There is a ring somewhat similar to the evermemory ring for clerics/druids. You get it from Mulahey and it allows 1 extra 1-4 level spells. Right now the bard class is the only casting class without a way to augment magical abilities.
Given that every arcane caster (minus the bards) are specialists they get a bonus spell/level anyway, let's not get into the Edwin thing here, but they can't hit the broad side of a barn without spells Sure a few of the level 1 spells are awesome (blindness, spook, and even magic missile come to mind). The priest classes all have crappy Wisdom scores with very few of them receiving bonus spells (druids don't even have a viable 2nd level spell selection, clerics are ok with hold person being the major stand out, but it only works on humanoids).
Bards (since they allowed kits) really have nothing to argue about as they either get a free super buff, an free enemy disabler, or can become really good at fighting, not to mention the ability to steal back sold wands/items fully recharged, or wear armor, use decent weapons, identify magical items for free, cast some spells at higher levels than mages, and have more HP than mages. Oh, they also get to use all the wands.
Is there a reason to have the developers change it? Maybe, but is it really a game breaker? A lot of people already hate on bards, but they are already very powerful characters.
There's also more than enough Bard Only equipment to balance it out. It'd be nice to get a ton of level one spells with a bard, but its not really necessary for balance. A vanilla mage only gets ONE level one spell to start. Two if they specialize and take a big penalty for that. At least bards can put boot to butt if necessary. Mages need to stand back and sling bullets.
Personally I ONLY play Wizards in the game. I know how limited they are. Sure, they get spells that rock the board such as sleep and web, but they are one shot. Cast them and they are done. And you'd better save them for when they are going to make the most impact or you will regret it. I think they need something extra like the ring of wizardry. Bards really don't need it to be useful.
Don't get me wrong, I love my Wizard and would play one even without the ring. It just helps the ADD in me to actually be able to do something more than once a combat.
I really don't like the idea of trying so hard to make everything "equal". Bards are supposed to be dabblers and not serious students of magic (per 2E core rules), I wouldn't want them to have too many benefits as spell casters. They are plenty awesome just the way they are. But whatever class you choose will involve trade offs and sacrifice. With Bards, you get an easy experience table and great weapons selection. But you won't get the broader spell casting ability of an actual Mage or the ability to use certain Mage specific items. There are already plenty of Bard specific items in the game, I see no need for more.
Bards can use the amulet of metaspell influence though can't they? So theres that...
I think bards are fun to use though the stuff they get in Icewind Dale (with HoF expansion installed) makes them strong enough to pull their weight. The skald song is pretty powerful though so if you have that available it makes a big difference in BG1.
Basically my stance is... they don't need extra spells, but more bard instruments would be nice : D
I really don't like the idea of trying so hard to make everything "equal". Bards are supposed to be dabblers and not serious students of magic (per 2E core rules), I wouldn't want them to have too many benefits as spell casters. They are plenty awesome just the way they are. But whatever class you choose will involve trade offs and sacrifice. With Bards, you get an easy experience table and great weapons selection. But you won't get the broader spell casting ability of an actual Mage or the ability to use certain Mage specific items. There are already plenty of Bard specific items in the game, I see no need for more.
One of the great things I always enjoyed about Advanced and 2E was that the balance wasn't so much on individual balancing and fairness, but more on party balance. If you had the cannon party of three warrior types and one each of mage, cleric and thief, you should be able to handle just about any level appropriate challenge. Yeah, your mage didn't contribute to every combat. Yeah your Thief didn't do anywhere near as much damage as your Fighters (till much later). Yeah, your Cleric was a buff/healing bot. But everyone had fun and played. That mainly went away in 3E and higher.
But I honestly think that table top D&D and Roleplaying in general is more about sitting around a table until all hours of the night gaming than who's character was the most used or useful. You were role playing your character and that took up time and energy. Even if you didn't get MVP for every single battle, you still had loads to do. And if you didn't enjoy the personality you portrayed, that more than your 'Power' made you want to play something else.
Personally I would always play party mage. Most combat rounds I would make some silly noise and duck and cover while the heavies in the group went at the baddies. That was fun to me. Then in one campaign, I was introduced into a party of 8-10th level characters as a 5th level wizard. Inside two weeks I had the group believing that I was 12th level and more powerful than the rest combined. THAT was role playing.
BG is a fun and awesome game all around. But it (and any CRPG) loses out on the true Role playing aspects because they don't have that level of interaction (IMHO).
As @subtledoctor pointed out, in AD&D 2e the Bard is pretty much a mishmash of abilities from distinct classes (some Thief skills, arcane spellcasting, freedom to use any weapons) with a few unique things thrown in (advanced lore, singing).
