**Spoilers** BG2 Challenge : Solo Poverty No-level
DjinniTonic
Member Posts: 9
I've enjoyed the Enhanced Edition of Baldur's Gate very much. That being said, my first game of the series was Baldur's Gate 2 : Shadows of Amn. It remains to this day my favorite (with it's extension).
Having replayed it numerous times over the years, I've taken on solo challenges to make things tactically more interesting. I have completed my first solo run of both SOA and TOB (Shadows of Amn and Throne of Bhaal) with a Monk. It was a lot of fun. That class being quite strong, almost immortal at high levels, it made for a good introduction. Since then I've completed a Solo Insane Poverty run as well. It was more work and needed more patience. I discovered a lot of strategies and what most would consider engine exploits. I don't have a problem with using technics that might be considered cheese in a normal run throught the game. I play exclusively on a vanilla install and solo runs are not meant to bring out the best role playing experience anyway. I based myself on the classical Sorcerer build for that challenge and adapted it my own way. I now love that class.
The Poverty vow is also quite interesting. It forces one to make hard choices and prepare carefully by not relying on scrolls for spells that one could not choose and gear like the Robe of Vecna to make Time Stops insanely more powerful than they already are.
I wanted share my latest challenge with the community here, to share the amazing replay-value of this series of games we all love and to get feedback and advice from people having completed similar challenges and having better strategies to suggest.
I am currently in the middle of a Solo Poverty No-level challenge.
What I mean by that is :
- Of course only the main character. No NPCs.
- No items, except quest items to carry around. No gold except of quest related bribes and such.
- No leveling up. Using only what the character as it is at creation at the beginning of the game and never clicking on the Level Up button.
First Try :
I've seen on the web, a lot of variations on those themes, and wanted to explore the possibilities of completing the game that way. My first instinct was to use a Bounty Hunter (a Thief kit) and facing the challenges of the game with traps and stealth. Apart from Mages it is one the few classes that can deal damage without using gear. And traps are notorious for being able to kill almost everything.
I got to the last rooms of the Labyrinth of the Asylum where I got stuck with that build. In order to defeat foes this character relies on being out of their sight and laying traps or throwing them in their direction. Abusing in a sense the Fog of War and the inability that enemies have to see beyond it.
Second Try :
Staying with the traps, I am now playing -as I am writing this- a Mage/Thief. Access to spells has made things easier.
Here's the current build :
Race : Elf
The DEX bonus of the elves helps to get the Thieving Skills to an acceptable level.
Class : Mage/Thief (magic and traps are the best)
At creation the character is a level 6 Mage and a level 7 Thief.
Alignment : Neutral Good
Cure Light Wounds make surviving a little easier in the first part of the game.
Draw Upon Holy Might helps getting DEX higher to push Thieving Skills even higher.
Abilities :
STR 9
Poverty means no need to carry anything, so STR is only useful for carrying quest items and the familiar.
DEX 19
Max useful dexterity. Gets AC to 6. Bonuses to Thieving Skills.
CON 16
Max useful constitution for that class to get good Hit Points.
INT 10
Don't need any actually. The character won't be learning new spells. Just put a few point not to die instantly when inadvertently facing a Mind Flayer.
WIS 14
I've read that wisdom gives bonuses to Saving Throws, but I've never seen a table giving specific numbers. The other advantage is that with a higher score, dialogues with NPCs get better and it let's you choose better options (like avoiding confrontation with the Priest of Cyric next the Shadow Thieves' Guild entrance).
CHA 8
The character is ugly but nobody cares. That score guarantees no maluses in reactions from NPCs.
I actually used the first roll from the creation engine to get those abilities. I don't think much more is needed.
Skills :
The only Thieving Skills this build is concerned with are :
Move Silently 145
With Hide In Shadows at a natural 30, it's enough to stealth successfully 80% of the time and keep it up very well.
Move Silently is more useful as it counts as much for hiding as for staying hidden as the other skill only counts in the initial roll.
Set Traps 90
High trap setting success rate. I can push it to 100 with Draw Upon Holy Might, but it works well without.
