Which weapon proficiency system do you prefer for Baldur's Gate? (!!!! READ BEFORE VOTING !!!!)

StrayedMonkey

-By prefer I mean better fits
-Baldur's Gate does NOT mean SOA or ToB,
-Baldurs gate = BG1 or BGEE.
-I am NOT asking for a change to be made to BGEE.
-I am ONLY curious as to which one you prefer.

No vote = No results. Sorry.

atcDave

The more specific system just feels more like PNP to me. Especially with the styles added in. And I really like dual wielding...

At these lower levels I think the more general method is actually more advantageous to the player, especially if you haven't played so much you know exactly where all the best weapons of every type are. But I really refer the idea of more specific weapons training.

secretmantra

Forcing you to make the hard choices is good for game play, and is good for developing some tactical sense.

Aww, drat I can't have every +6 weapon equipped? Improvise.

StrayedMonkey

secretmantra said:

Forcing you to make the hard choices is good for game play, and is good for developing some tactical sense.

Aww, drat I can't have every +6 weapon equipped? Improvise.

You realize I'm only talking about BG 1 right? +6 weapons? really?

Kilivitz

Calm down, brother, he was being sarcastic.

I like the BG1 system better (I can be a lazy powergamer sometimes), but totally agree with @atcDave.

the_spyder

StrayedMonkey said:

secretmantra said:

Forcing you to make the hard choices is good for game play, and is good for developing some tactical sense.

Aww, drat I can't have every +6 weapon equipped? Improvise.

You realize I'm only talking about BG 1 right? +6 weapons? really?

I think it is appropriate to say "Chill"!

I think he was referring to planning for the future. Some players actually do that. They have their entire character's life cycle planned out before they leave Candlekeep.

Seriously, I like the choices and actually picking a weapon rather than a class of weapon. This just makes more sense to my PnP (from WAY back) mind.

IkMarc

This poll needs more options

Mathmick

I like weapon-specific because you feel like you're specialising in something. The only problem with such a system is when there aren't enough sweet weapons to go around.

With the EE coming around to add more stuff to the game, such a system is more viable now.

Eudaemonium

BG2's system is my personal preference due to the more specialised nature of it: it seems more concrete and thus allows a greater degree of RPing vis-a-vis characters' weapon skills. With EE adding options for some of the under-representing weapon-classes in BG1, the adoption of the BG2 system is not quite as unforgiving as it used to be. Of course, if you don't have anyone trained in Daggers or Bastard Swords the Werewolf Island can still be... tricky.

EnterHaerDalis

BG1 by a long shot for one simple reason

BGTutu/BG2 proficiencies simply mangled the NPC's in this game. Minsc, Shar-Teel, Khalid etc to name a few of the ones that are completely savaged by the BG2 proficiency sets. I actually play Minsc and Shar-Teel way less because I like to play clean and don't like to edit anything. They are essentially turned into jacks of all trades and masters of none

Bigfish

I preferred BG1 proficiencies, if only because I like options. I don't like this idea that I can be proficient in long swords, but I pick up a bastard sword or a short sword and its like I don't know which end is which.

atcDave

Bigfish said:

I preferred BG1 proficiencies, if only because I like options. I don't like this idea that I can be proficient in long swords, but I pick up a bastard sword or a short sword and its like I don't know which end is which.

That is why PNP uses related weapons categories. If you're proficient in a weapon, non-proficiency penalties are halved for similar weapons. If you're a specialist, its like being proficient in similar weapons (hmmm, that last one might be a house rule I've played with now that I think of it...)

I would think that would be easy enough to implement. It combines some of the best features of both methods.

lunar

I prefer spesific weapon types and weapon styles. It allows for more detailed customisation, planning and builds. In BG1, you get large swords and you can use longswords, two handers, bastardswords, and scimitars all well. Your character can switch between them depending on the magical weapons found. In classic fantasy literature, martial heroes do have a single preferred weapon type generally, which they are known for their skill. Like, for example, the all-time iconic Drizzt is notorious for his deadly SCIMITAR and two-weapon fighting style. So much that it became a trademark and encouraged many players into dual wielding weapons for their own characters, cos it looks and feels cool. Now I don't think Drizzt would be as skilled and deadly if he suddenly switched to a two handed sword. In BG1 rules, he would.

