Feature Request for BG3: Choose your edition (1st, 2nd, 3e, 3.5e, 4th etc)

Wowo

So there's going to be no way to satisfy even 50% of the potential player base when it comes to deciding on an edition for BG3.

So, let it be a choice when you start a new game. Maybe just the most popular editions (say, AD&D 2nd, 3.5e and whatever is the current D&D - are they at 5th now?).

Incidentally I've stared at the screen for a few minutes but I don't seem to have an option to add a poll, maybe I'm having a blonde moment though. I'd hoped to add a poll to demonstrate that there is a broad range of views on what edition BG3 should be.

It would certainly increase replayability of BG3 if you could change the edition. Obviously it would be significant amount of coding but I just don't see any other way to do the game justice otherwise.

Copastetic1985

I think it's been said that if there is a BG3, it'll use the latest version of D&D.

I'm for 2e though.

MunchkinXQ

I would definitely want BG3 to stick with 2e.

I prefer 2e way much to 3r, and also I don't see why BG has to change its backbone.

But changing is still possible since a clear lean to the 3rd ed when they adding new features to BGEE, namely, kits. It would be really a gift if BG3 will be adopting 2e.

Lord_Tansheron

I'm pretty sure they will want to promote the current version of D&D. There is virtually no chance of a new official game using old rules. Could be modded in, I guess.

Wowo

Lord_Tansheron said:

I'm pretty sure they will want to promote the current version of D&D. There is virtually no chance of a new official game using old rules. Could be modded in, I guess.

Yeah I think that there's legal issues promoting the latest edition of D&D which is why the only way I see it possible that there could be an option to play the edition that you actually want is for a community push to promote a "choose your edition" style option, even if it's only framework that is put in place with the rest left to the community to code.

Stickan

Actually I think you'll find that much of the player base doesn't even know anything about the edition differences. I have never actually played a PnP D&D game and I think most of the other players are the same. The forums probably have an over-representation of PnP players if I should guess though. I should say that I have played a lot of other PnP games, though with less combat orientation than D&D seems to have.

As long as the styling of the game is fairly consistent I don't see any problem with any edition and I think the Devs will choose what they feel is best. I do think a system where you can change edition would be very very annoying to code and I feel that time and energy would be better spent on making the story engaging.

the_spyder

so as for the Op's request, I think that would be an insane amount of coding and therefore probably not a likely possibility. It isn't just the rules that would need to be coded, but balancing for all possible outcomes etc... Basically it would have to be 5 (or however many versions) complete games in and of themselves. What a nightmare, which is a shame because that WOULD satisfy most players.

I personally would vote for 2E. I'd settle for 3E if I had too. Quite frankly, if it is 4E or Next, I will have to think long and hard before I put any money down. I don't like the direction of the rules set and don't feel it is 'True D&D' these days, but more a grab for the MMO market.

But I suspect that it will be whatever version is currently being promoted.

Severon

2nd Edition. It would feel pretty inconsistent to switch to a different system for what I would assume would be the continuation of the game. If it's going to be a different game entirely with different plot, setting and characters then its fine, use the new system. Just don't call it Baldur's Gate 3.
I really really don't like the alignment system of 4th. Feels too 2D.

Jalily

To start a poll, click the arrow to the right of New Discussion.

On topic, Choose Your Edition would be such an enormous pain to code, bugtest, balance, and maintain that I seriously doubt the effort would be worth it. Every item, NPC, and encounter would have to be (play)tested for each option, and Overhaul—not to mention modders—would essentially be burdened with designing and debugging several games in one. It also has a good chance of splitting the player base along preferred edition lines, and you can guess what the first question of any newbie will be...

Even if multiple editions were doable contractually and within a commercially realistic timeframe, I'd prefer it if Overhaul spent their limited resources improving other areas of the game.

the_spyder

@Jalily, I think there have already been several polls on the topic. I think the OP is trying to satisfy everyone, and while that is a bit unrealistic, at least points for effort.

MunchkinXQ

Stickan said:

Actually I think you'll find that much of the player base doesn't even know anything about the edition differences. I have never actually played a PnP D&D game and I think most of the other players are the same. The forums probably have an over-representation of PnP players if I should guess though. I should say that I have played a lot of other PnP games, though with less combat orientation than D&D seems to have.