Proficiencies are irrelevant in a Poverty challenge.
Spells :
With that class one gets at creation the choice of :
Level 1 : 7 spells.
Level 2 : 6 spells.
Level 3 : 5 spells.
The character can then prepare :
Level 1 : 4 spells.
Level 2 : 2 spells.
Level 3 : 2 spells.
The challenge is in the chosing and the managing of those meager means.
This is what I started with (in order of usefulness) :
Level 1 :
Find Familiar* (extra HPs)
Magic Missile* (nice damage, quick spell and nobody shields)
Shield* (gets the AC a little lower, protects from enemy Magic Missiles)
Protection From Evil* (boost to Savind Throws)
Reflected Image
Chromatic Orb
Spook
Level 2 :
Invisibility* (nice to get around and out of difficult situation)
Mirror Image* (main defense)
Glitterdust* (blinds multiple creatures at distance)
Knock
Resist Fear
Luck
Level 3 :
Haste* (get away fast)
Melf's Minute Meteors* (nice damage, 5 attacks per round)
Skull Trap* (nice magical traps, but dangerous for the character as well)
Monster Summoning I* (cannon fodder to distract and attract foes)
Minor Spell Deflection
*Those are the spells I've successfuly used in defeating foes in my current run.
The main damage dealing weapon are the traps. At that level the character can set 2 traps per day.
Staying at that level the traps won't upgrade and deal a correct but far from impressive amount : 2d8+5 non-magical piercing damage. Only the Otyugh inside Irenicus' Dungeon and Golems outside were immune to them.
My vanilly game (SOA+TOB) limits the number of traps to 7 per area. So sometimes Skull Traps took the relay or I used several areas and moved between them making sure the foes followed.
Skull Trap are a nice source of damage but one has to be careful with those. Glitterdust helps with that. Once enemies are blinded, the character can come within range without being detected and cast Skull Trap in the middle of enemy groups. Melf's Minute Meteors were the only weapon used with the occasional Magic Missile.
Having no access to Stoneskin, Mirror Image carries the responsability of protecting the character against traps and combat. But the main tactic is to avoid combat and ambush monsters with traps, magical and otherwise.
Stealth was maintained as much as possible, so travelling outside by night really helps with stealth rolls.
Hide in Shadows is a great, at-will, source of invisibility. The Mage spell Invisibility is more of an emergency measure to avoid getting waylaid by enemies.
I found out that using Auto-Pause spell casting allows for Hiding in Shadows immediatly after casting spells, so not to aggro foes in the Fog. Same goes for fighting, with the one spell per round rule, first cast Magic Missile then pelt them with Minute Meteors and at the next round immediately cast another spell. The round is used in it's entirety to deal damage.
This is the path I chose to follow for the run. As you will notice, having no need for xp or gear, I cut corners and go directly for the main quests :
Get out of Irenicus' Dungeon as fast as possible. The only foes you have to kill are the Mephit Portals. I used Melf's Minute Meteors to do the job.
Once out, Slums, Gaelan Bayle, then City Gates and Trademeet.
There accept the Druid quest, hike accross the Grove invisible. Don't accept Cernd in the group and meet him there. He challenges Faldorn and wins. Quest done. On the way, lay some traps at the feet of the potion seller and attack her to get the Rakshasa's head for dealing with Genies. Once back to Trademeet, talk with the Genies, then the Mayor to get a total of 20'250 gold as reward.
Back to Athkatla, went directly to Gaelan and joined the Shadow Thieves. I find their quests easier with traps, there are less foes and more space to work on ambushing them. Kill Lassal on the docks, kill the traitors and the contact in the Five Flagons' Inn, and then kill Tanova because she's in the way, and Lassal to make Bodhi appear. Harm her and get to Brynnlaw. There I went directly the crazy Cowled Wizard and took his Ward Stone (by murder). In the Asylum, escape the labyrinth after disposing of some Kobolds, a Vampire, some Kobolds again and a Spore Colony. Once out hire the other inmates of the Asylum to attack Irenicus. Let them do the job, and hide in the corner. Get out invisible, tell Saemon to get lost and get directly to the Underdark through the Portal.
