a dualled Shar-Teel or Tiax.

Also, while two tanks are nice, it's not at all necessary. I would prefer one tank and one ranged any day (any one of Montaron and Shar-Teel could manage that).

KidCarnival

Summons will not trigger traps.

I would probably replace Kagain with Montaron. Monty can frontline and you get him early enough to focus the thief skills on traps/locks. There's a Knock scroll, but it's not available before Cloakwood, so you would have to depend on Dorn bashing locks open if you decide to not take Monty or Shar-Teel (both also make good frontliners, but I would say Monty is closer to a tank).
There's also the option - though late - to take Tiax instead of Viconia. You'd still have a cleric, and add a thief. It's likely he won't have 100/100 locks/traps when you get him, but at least higher than your charname, so you could handle Durlag's with potions.

FinneousPJ

Well, you only need to invest in MS, don't waste points in Hide. Remember you can find items that boost stealth.

Calmar

Without a thief you cannot raid the tombs beneath Candlekeep, can you?

Tyranus

I would suggest a Half-Orc Fighter/Thief multi. You can focus on daggers and do massive support damage

jammin

My favourite party so far:

PC Neutral Evil Jester (Longbow's + Halberd)
Dorn (Main Tank)
Viconia (Second Tank)
Montaron (Thief/Ranged/Third Tank/Backstabber)
Baeloth
Edwin

Slinging Fireballs and Skulltraps everywhere.
Could swap Shar-Teel for Montaron but my first play-through with Montaron and he is a great utility character.

wadce

gotta ask have you taken into account + HiS items (shadow armor) and Boots of stealth?

Also don;t forget you can load mages up with knock and skimp on the Lock picking,

who likes melf's acid arrow anyways

pmpk82

I know that replacing Kagain would be perhaps most natural option, but I like him as a tank that pretty much can take anything so I will rather keep him.

@Astafas
I plan to dual at level 12 (if I get this far, that is), so I will be in BG2EE already, and ASAIK Baeloth won't be available then. Even if there was another evil mage, I don't think you can have too many mages in BG2:)

@KidCarnival
Tiax...? Yes, I think that's just crazy enough to work:).
I could dump Viconia (I'm evil, right?) and take him. But just before doing that I could still run Rasaad quest - I've already had some fun with him paying him for beating up a guy in Nashkel, so perhaps my evil party could do this just for fun...

@FinneousPJ
I've read that all I really need is MS, but I still put some points in HITS, for RP purposes, as well because perhaps in BG2EE (or next patch?) this mechanics will be modified to be more realistic

KidCarnival

I had Tiax as main thief in Durlag's (assassin charname had lower traps/locks) and with the potions of perception from the merchant and master thievery from the warden level, it worked perfectly. His summon also came in handy for the basilisks on the roof. I guess you would have to also take some healing potions, but it shouldn't be a problem.