As long as the styling of the game is fairly consistent I don't see any problem with any edition and I think the Devs will choose what they feel is best. I do think a system where you can change edition would be very very annoying to code and I feel that time and energy would be better spent on making the story engaging.

Well, D&D 2e, 3r and 4e have such huge differences that it's quite impossible players won't notice the gap. One should've noticed this even if by only playing video games.

TJ_Hooker

MunchkinXQ said:

Stickan said:

Actually I think you'll find that much of the player base doesn't even know anything about the edition differences. I have never actually played a PnP D&D game and I think most of the other players are the same. The forums probably have an over-representation of PnP players if I should guess though. I should say that I have played a lot of other PnP games, though with less combat orientation than D&D seems to have.

As long as the styling of the game is fairly consistent I don't see any problem with any edition and I think the Devs will choose what they feel is best. I do think a system where you can change edition would be very very annoying to code and I feel that time and energy would be better spent on making the story engaging.

Well, D&D 2e, 3r and 4e have such huge differences that it's quite impossible players won't notice the gap. One should've noticed this even if by only playing video games.

While the differences can be pretty obvious and significant, that doesn't necessarily mean that players will connect these differences with their respective rulesets. They might just think of them as being different rules for different games. So someone who's never played P&P D&D may simply think of the ruleset used in BG as 'BG rules' and the ruleset used in NWN as 'NWN rules', rather than thinking of them as being 2nd and 3rd edition, in which case they may not really identify with any particular edition.

DJKajuru

Are you serious?

TJ_Hooker

Well, ok, I admit that was just speculation, as I don't think that way myself, nor have I heard of anyone else doing so. That being said, what makes that idea so unreasonable?

Anaximander

Pathfinder is superior!

DJKajuru

Well, it is doable and it might even "satisfy" players. But does it make your gameplay experience any better?

TJ_Hooker

@DJKajuru wait, I think I may have misunderstood. Was your "Are you serious?" directed at me, or the OP?

DJKajuru

@TJ_Hooker , it was directed at the OP . I actually agree with your arguments, but , honestly, I think that one consistent ruleset , a well written plot and roleplayability are the real relevant stuff for the development of a game.

Kilivitz

Yeah, sorry OP, but Viconia will come alive out of the computer screen and ask where the nearest BDSM joint is before this will happen.

The idea is so out there that it makes a BG3 using 2e rules likely by comparison. And that ain't happening either.

Trust whoever says that if BG3 comes out, it'll use the latest edition of D&D rules. Fortunately, they're much closer to 2e/3e than 4e was.

And since we're on the subject, as far as I'm concerned 4e books should be buried in the desert right next to all those ET: The Game Atari 2600 cartridges, with only a select few copies being kept on a bookshelf labeled "bad ideas" up on WotC's headquarters.

TJ_Hooker

DJKajuru said:

@TJ_Hooker , it was directed at the OP . I actually agree with your arguments, but , honestly, I think that one consistent ruleset , a well written plot and roleplayability are the real relevant stuff for the development of a game.

Oh ok, yeah I totally agree. If time and money were unlimited, it might be a neat idea, but I think the cost/benefit ratio would be dreadful.

Wowo

Jalily said:

To start a poll, click the arrow to the right of New Discussion.

On topic, Choose Your Edition would be such an enormous pain to code, bugtest, balance, and maintain that I seriously doubt the effort would be worth it. Every item, NPC, and encounter would have to be (play)tested for each option, and Overhaul—not to mention modders—would essentially be burdened with designing and debugging several games in one. It also has a good chance of splitting the player base along preferred edition lines, and you can guess what the first question of any newbie will be...

Even if multiple editions were doable contractually and within a commercially realistic timeframe, I'd prefer it if Overhaul spent their limited resources improving other areas of the game.

Thank you, I see the new poll now! I felt so dumb staring at the new thread screen trying to see where I could add a poll but I'd already past that step and didn't think to look back, such is the reality of waking up I suppose.

Modders could choose to work in just 1 edition so no issue there.

The reason I think it could be worthwhile is that the different editions really do create very different play experiences. When you start coming up against level 7+ wizards in 2e you have to deal with spell protections/counters etc which is something that's done away with for the most part in 3e (iirc). No idea what is in 4e+ but my impression was that it was even simpler.

It could even be the case that earlier editions are unlockable via in game accomplishments.

End of the day, D&D is no longer a 1 edition game. 2e for the most part is dead (to my understanding) but many on this forum at least want a 2e BG3. 3.5e and 4e are very much alive.