I agree that Bards should be able to use Evermemory instead of Sorcerers. If the item description makes it clear that it helps a wizard MEMORIZE more spells, I don't see why it should help a Sorcerer channeling more power everyday.
Magic Missile is a very good spell in BG1 (at level 9). It's not a good thing to allow bards to cast this spell as much as mages, since they gain XP much faster.
Or at least create another ring of Bardry that gives other bonuses. But not level 1 spell slot x 2.
Bards are not scholars but jack of all trades. They gained they limited magical strength as well as their thieving abilities by living and wandering, not by studying the knowledge of arcane magic as mages do.
Then, they should not be able to use evermemory (until HLA : Use all items - if they have it, because it epitomizes their ability to adapt and become a true jack of all trade).
It would be unbalanced for the ring of wizardry to work with bards. The bard class is already incredibly useful and the fact it can cast chromatic orbs petrification bonus, why tip the scales? If your going to complain about classes look at the most broken like shapechanger and wizard slayer, they deserve the slight tweaks. Personally I think its a case of item jelousy. Where you pick up an item and you want your character to use it (or don't have the proficiency for it), and you know you will have to give it to another NPC who will then become more useful than your own character. Deal with it. :P
Personally I think its a case of item jelousy. Where you pick up an item and you want your character to use it (or don't have the proficiency for it), and you know you will have to give it to another NPC who will then become more useful than your own character. Deal with it. :P
Holy leap of judgement, Batman!
Nah. If I wanted my character to always outshine everyone I'd never play a Bard, as they're meant to play a supporting role.
I'm merely pointing out that allowing Sorcerers but not Bards to use it doesn't make a lot of sense.
the game mechanics (in PnP and in the game) for Bard spells works much more like the Sorcerer rather than the Wizard. There is no switching out of spells on a daily basis for a bard like Wizards can do. Hence, I would guess that the mechanics behind it would actually make Bard and Sorcerer more similar than Bard and Wizard. Again, from a mechanics perspective alone.
In that, I would suggest that Bards don't so much memorize spells as they do intuit them in the same manner that Sorcerers do.
I don't know what game you're playing, but this is simply not true. In BG/BG2 and in 2e PnP, bard spells function exactly like wizard spells. There very specifically IS "switching out of spells on a daily basis like wizards can do." Moreover bards can learn spells from scrolls and erase spells they've learned and replace them with new ones. Neither bards nor any other class works like sorcerers, because sorcerers don't even exist within the 2e ruleset.
You're either playing with a mod I've never heard of, or you're playing IWD2 or NWN2 or some other 3e game. But in this game, bards are just fighter-mages who can sing.
I'm tempted to go in-game to screenshot the description of the Ring of Wizardry, add an overdone red ring around "BARD" in the "Not usable by:" list, and post that.
Bard's cast wizard spells, so it would only make sense to me that the item would function the same for the bard class. That necklace that provides and extra 2nd level spell to mages, works for bards so why not the ring too?
Bard's cast wizard spells, so it would only make sense to me that the item would function the same for the bard class. That necklace that provides and extra 2nd level spell to mages, works for bards so why not the ring too?
Because the rules say it doesn't. It's a PNP item, it is for mages only. This isn't that hard...
The whole "fantasy" idea is pretty much made up. If you want to DM your own game it's simple to change rules or make up items to your heart's desire. But in core rules the book says "Mage only". If you want to make your own mod for the game that's fine too. But it shouldn't be controversial when the game designers actually follow the core rules!
I'm merely pointing out that allowing Sorcerers but not Bards to use it doesn't make a lot of sense.
But why that is the case has been pointed out in this thread long ago. according to the pnp rules that the game is based on, Bards are a 2e class in the Rogue group, sorcerer's are a 3e class that the developers shoehorned into the 2e rules as such they got put into the wizard group (as they clearly don't fit into Rogue, Priest or Warrior groups) , per the games implementation of the 2e ruleset, the ring only works for the 2e Wizard Group which the Bard does not belong to but which the sorcerer has been added to. So, yes it makes perfect sense given the ruleset and it's implementation that the game is playing under.
That's the same as saying the sky is blue because it's not any other color. Come on now.
But the underlying point is that the sky is blue because that is the color that the rules (science) says it is. Same here. Bards can't use the ring because the rules say so. Sorcerer's can for the same reason.
At the end of the day, due to the placement very early in the game and the class usability limitation, it is fairly obvious that it was included just to throw a bone to wizards at low level. Having to survive with only one single spell and zero combat ability is kind of tough. The ring actually makes life of a low level wizard slightly more survivable.