Once there kill the gnome that has the Light Stone, go pay a visit to Adalon. Shoot a Magic Missile at her. She gets angry. The quest to infiltrate the Drow City and recover the Dragon Eggs is failed, the doors to the surface open automatically. Flee from the dragon. Get to the other side of the map. Fight through the Kua-Toa (longest fights yet, those annoying creatudes can see through invisibility) to get to the Elves.
Now I have recruted the Order, Drizzt and the Shadow Thieves to attack Bodhi in her complex in the Graveyard back in the main city. That's where I'm at. I'll keep you posted on the next steps of the run.
I hope my post was not unbereable to read and that it is something some of you will be interested in.
I'm looking forward to you input and critique.
Having replayed it numerous times over the years, I've taken on solo challenges to make things tactically more interesting. I have completed my first solo run of both SOA and TOB (Shadows of Amn and Throne of Bhaal) with a Monk. It was a lot of fun. That class being quite strong, almost immortal at high levels, it made for a good introduction. Since then I've completed a Solo Insane Poverty run as well. It was more work and needed more patience. I discovered a lot of strategies and what most would consider engine exploits. I don't have a problem with using technics that might be considered cheese in a normal run throught the game. I play exclusively on a vanilla install and solo runs are not meant to bring out the best role playing experience anyway. I based myself on the classical Sorcerer build for that challenge and adapted it my own way. I now love that class.
The Poverty vow is also quite interesting. It forces one to make hard choices and prepare carefully by not relying on scrolls for spells that one could not choose and gear like the Robe of Vecna to make Time Stops insanely more powerful than they already are.
I wanted share my latest challenge with the community here, to share the amazing replay-value of this series of games we all love and to get feedback and advice from people having completed similar challenges and having better strategies to suggest.
I am currently in the middle of a Solo Poverty No-level challenge.
What I mean by that is :
- Of course only the main character. No NPCs.
- No items, except quest items to carry around. No gold except of quest related bribes and such.
- No leveling up. Using only what the character as it is at creation at the beginning of the game and never clicking on the Level Up button.
First Try :
I've seen on the web, a lot of variations on those themes, and wanted to explore the possibilities of completing the game that way. My first instinct was to use a Bounty Hunter (a Thief kit) and facing the challenges of the game with traps and stealth. Apart from Mages it is one the few classes that can deal damage without using gear. And traps are notorious for being able to kill almost everything.
I got to the last rooms of the Labyrinth of the Asylum where I got stuck with that build. In order to defeat foes this character relies on being out of their sight and laying traps or throwing them in their direction. Abusing in a sense the Fog of War and the inability that enemies have to see beyond it.
Second Try :
Staying with the traps, I am now playing -as I am writing this- a Mage/Thief. Access to spells has made things easier.
Here's the current build :
Race : Elf
The DEX bonus of the elves helps to get the Thieving Skills to an acceptable level.
Class : Mage/Thief (magic and traps are the best)
At creation the character is a level 6 Mage and a level 7 Thief.
Alignment : Neutral Good
Cure Light Wounds make surviving a little easier in the first part of the game.
Draw Upon Holy Might helps getting DEX higher to push Thieving Skills even higher.
Abilities :
STR 9
Poverty means no need to carry anything, so STR is only useful for carrying quest items and the familiar.
DEX 19
Max useful dexterity. Gets AC to 6. Bonuses to Thieving Skills.
CON 16
Max useful constitution for that class to get good Hit Points.
INT 10
Don't need any actually. The character won't be learning new spells. Just put a few point not to die instantly when inadvertently facing a Mind Flayer.
WIS 14
I've read that wisdom gives bonuses to Saving Throws, but I've never seen a table giving specific numbers. The other advantage is that with a higher score, dialogues with NPCs get better and it let's you choose better options (like avoiding confrontation with the Priest of Cyric next the Shadow Thieves' Guild entrance).
CHA 8
The character is ugly but nobody cares. That score guarantees no maluses in reactions from NPCs.