OzzyBotkins

I voted for Baldur's Gate 2: Shadows of Amn and Throne of Bhaal
I don't remember any game named Baldur's Gate 1 every coming out

Lemernis

BG2 system is preferable to me, mainly because the addition of dual-wielding is such an asset.

OneAngryMushroom

I really like the specifics of the BG2 proficiency but I really wish there was more variety with it. I have three characters with mastery of 2-handed swords and only one 2-handed Sword of Obliteration + 3 and no character in the entire series has proficiency in bastard swords so if the PC isn't good with it then that Bastard Sword of Exploding Implosions is wasted

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Crawley

I would say none. IWD had perfect balance between BG1 and BG2 proficiency systems ^^
But as such, BG2 is closer to PNP and I think I like it more. On the other hand, BG1 system lets you try out more weapons.

Moomintroll

I still think that the kensai requires the degree of specificity of the BG2 system + the weapon style options were really cool.

Fighting_Ferret

I went with the original BG weapon proficiency system, but I agree with Bhaaldog that a hybrid version of the two would be better...

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I like how 3rd edition handles weapon proficiencies a little better, by giving each class basic proficiency in a set of weapons (simple, martial, elf, rogue, and even deity preferred weapons for clerics).

It makes sense that almost anyone would be able to use "simple" weapons, or that warriors are trained in the use of many weapons, but can choose a favorite and excel at it or study an exotic weapon (granted some of the weapon choices are weird), or that a priest would use the weapon that their deity prefers, but how a bastard sword is considered exotic if you can use a long sword or a great sword is beyond me.

I think it would also be great to get some defensive bonuses with greater weapon proficiencies... because it is logical to think that the better you are with a weapon you are also more likely to increase your dodging, parrying, and blocking using that weapon as well as hit more often and in areas more likely to cause greater damage.

IkMarc

Imo the BG2 proficiency system is nicer for RP purposes, but it really isn't fit for BGEE. You are forced to become too specialized early on and focus really on those few power-gaming weapons. There is zero flexibility in this system in a game where you can get only so few proficiency points. This is especially a problem when you are new to the game.

If you ask me it would be optimal for BGEE to have the BG2 type system, but receiving more proficiency points while capping the max proficiency points in one type according to level. However this would cause imbalance when converting the character to BG2EE.

Therefore the most best solution for the "Enhanced Edition" saga is to revise the proficiency system completely.

O_Bruce

Simply re-naming the topic to "Which weapon proficiency system do you think fits Baldur's Gate better?" would be nice. Even if you have explained what exactly do you mean, note that liking/disliking a certain system won't make it less or more fitting.

As for the question itself, original Baldur's Gate system + weapon styles would do. There is no option here for it, thought.

CamDawg

Where's the option for the vastly superior BG2 Tweaks profs?

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The user and all related content has been deleted.

_N8_

BG2's weapon system is indisputably better, but BG1's low level cap would make BG2's weapon system way too limiting.

GoodSteve

@ZelgadisGW said exactly my thoughts. I think that the combined proficiencies (blunt, large swords, etc.) makes more sense realisticly but I also like the weapon style proficiencies as well. I mean, can someone really pick up a mace and become a grandmaster in its use and then pick up a club (which is effectively an entirely wooden mace) and not have a clue what they're doing? That makes no sense.

I understand people think that fantasy warriors being a master of their specific weapon is cool and all, but that can still be present in the game. Simply use the weapon you want your character to be known for. Adding in the weapon style proficiencies would also reenforce this. Lets take the example of Drizzt (boo) that was used earlier. If he had two pips in Large Swords and three pips in Two-Weapon Fighting he would be great at using his signature scimitars while dual weilding but if he picked up a Two-Handed Sword he would generally be fairly adept in its use but not as great as he is with his iconic swords and style.

Iecerint

I'd actually be fine with General Proficiency for the added flexibility, especially for non-metagamers, but clearer continuity with BGII is more important to me.

Rhyme

Voted for the BG1 system, but count me amongst the people who think that some hybrid is the best course of action. Here are some suggestions:

1. Re-group proficiencies, and combine the ones that are functionally similar or identical. Mace/Club/Morningstar/War Hammer could and should be one proficiency, not four. Seriously, I challenge somebody to tell me the functional difference in how one would weild a regular mace, a flanged mace, a morning star, and a war hammer. I think BG1 got closer to the right idea with its more general categories, and that's why it got my vote. But there's also a difference between a 1-handed blunt weapon and a 2-handed blunt weapon (a quarterstaff and a club are totally different, so "blunt" isn't a good grouping). And even in BG1, a morning star and a mace are considered totally different weapons. I just can't wrap my brain around that.

