Link between party size and charisma?
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- Link between party size and charisma?97 votes
- Yes. There should be a link between charisma & party size30.93%
- No. There should be no link between charisma & party size41.24%
- Requires further discussion27.84%
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Personally, I would like for charisma to influence more in conversations, etc. But that would require from Overhaul to re-write and write new dialogues, so obviously it's not coming.
I'd probably do:
15+: 5 Companions
10-14: 4 Companions
8-9: 3 Companions
5-7: 2 Companions
3-4: 1 Companion (Maybe even fixed to someone of same broad alignment (Good/Neutral/Evil) as Charname.
1-2: Forced Solo
I think someone with 1-2 Charisma shouldn't even have party members.
I actually think having some restriction on the alignment of companions, tied closely to reputation, would be interesting.
I can always RP this as it is, however, so I don't feel the need to alter the game physically.
Anyway, not all party members pay attention to "how much do I like/admire the person recruiting me"; for some it's just a matter a gold, even if you never really pay them (i.e. Kagain). You can't calculate in all reasons why NPCs would join you, so it's not neccessarily a matter of charisma how many party members you can have. You could have mercenaries who only care about gold/loot, or people like Viconia who are just glad someone doesn't judge them, or people like Dorn or Shar-Teel who care about how strong/efficient you are. So I don't really see why charisma should work as the one thing to determinate your group size.
I'd like it if charisma would influence dialogues (which, I agree, won't happen because it would require new options) or take the place of reputation when it comes to questgivers handing out extras. I'm not sure, but I think Silke does that - if you have high charisma, she'll raise the offered 300 gold to 400, even if your reputation is average. Also, Petrine's father actually keeps his word and gives you the cloak of protection if you kill the cat. In both cases, it's evil NPCs and it wouldn't make much sense if they gave you better rewards if your reputation is high. But it does make sense they give it to charismatic people, regardless of reputation.
(Prepare for wall of text)
I have often thought that charisma should have an effect on the reputation range in which you can keep your party members. A high charisma Charname might still invoke enough fear/respect/awe that a member would follow her/him even if they strayed quite far from the followers agenda whereas a Charname with low charisma should have to stick pretty much to followers of the same alignment categories. This would of course have to be graded in some way which would make it annoying to implement but could be something like the following:
A very low charisma Charname might only be able to have NPCS follow that are 1 alignment step away. IE a LN Charname could have TN, LG and LE followers. (This could possibly be stretched to include the entire category of neutral/evil/good that Charname belongs to to avoid a bit of the following point). I can see that this would make it hard to collect a full party with a low charisma Charname, which from a balance perspective is bad but is quite logical as an attribute effect of low charisma.
edit: or as I said above, just make the reputation spans narrower for happy/neutrual/unhappy/break. I get sidetracked in my own head so easily....
Another thing I've thought about (that might however be a bit too powerful, this is not a very well thought through suggestion in regards to game mechanics and balance!) is that having a high charisma ,or a very low one, should have some sort of effect on party performance since they are so (un)inspirational. Perhaps a bonus for the other partymembers (all but Charname) akin to the hit and damage bonuses for strength but in much lower scale. Perhaps something like Charname charisma 15-17 +1 to party damage and 18+ +1 hit and +1 damage and reverse effects for having a charisma of 6-4 and 3-. (This is harsh but I mean seriously... a Charname with a charisma of 6 and lower commands less respect than a generic goblin!)
For a much more subtle effect having a high charisma could just increase the endurance (due to increased motivation) of your party making them less susceptible to fatigue. "I have had enough waking hours slave driver!"
As always I write stuff at the top of my head, so feel free to condemn all my thoughts as incoherent ramble!
I think the idea is cool, but to implement it now would require a complete reworking of the game.
Anyway, making charisma what was suggested above would make it a mandatory high stat for ALL classes (unless you solo or play with specific NPCs). That's not balanced; going from "doesn't matter for anyone" to "matters significantly for everyone". Charisma should "do something" for the classes that have it as main stat - bards and paladins - in the same way fighter classes have "something" from high strength/constitution and caster classes from wisdom and/or intelligence.
Making charisma this important would be in no relation to the advantages other classes have from prime stats. How would a bard stand out if every fighter, mage and cleric had the same charisma requirement? It's not minmaxing to have a mage with low strength, and in the same way, it should be a viable option to have a not-so-charismatic fighter. Sure, charisma should give the classes using it as prime stat benefits, just like fighter classes can get 18/xx strength and clerics/mages get extra spells from their stats. But a fighter gets nothing from high wisdom, so why should they get something from high charisma?
If you read my suggestions above, the one with the added party damage and to hit bonuses for example, would only kick in at a suggested 15 for positive effects and at 6 for negative and would max out a +1/+1, -1/-1. This is in no way a gamebreaker and would not require anyone who wished to have an overly high charisma. Having 3 constitution as a mage would have far worse effects I think.
I think a game revolving around a group accomplishing things together should have more impact of a positive or negative leadership. Imagine running a group in real life with the effective charisma of a pile of manure.
I think a lot of the appeal in making charisma important is that it's such a role playing sort of stat. The three physical scores can have a direct impact on combat, the two mental scores affect the classes that use them in pretty concrete ways. But Charisma is a personality/character sort of thing. Hard to define, hard to quantify. I love the idea of it being useful in tangential sorts of ways.
Charismatic or not:
-Imoen has always been your friend
-Jaheira and Khalid made a vow to protect you
-Minsc and Dynaheir appreciate that you've saved her
-Shar Teel respects you for defeating her
As you can see, even though charisma should really have greater consequences during the game, I don't think that it should limit party size.
Aside from only advanced players being able to solo the game, Baldur's Gate is supposed to test the mettle of a group of characters. All the different NPCs --and combinations of different NPCs-- are what bring the game to life, and encourage replays.
A player should always be able to recruit a full party of 6, but making charisma more important could be done by, for example, giving the group a +1 on saving throws if the PC has a charisma of at least 17. Or a luck/critical hit bonus if the PC has a charisma of 18..
What if exceptional Charisma gave you more or less leeway as far as NPC reactions to your reputation?
Normally, good NPCs break at 1-2, neutrals at 1, and evil at 19-20. So with 17 Charisma, for example, good NPCs would break at 1, neutrals never, and evil at 20. With 18 Charisma, you can keep everyone regardless of reputation. With 19+, they'll stop using their angry/unhappy lines. :P And with very low Charisma, you'd have to manage your reputation much more carefully to ensure they stick with you.
Well, perhaps you're right that would be a bit much. Just an idea on how to make charisma more useful. It certainly doesn't address party size at all.