I actually used the first roll from the creation engine to get those abilities. I don't think much more is needed.
Skills :
The only Thieving Skills this build is concerned with are :
Move Silently 145
With Hide In Shadows at a natural 30, it's enough to stealth successfully 80% of the time and keep it up very well.
Move Silently is more useful as it counts as much for hiding as for staying hidden as the other skill only counts in the initial roll.
Set Traps 90
High trap setting success rate. I can push it to 100 with Draw Upon Holy Might, but it works well without.
Proficiencies are irrelevant in a Poverty challenge.
Spells :
With that class one gets at creation the choice of :
Level 1 : 7 spells.
Level 2 : 6 spells.
Level 3 : 5 spells.
The character can then prepare :
Level 1 : 4 spells.
Level 2 : 2 spells.
Level 3 : 2 spells.
The challenge is in the chosing and the managing of those meager means.
This is what I started with (in order of usefulness) :
Level 1 :
Find Familiar* (extra HPs)
Magic Missile* (nice damage, quick spell and nobody shields)
Shield* (gets the AC a little lower, protects from enemy Magic Missiles)
Protection From Evil* (boost to Savind Throws)
Reflected Image
Chromatic Orb
Spook
Level 2 :
Invisibility* (nice to get around and out of difficult situation)
Mirror Image* (main defense)
Glitterdust* (blinds multiple creatures at distance)
Knock
Resist Fear
Luck
Level 3 :
Haste* (get away fast)
Melf's Minute Meteors* (nice damage, 5 attacks per round)
Skull Trap* (nice magical traps, but dangerous for the character as well)
Monster Summoning I* (cannon fodder to distract and attract foes)
Minor Spell Deflection
*Those are the spells I've successfuly used in defeating foes in my current run.
The main damage dealing weapon are the traps. At that level the character can set 2 traps per day.
Staying at that level the traps won't upgrade and deal a correct but far from impressive amount : 2d8+5 non-magical piercing damage. Only the Otyugh inside Irenicus' Dungeon and Golems outside were immune to them.
My vanilly game (SOA+TOB) limits the number of traps to 7 per area. So sometimes Skull Traps took the relay or I used several areas and moved between them making sure the foes followed.
Skull Trap are a nice source of damage but one has to be careful with those. Glitterdust helps with that. Once enemies are blinded, the character can come within range without being detected and cast Skull Trap in the middle of enemy groups. Melf's Minute Meteors were the only weapon used with the occasional Magic Missile.
Having no access to Stoneskin, Mirror Image carries the responsability of protecting the character against traps and combat. But the main tactic is to avoid combat and ambush monsters with traps, magical and otherwise.
Stealth was maintained as much as possible, so travelling outside by night really helps with stealth rolls.
Hide in Shadows is a great, at-will, source of invisibility. The Mage spell Invisibility is more of an emergency measure to avoid getting waylaid by enemies.
I found out that using Auto-Pause spell casting allows for Hiding in Shadows immediatly after casting spells, so not to aggro foes in the Fog. Same goes for fighting, with the one spell per round rule, first cast Magic Missile then pelt them with Minute Meteors and at the next round immediately cast another spell. The round is used in it's entirety to deal damage.
This is the path I chose to follow for the run. As you will notice, having no need for xp or gear, I cut corners and go directly for the main quests :
Get out of Irenicus' Dungeon as fast as possible. The only foes you have to kill are the Mephit Portals. I used Melf's Minute Meteors to do the job.
Once out, Slums, Gaelan Bayle, then City Gates and Trademeet.
There accept the Druid quest, hike accross the Grove invisible. Don't accept Cernd in the group and meet him there. He challenges Faldorn and wins. Quest done. On the way, lay some traps at the feet of the potion seller and attack her to get the Rakshasa's head for dealing with Genies. Once back to Trademeet, talk with the Genies, then the Mayor to get a total of 20'250 gold as reward.