Doing the work on the different rule sets would be huge but how else to satisfy the community and make a game that is truly worthy of the BG3 title?

Kilivitz

Wowo said:

Doing the work on the different rule sets would be huge but how else to satisfy the community and make a game that is truly worthy of the BG3 title?

By focusing on a really solid game with a compelling story, memorable NPCs, fun gameplay and lots of replayability.

If they can do that, it doesn't matter if it's not 2e. D&D Next will be similar enough to gain acceptance among long-time fans of the series.

Wowo

Kilivitz said:

Wowo said:

Doing the work on the different rule sets would be huge but how else to satisfy the community and make a game that is truly worthy of the BG3 title?

By focusing on a really solid game with a compelling story, memorable NPCs, fun gameplay and lots of replayability.

If they can do that, it doesn't matter if it's not 2e. D&D Next will be similar enough to gain acceptance among long-time fans of the series.

NWN2 basically had all that but wasn't particularly successful. Unless BG3 does something different - like, really different - it'll just be reusing a classic title for a quick pay day.

Giving the modding community the capacity to work within the edition that they want to work in and players the choice of their preferred edition or even just encouraging them to try all of them would be huge points.

The game could just be packaged with edition "next" and 1 other. Then the framework will be in place and the community can do the rest.

the_spyder

Well, I just started watching the play through of Neverwinter and Yech!!!! They are calling it an MMO and comparing it to Baldur's gate Dark Alliance. That seems to be the direction that Hasbro and Atari want things to go. I for one will not be dropping a single dime on Neverwinter and if BG3 follows suit, that means I just saved a bunch more money. Just saying....

Kaltzor

I'd rather keep the AD&D of BG1 and 2...

Kilivitz

I'd like that too, but from a marketing perspective, it's just not feasible. Using an older ruleset would mean they miss an opportunity to promote their current edition (the one they must be selling at the time), and potentially confuse a lot of casual gamers that will be buying the game because of the D&D logo above the name.

You must remember that BG2 itself using 2e was already an exception - they needed to keep it consistent with BG1, and even so, there were a lot of "3Eisms" included to make it more current, including the aesthetics and the inclusion of Half-Orcs, Barbarians and Monks, all based in their 3e counterparts.

BG3 is coming almost 15 years later with a fresh story. That's all they need to justify changing the ruleset. Hell, it happened between IWD1 and IWD2.

Schneidend

What you're describing is pretty much impossible. As much as I'd prefer a 4th Edition BG3, the game would almost undoubtedly be based on Next/5E.

Wowo

Kilivitz said:

I'd like that too, but from a marketing perspective, it's just not feasible. Using an older ruleset would mean they miss an opportunity to promote their current edition (the one they must be selling at the time), and potentially confuse a lot of casual gamers that will be buying the game because of the D&D logo above the name.

You must remember that BG2 itself using 2e was already an exception - they needed to keep it consistent with BG1, and even so, there were a lot of "3Eisms" included to make it more current, including the aesthetics and the inclusion of Half-Orcs, Barbarians and Monks, all based in their 3e counterparts.

BG3 is coming almost 15 years later with a fresh story. That's all they need to justify changing the ruleset. Hell, it happened between IWD1 and IWD2.

What if 2e was an unlockable mode after youd completed the game as normal?

Dee

Or GURPS.

GURPS is fun, right?

Kilivitz

Wowo said:

What if 2e was an unlockable mode after youd completed the game as normal?

Then you fall into the situation a lot of folks pointed out earlier: it's essentially coding/bug-fixing/supporting two different games (even if the content is the same and the rules are similar). You'd have a hard time convincing any developers that this is worth the time and trouble. Making it a hidden/unlockable feature makes it even less worthwhile, considering it'll be accessed by an even smaller audience.

Now, don't get me wrong, it's not that I wouldn't want to see the functionality you're proposing. I just think it's too good to be true, for all the reasons I already suggested.

Iecerint

Kilivitz said:

Trust whoever says that if BG3 comes out, it'll use the latest edition of D&D rules. Fortunately, they're much closer to 2e/3e than 4e was.

I've heard that 4e removes the orthogonality between Law/Chaos and Good/Evil, which seems like the worst idea I have ever seen ever to me, but YMMV.

Is this undone in whatever the more-recent version is?