As you can see, Bards can survive much better than wizards can at low levels and hence don't 'Really' need the ring. Add to that the fact that it is a PnP item with very specific usage limitations and I think it is fine as it is. Maybe there is an argument for mid level wizards becoming powerful enough, but I think even then Bards get enough bonuses/abilities to remain relevant through the life cycle of Baldur's Gate 1 (EE) so as to make it not a "Necessary" for them to be able to use the ring.
Comments
Given that every arcane caster (minus the bards) are specialists they get a bonus spell/level anyway, let's not get into the Edwin thing here, but they can't hit the broad side of a barn without spells Sure a few of the level 1 spells are awesome (blindness, spook, and even magic missile come to mind). The priest classes all have crappy Wisdom scores with very few of them receiving bonus spells (druids don't even have a viable 2nd level spell selection, clerics are ok with hold person being the major stand out, but it only works on humanoids).
Bards (since they allowed kits) really have nothing to argue about as they either get a free super buff, an free enemy disabler, or can become really good at fighting, not to mention the ability to steal back sold wands/items fully recharged, or wear armor, use decent weapons, identify magical items for free, cast some spells at higher levels than mages, and have more HP than mages. Oh, they also get to use all the wands.
Is there a reason to have the developers change it? Maybe, but is it really a game breaker? A lot of people already hate on bards, but they are already very powerful characters.
Don't get me wrong, I love my Wizard and would play one even without the ring. It just helps the ADD in me to actually be able to do something more than once a combat.
I think bards are fun to use though the stuff they get in Icewind Dale (with HoF expansion installed) makes them strong enough to pull their weight. The skald song is pretty powerful though so if you have that available it makes a big difference in BG1.
Basically my stance is... they don't need extra spells, but more bard instruments would be nice : D
But I honestly think that table top D&D and Roleplaying in general is more about sitting around a table until all hours of the night gaming than who's character was the most used or useful. You were role playing your character and that took up time and energy. Even if you didn't get MVP for every single battle, you still had loads to do. And if you didn't enjoy the personality you portrayed, that more than your 'Power' made you want to play something else.
Personally I would always play party mage. Most combat rounds I would make some silly noise and duck and cover while the heavies in the group went at the baddies. That was fun to me. Then in one campaign, I was introduced into a party of 8-10th level characters as a 5th level wizard. Inside two weeks I had the group believing that I was 12th level and more powerful than the rest combined. THAT was role playing.
BG is a fun and awesome game all around. But it (and any CRPG) loses out on the true Role playing aspects because they don't have that level of interaction (IMHO).
I agree that Bards should be able to use Evermemory instead of Sorcerers. If the item description makes it clear that it helps a wizard MEMORIZE more spells, I don't see why it should help a Sorcerer channeling more power everyday.
It's not a good thing to allow bards to cast this spell as much as mages, since they gain XP much faster.
Or at least create another ring of Bardry that gives other bonuses. But not level 1 spell slot x 2.
Bards are not scholars but jack of all trades. They gained they limited magical strength as well as their thieving abilities by living and wandering, not by studying the knowledge of arcane magic as mages do.
Then, they should not be able to use evermemory (until HLA : Use all items - if they have it, because it epitomizes their ability to adapt and become a true jack of all trade).
Nah. If I wanted my character to always outshine everyone I'd never play a Bard, as they're meant to play a supporting role.
I'm merely pointing out that allowing Sorcerers but not Bards to use it doesn't make a lot of sense.
But I'm too lazy.
The whole "fantasy" idea is pretty much made up. If you want to DM your own game it's simple to change rules or make up items to your heart's desire. But in core rules the book says "Mage only". If you want to make your own mod for the game that's fine too. But it shouldn't be controversial when the game designers actually follow the core rules!
*Imports a level 40 bard into BG:EE*
*It seems sort of anticlimactic*
It is called High level attribute, and that's fine they can't equip it before that.
Although then you could have him use that Moonblade too then. ^_^
But I also though your comment was correct : of course they can equip it, but later than wizards. this seems perfect for me ;-)
Wizards:
HD : D4
Armor: None
Weapons: Dagger, Dart, Sling, Staff
THACO progression: Low
Special: Spells
Bards:
HD: D6
Armor: Leather, Hide armor, Elven Chain
Weapons: Swords, Bows, Clubs, Mace, Dagger, Dart, Sling, Staff
THACO Progression: Medium
Special: Spells, Bard Song, Thieving
As you can see, Bards can survive much better than wizards can at low levels and hence don't 'Really' need the ring. Add to that the fact that it is a PnP item with very specific usage limitations and I think it is fine as it is. Maybe there is an argument for mid level wizards becoming powerful enough, but I think even then Bards get enough bonuses/abilities to remain relevant through the life cycle of Baldur's Gate 1 (EE) so as to make it not a "Necessary" for them to be able to use the ring.