Back to Athkatla, went directly to Gaelan and joined the Shadow Thieves. I find their quests easier with traps, there are less foes and more space to work on ambushing them. Kill Lassal on the docks, kill the traitors and the contact in the Five Flagons' Inn, and then kill Tanova because she's in the way, and Lassal to make Bodhi appear. Harm her and get to Brynnlaw. There I went directly the crazy Cowled Wizard and took his Ward Stone (by murder). In the Asylum, escape the labyrinth after disposing of some Kobolds, a Vampire, some Kobolds again and a Spore Colony. Once out hire the other inmates of the Asylum to attack Irenicus. Let them do the job, and hide in the corner. Get out invisible, tell Saemon to get lost and get directly to the Underdark through the Portal.
Once there kill the gnome that has the Light Stone, go pay a visit to Adalon. Shoot a Magic Missile at her. She gets angry. The quest to infiltrate the Drow City and recover the Dragon Eggs is failed, the doors to the surface open automatically. Flee from the dragon. Get to the other side of the map. Fight through the Kua-Toa (longest fights yet, those annoying creatudes can see through invisibility) to get to the Elves.
Now I have recruted the Order, Drizzt and the Shadow Thieves to attack Bodhi in her complex in the Graveyard back in the main city. That's where I'm at. I'll keep you posted on the next steps of the run.
I hope my post was not unbereable to read and that it is something some of you will be interested in.
I'm looking forward to you input and critique.
1
Comments
I do have to ask though, how do you answer the question of monsters that require a given + weapon to damage? If poverty and only using what you had when you start, that means only mundane (I assume you pick up a weapon and armor from the first table) weapons and armor. or is that another caveat to your run? If so, how do you choose what items it is "OK" to pick up and what are not?
Thanks for understanding. I haven't met up any foes that could not be disposed of by either traps or spells the point of getting out of the underdark. The challenge for me is just to finish the game, not do every side quest. I'm trying to see if it is at all possible. I'm not absolutely certain it is possible. That's what I'm trying to find out and will share with the community.
I don't pick up any weapons or armor. I am basically playing a Spellcaster that can Stealth and Set Traps, so the character doesn't wear armor or use weapons. Mages/Thieves have anyway horrible THACO especially staying at level 6/7 the entire game, so I'll just use the spells and special abilities at my disposition. I've used the Slayer form a couple of times but it's not a viable solution for a prolongued battle. Poverty, as I understood it when I first encountered that in a challenge, namely the quite classic Solo Insane Poverty, is to not use any gear at all. The only caveat was to use a unenchanted quaterstaff to deal with the Magic Golems in TOB, apart from that my Sorceror in that challenge had no problem using only spells for everything.
By the way I don't think of doing TOB with the same setup things would get way to hard for my taste.
By any chance, have you ever played NetHack? It sounds a bit like conduct tracking would be of use to you.
Nice nickname, by the way.
I have read about poverty runs using a sorceror (and thus actually gaining spells as he was allowed to level) but a no levelling run is somethig else.
Have fun in the final tob battle.
Whats next? Solo insane no-reload no-level poverty scs2 tactics ascension run?
The beauty of games like the BG series with such a rich universe and a complex engine, is that you don't actually have to build in all possible tactics. I enjoy trying to get to the end of the game in a way not forthought by the developers, and see if the engine and game is flexible enough to make it possible. Thanks
I've seen on this forum a discussion by someone finishing the whole BG2 series without ever leveling. But he or she used gear and scrolls so apparently it was feasible.
I'm not sure I'm the best person to do a Let's Play, but I'm happy to share my knowledge with the community.
The run with the Sorceror is quite fun. I've completed it. Spells are really powerful, but you really need to have access to all levels of magic to finish TOB. I'm not sure I'll go beyong SOA with that challenge. The expansion is much more brutal and combat heavy than the original game. Yeah, exactly. I think I'll stay at three constraints per challenge.
The vanilla game is hard enough with those for me.
i'm quite certain you'll find it more enjoyable than having a character who never learns anything(levels up) even though he's beaten countless foes and never carries anything even though he has been rewarded countless times and dismisses all of his companions even though they're loyal to him
such sort of playthroughs SHOULD be impossible if the game was challenging enough
so pls stop playing with crap chars and by imposing fictional restrictions and ask for a greater challenge
a game that will be extremely challenging with 5 companions and you'll have to be creative in compining their strenghts and equip them in the best posible way in order to have a CHANCE to survive,that's whay we need.
ps:come on you don't even get an achievement for this!