I would re-combine the BG2 proficiencies into the following groups:

-Axe
-Spear/Halberd/Staff/Rod (POLEARMS)
-Dagger/Short Sword (SHORT N' STABBY)
-Long Sword/Bastard Sword (bastard swords are large long swords when wielded 1-handed, and that's the only way you can use them in un-modded BG games)
-Two Handed Sword
-Scimitar/Katana/Wakizashi/Ninjato (SINGLE EDGE BLADES)
-Morning Star/Mace/Warhammer/Club
-Flail
-Long Bow/Short Bow
-Crossbow
-Sling
-Dart/Throwing Knife/Throwing Axe (thrown weapons)
Plus the weapon styles. Keep those.

This would strike a balance between the 8 proficiency classes of the original and the umpteen proficiency classes of BG2, and, more importantly, I feel like they're logical groupings. But it still falls apart a bit. It would be hard to imagine people picking flails over the mega-category of morning star/mace/warhammer/club, and there are lots of other arguments to be made (Why is a warhammer in with a mace, but not an axe? Isn't a ninjato a short n' stabby blade? Etc...)

2. Create a system that starts with general categories for lower levels of proficiency, but becomes more specific as you reach higher levels of mastery.

Imagine if the first point you place into katana also gave you a single point in all of those katana-like weapons. Maybe even the first two (specialized). But then, if you wanted to master the katana, the third point only applies to katanas (and wakizashis - those two should ALWAYS be the same proficiency, and it bugs the hell out of me that they are not). You could still pick up a scimitar or a cutlass and be pretty decent with it, but your real mastery of the tool applies specifically to that one type of weapon.

Good with bows, expert with the long bow. Good with stabby things, great with the shorter variety of stabby things.

There's limited downside to this. The only one that comes to mind is running out of meaningful places to put your points (a problem made significantly worse if the general category points went to specialized instead of just proficient). But while I haven't run the numbers, my mighty brain tells me it wouldn't actually be that bad in practice. The only classes that I could see having problems are fighter/clerics, rangers, and paladins (classes that still get a lot of proficiency points, but can only go as high as specialized).

I'd love to see this sort of a system in BG3.

secretmantra

StrayedMonkey said:

secretmantra said:

Forcing you to make the hard choices is good for game play, and is good for developing some tactical sense.

Aww, drat I can't have every +6 weapon equipped? Improvise.

You realize I'm only talking about BG 1 right? +6 weapons? really?

Clearly, I was making a joke. I was lampooning the desire of some players to obsessively min/max every conceivable shred of magic weapon power out of the game.*

*An activity I have engaged in myself sometimes when I forgot to stop trying to control everything and have (GASP) fun playing the game.

StrayedMonkey

I like BG2 system but it literally makes zero sense for BG1.

There are only a hand full of options for weapons. and EE didnt really ad that many more options.

I only included the 2 available systems without modding or tweaking the game if anyone was wondering.

And that is one of the few major reasons I will always prefer vanilla BG1 over BGEE, even though BGEE is good fun (dont take it the wrong way).

I don't think many of the BG2 features belong in BG1. Just my own personal opinion.

StrayedMonkey

secretmantra said:

StrayedMonkey said:

secretmantra said:

Forcing you to make the hard choices is good for game play, and is good for developing some tactical sense.

Aww, drat I can't have every +6 weapon equipped? Improvise.

You realize I'm only talking about BG 1 right? +6 weapons? really?

Clearly, I was making a joke. I was lampooning the desire of some players to obsessively min/max every conceivable shred of magic weapon power out of the game.*

*An activity I have engaged in myself sometimes when I forgot to stop trying to control everything and have (GASP) fun playing the game.

Yeah I know the point youre making and agree. But thats clearly talking about BG2 and not BG1. There aren't many options at all in BG1. and the most proficient you can get, without mods, cheating, tweaking, or taking advantage of a flaw in mechanics, is 4 pips in any given weapon. So i dont really see an issue with powergamming. Choosing Large swords allows you to use the swords available in the game, when there is not any other viable options.

and everyone is low levels.