1) Stats - Should I use Shadowkeeper to boost my stats assuming I got the tomes, or should I solo-no-level-poverty run BG1 to get them?
2) Items - I want three items for lore purposes.
- A normal dagger -> You NEVER go into the wilderness without a knife, ever. Basic rules or survival that even my sheltered castle upbringing would have taught me. This will also be necessary to kill Magic Golems in Watchers Keep (assuming I get that far, lol)
-Dagger +1 -> The magic dagger given to you by the Gatewarden in Candlekeep. You promised him you'd keep it forever, and my PC always keeps his word
-The Claw of Kazgaroth -> Gorion wasn't an idiot and decided it would be a good idea to give me a big pile of gold instead of a Cure Light Wounds before we left. Of course, the first thing I did with that pile of gold was go to High Hedge and buy a cursed major artifact! My PC would then vow to never use another item in the world except for the ones he already has.
3) Spells - Should I be allowed to use scrolls to memorize, or stick with only my starting spellbook?
Here's who I'm thinking will be this God of Murder
Min-Bin-Bhaal
CG Wild Mage level 7
18 (19)
19 (20)
17 (18->16 with Claw)
12 (13)
15 (18)
18 (19)
Single Weapon Style ++
Spells
Level 1:
Chill Touch
Chromatic Orb
Find Familiar
Magic Missile
Protection from Evil
Shield
Spook
Nahal's Reckless Dweomer
+12 HP, -20%max Magic Missile, +2 AC/saves, +4 Shield AC/MM immunity, -3 save Spook, Chromatic Orb paralyzes, Chill Touch bypasses Stoneskin and PFmW, and Nahal's lets me cast anything. I don't even care if it wipes my gold!
Level 2:
Chaos Shield
Glitterdust
Invisibility
Mirror Image
Resist Fear
Web
Knock/Vocalize
Wild Surge control, AOE Blindness/anti-Invisibility, scouting, damage reduction, +4 save vs. fear, and crowd control. I don't know if you NEED a thief to get past any storyline doors, but Vocalize is a welcome replacement if anyone can let me know.
Level 3:
Melf's Minute Meteors
Skull Trap
Haste
Slow
Spell Thrust
Dispel Magic
Magic weapon/maximized damage per round, AOE trap, kiting, and -1 attack/round for enemies. Spell Thrust gets rid of Minor Spell Deflection, Minor Glode of Invuneribility, Spell Immunity, and Minor Spell Turning. Dispel Magic gets rid of everything else, and has the bonus of helping me dispel harmful effects that Remove Magic does not.
Level 4:
Greater Malison
Spirit Armour
Stoneskin
Teleport Field
Ice Storm
Polymorph Self
-4 enemy saves, AC1/+4saves, damage reduction, AOE crowd control, and AOE damage that bypasses some resistances. Polymorph Self's spider form combos well with Web, the Mustard Jelly has 100% Magic Resistance and Immunity of Backstab, and the Mind Flayer can be used to take out some powerful foes by reducing their Intelligence to 0
Assuming I can memorize spells from scrolls, I can use Nahal's to reckless abandon. I would also love the extra 1000xp needed to hit level 8 and get the bonus 3rd and 4th level spell slots! I would totally attempt a no-level-tome-run assuming I could use wands/items/scrolls because this challenge would be impossible otherwise.
1) Solo
2) Insane
3) Naked (you can carry items in backpack, keep gold etc, but cant use or equip items except for quests)
4) Min stats (take human, and you must subtract all available points at character creation)
5) All encounters (you must do all quests; if you see a hostile creature, you have to kill it)
The difference is that level up is allowed. Sorcerer is the best candidate. Thieves, priests and druids should be doable too. Those defensive spells are now VERY important.
6) Optional challenge: no reloads
With a poverty run, its amazing how much Improved Aclaricy goes from "win now" to "hmmm.....what was Chain Lightings cast time again? 5? Ok, those will work."
I haven't played the game with improvements like the ones you cite, but I'll make sure to have a go at it when I'm done with my personal challenges. Sounds fun as well. Thanks !
@Tyranus
Doing a Solo Poverty No-level beginning in BG1 would quite hard once you import into BG2, unless the engine automatically gives you the usual 90'000 xp (or so) that you get when you create a character from scratch. I haven't tested that.
I like the RP aspect of your challenge. I think as long as it makes sense for your character and your experience of the challenge, it's great.
I've taken on my challenge as a mainly technical quest to see if those constraints are beatable.
In that sense I've never used any items, potions, gear, scrolls or otherwise. I use only the spells selected at creation. I only use what the character comes with when naked.
Your spell selection is close to those I use. If you plan on rolling a Wild Mage (as I assume that you will seeing that you select the Nahal and Chaos Shields), be aware that you'll make your spell casting less reliable and that your touch-based spells will need THACO rolls a pure mage has a hard time achieving.
On the other hand the Nahal spell isn't subject to alacrity so you can instantly spam your entire spellbook as if you just casted Improve Alacrity. The problem lies in the wild nature of the magic you'll cast that way.
I did not get access to 4th level spells at character creation, how do you plan on getting those ?
I haven't encountered locked doors in my run yet. I'll let you know.
Polymorph Self doesn't give you the Mind Flayer transformation, it's comes with the 9th level spell Shapechange. The earliest you can get access to that ability is when casting Limited Wish (7th level) and asking for the "ability to become anything you want" giving you then Shapechange for a couple of hours.
An interesting glitch/trick happens to NPCs that get shape change abilites through magic, they seem to keep it beyond the spell's lifespan, making it permanent in a sense. Yeah, I know it's a problem. But survivable. Try it non-poverty and let us know. I'd be intersted. Yeah, It's basically the Solo Insane Poverty challenge. I finished one with a Sorceror.
I did all the quests as well. None are impossible with the right strategies and tricks.
The min-stat is a devilish rule. Interesting. I'd love to see what happens to dialogue with NPCs and quest rewards. I'm not good enough for no-reloads. That's too harsh for my taste with the other constraints.
Speaking of walls. I've hit one with my run. It's actually the very last step that blocks me.
I'm stuck at the second fight against Irenicus, in Hell.
I setup some Skull Traps close enough to trigger when he appears.
It gets him to 1 HP, but that form of Irenicus is apparently unkillable per script.
He then changes into the Slayer with 1 HP and procedes to regenerate his Hit Points.
Hasted, I kite the summons to the South and proceed to Hide In Shadows. Luckily they don't see the character and wait around where the PC first disappeared. Irenicus/Slayer then regularly True Sights me. But I can keep out of harms way.
I had setup two other traps on the two possible location he teleports to as seen on this area map (the third location is the southern one where the summons are gathered) :
I put two sets of Skull Traps on each of the lateral locations as well as a couple of Snare. His Mantle and Magic Resistance, as well as his Contingencies, seem to always pick-up on the damage. As soon as the whole fight starts I haven't got any way to deal any damage apart from the Slayer transformation. I can backstap him with it but I end up dying of the transformation before he does.
So if any of you have other ideas. Please feel free to share them. If none, I'm afraid it's pretty much the end of the end of that run. I'll still describe other major fights in a later post.
Nevertheless, it's an astonishingly difficult challenge to undertake, and I'm amazed that you've proved it possible to survive as far as you have. I'm sure I couldn't achieve what you have done.
One point, however: That's what the tables in the manual say, but I think the documentation is wrong. Looking at in-game character record sheets, it appears that you actually need CHA 10 to avoid a reaction malus. CHA 8 appears to give a -2 reaction malus, in spite of what the documentation claims.
Confusion arises because the table in the manual talks about "Reaction Adjustment", but this seems to correspond to the entry "Reaction" in the character record sheet, whereas the character record sheet also contains a different entry called "Reaction Adjustment" which derives from DEX (not CHA) and affects combat initiative rather than dialogue outcomes.
@bbear I tried to roll one for fun. Indeed everything is more threatning. You have to almost be exclusively stealthed while fighting. I used to cast Mislead and leave the image in another room or map. The shutter effect of the invisibility reactivating after each spell kept my PC perfecty safe. Good for Mindflayers. They didn't seem to be able to see through invisibility.
@helmo1977 No I didn't. I tried casting around 30 Skull Traps at each potential teleport points as well as setting the 7 Snares I am allowed. But I can't seem to injure him enough or at all. The Slayer form gets him pretty low on health but I always die of the transformation before he does.
I will stop working on that run for now. Feel free to give it a try and tell us how far you get.
Here are some key strategies for the most challenging battles :
- Final fight against Bodhi
I hired help from every organization, Paladins from the Order, Shadow Thieves Assassins and Drizzt and his team. The last group is by far the most effective. Drizzt himself is a death machine. I just had to set up some traps (4 or 5 Snares can deal with any vamps at the first level) around the entrance (the one the Golem opens in previous quests) and kite some annoying foes to their doom before the Drow delt with the remaining named vampires. Don't bother with the Guardian and stay away from the mists, you can't hide from those.
The final fight against Bodhi and her minions on the lowest level was entirely the work of Drizzt who had no problem murdering everything on his path. I had to be sure to keep to the shadows, there is always the odd vampire that casts a charm spell if he sees you. I made sure to put some holy water in the blood pools to make things even easier for the Drow. I then staked Bodhi when he finished his work. Easy as pie.
- The Black Dragon in the Elf city
You can bribe him for the cup (as far as I've tested it's independant of your CHA, WIS or rep) with 30k gold. He's almost impossible to fight. He doesn't follow aggro so you can't get him to traps. And even having talk-locked him the 7 Snares are not enough. So get the gold before you get there. So I would advise to collect 45k gold in total in that run. No mission, apart from the really fighting heavy (planar prison, twisted rune, etc), are doable with careful Snaring and Stealth scouting.
- Wraith Sarevok
That challenge in Hell was the longest fight. Using the other Tears I made the PC immune to non-magical attacks, which means you can't be hurt by the apparition of your half-brother. But he has a lot of HP and resists a lot of it. I ended up putting 7 Snares in every challenge room and in the main hall. It got him to Badly Injured and I finished him with the Slayer. It's take time to prepare, beware.
- If any of you find how to defeat Irenicus Slayer in this challenge, congratulations. I don't have enough time to explore and test more strategies. So this challenges ends here for me. Maybe other classes or builds would be more successful. Who knows ?
Based on your level, will a Skull Trap out-damage the Meteors for a single-target? I think the Meteors actually inflict more single-target damage...
Also, can you use spells to create weapons (like Phantom Blade)? That, plus Mirror Image, might allow you to tank away his last few HP.
Regarding about min-stats, solo, poverty, all encounters, but yes level up challenge that I mentioned previously (are we talking about the same subject?), I think it's doable. I think misled should be a spell to be frown upon since 1) too broken, 2) there are better spells out there since misled loses its value at the end of ToB.
Another spell I consider not using is Wish. Does having 3 wisdom prevents you from wish rest? I think no wish rest is theoretically possible defeating the final boss.
I only played up to Ch2 finishing all the sidequests. I managed to beat most opponents by either:
[Spoiler]
1) Summoning works wonder (planetar, mordy swords, skeleton warrior),
2) Chain Contingency -> 3 Horrid Wilting @ Nearest Enemy on Enemy Sighted and Spell Trigger -> 3 Lower Resistance. For method 2, it's possible to time it right such that the Spell Trigger will always activate before Chain Contingency.
[/spoiler]
For magical golems, you have to summon/control something to kill it. I dont remember which creatures do normal weapon dmg.
Choosing the correct spells is also a challenge...My first 4th level spell was the spider spawn, not stoneskin. Summon 2 spiders and web are very strong against creatures that can be held.