Bad reputation and the consequences!

NocturneN

So, as I've never dared going below 4 rep before, I figured it was about time to see what happens!

Shortly after arriving in Beregost, I was greeted by a Flaming Fist war party, and decided to stick around for the ensuing fight! Despite lack of rest and spells, I was able to destroy almost the whole party, when...ANOTHER party suddenly arrived! What's that all about?

Anyone care to explain the system abit for me? I figured I'd get atleast some respite after battling it out with one party, but no...do they just keep coming? Should I run for the hills?

I noticed one of the commoners also went hostile; I think killing a Fist Enforcer in sight of him might've done that, but I'm completely unsure! If I went and donated to the church, would the commoners become neutral again or do they remain hostile? I.e. what triggers the hostility and is it reversable? Many thanks, NN

drakescar9

yeah pissing the guards off and getting a low rep is like putting a target on your back and putting a sign on your chest that says 'Kill me! I'm an bad person!'

KidCarnival

I think there's a threshold difference. If it drops to 1, EVERYONE turns hostile. So, if you killed a Flaming Fist, that likely made your rep drop enough to turn the commoners in the area hostile, too. Once hostile, they usually stay hostile, but don't actively attack (or they are too slow to get to you if you just walk by). Assuming your rep is already so low that it can't drop any further, you should just kill everything that moves and then buy the rep back as needed. New commoners that were not in the area should be neutral after that.

drakescar9

i don't look at my rep

NocturneN

KidCarnival said:

I think there's a threshold difference. If it drops to 1, EVERYONE turns hostile. So, if you killed a Flaming Fist, that likely made your rep drop enough to turn the commoners in the area hostile, too. Once hostile, they usually stay hostile, but don't actively attack (or they are too slow to get to you if you just walk by). Assuming your rep is already so low that it can't drop any further, you should just kill everything that moves and then buy the rep back as needed. New commoners that were not in the area should be neutral after that.

Hmm, do commoners respawn? Either way, quite insightful - thanks!

drakescar9 said:

yeah pissing the guards off and getting a low rep is like putting a target on your back and putting a sign on your chest that says 'Kill me! I'm an bad person!'

They'll just keep coming, then? I thought I'd only get a new encounter when travelling, but it seems I'll just have to fight wave after wave...

Is there any difference between wilderness areas and civilised areas? One would think it would be easier to avoid the law traversing the woods, for example.

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KidCarnival

Commoners don't "respawn" as in "new ones appear out of nowhere" like Flaming Fists. But they do move around and can enter/leave houses. For example, in Nashkel, Taris will go inside the Inn when it gets dark and come back out in the morning. Houses are different maps/areas, so the commoners that left would not turn hostile with the others. It's the reverse case of killing a lone commoner in a house to avoid guards attacking you. I'm not sure commoners do that on all maps, but in most towns, they seem to move around, including entering buildings (or disappearing into them and later reappear, I don't think they're actually inside when you go looking, but it's hard to follow the unnamed ones).

Luigirules

1 reputation won't make commoners automatically hostile.

I'm doing a 1-rep run now, and they only become hostile when you kill other commoners around them.

drakescar9

most i've ever killed is when i started a bar fight in the friendly arm

NocturneN

@Luigirules

Or if there is a hostile Flaming Fist in the vicinity of the party, any commoners nearby also turn hostile! And commoners near those commoners turn hostile...

I find it dissapointing that the Flaming Fist parties seem infinite... it's not THAT hard to beat one party, but I actually got attacked inside the Jovial Juggler and they just kept coming! In the end, I had some 30+ soldiers bashing my skull in!!

They also have nothing of any real value on them, so once you're down to 1 rep you have to pay an exorbiant amount of money to get to good standing. Mayhaps this is something a future mod could adress!

KidCarnival said:

I'm not sure commoners do that on all maps, but in most towns, they seem to move around, including entering buildings (or disappearing into them and later reappear, I don't think they're actually inside when you go looking, but it's hard to follow the unnamed ones).

That is really cool and something I've never noticed for all my years playing BG!

KidCarnival

I've only noticed when Dorn told me to talk to Taris while being in Nashkel at night - and no Taris was there. I figured I go rest and hope she reappears (wasn't sure if she was accidentally killed in the fight with Nimbul) and behold, there she is in the Inn. I rested anyway, and found her outside. There had also been two more commoners in the Inn that were not there after resting.
As far as I can tell, commoners can enter and leave Inns and houses. Not sure about shops. I've definitely seen commoners in the BG city shops (the normal "General Stores"), but never in Thunderhammer Smithy or Nashkel Store.

Luigirules

Nothing of real value? Depends what you define as "real value". Those FF parties have a few guys in plate mail, which is actually worth a decent amount of coin.

I've never had that many FF parties spawn, either. I've only ever gotten one group per map, and even then you have to wait a while for another to trigger.

KidCarnival

The most I had was 2 groups. Early in the game, even the splint mail is "valuable". Sure, you can't buy 20 rep with that, but with the store prices on low rep, every coin counts.

Copastetic1985

Not sure if it's in EE, but if you go to Nashkel, there should be a random bounty hunter for you if your rep is low. He's not hard, and I think he just uses Studded Leather.

Wish there were more than FF coming after you.

NocturneN

Could be different in EE and BGT. The Bounty Hunters in Nashkel never stop spawning in my game, and nor does the FF parties. I could have a bug or two in my install aswell.

I've only ever seen commoners (and other people) go into houses when they're fleeing, though I admittedly have never bothered looking. There sure seems to be alot less people out at night, and beds inside houses seem to be fuller! ^^ Could also simply be an EE feature.

Well, I agree about plate mail and splint mail being valuable, 'Tis just that I use Aurora mod which cuts all sell prices in half, so the most I'll get for a Plate Mail is ~150 gp. It's good money, sure, alas, my party consists of physically weak characters so lugging it all back to the shops to sell is not an option.

GrimjackMV

Playing a low REP party and finding myself in a similar situation. Upon zoning into the Friendly Arm Inn area I was met by a Flaming Fist party, after dispatching them - within moments a second Flaming Fist party spawned into the area.

This spam spawning of Flaming Fist groups is making a low REP play through a little unmanageable.

Artona

@GrimjackMV - potions of invisibility are your friend.

Arcalian

The "safe" low rep is 6. After that you are downgraded from "evil adventurer" to "enemy of all". I don't say it's logical or right, but that's what it is.

bryanw1995

I just gave baeloth invisitbility 10' radius, we can go wherever we want

jmerry

All right, an explanation of the system:

- In populated areas, there are undetectable traps on the ground that trigger if your reputation is sufficiently low to call forth the forces of law and order against you. These traps refresh after triggering, so you can't deal with them by triggering them once and never worrying again. You're safe for a bit after one goes off, but after a timer expires the law can come for you again, even at the same spot.
- The enforcers only show up if the triggering party member is visible. Party-wide invisibility will prevent any trouble.
- The forces that come after you, and the reputation needed to trigger them, vary by location. Details below for the BG1 campaign:
- Baldur's Gate city, Friendly Arm Inn, Nashkel: a Flaming Fist party at reputation 2 or less. Killing any of them will further lower your reputation until you reach the minimum possible value of 1. Also note that some of the trigger points are inside inns; it's not just out on the streets that you have to worry about the law.
- Nashkel: a lone Bounty Hunter at reputation 3 or less. Killing him will further lower your reputation.
- Wyrm's Crossing and the farm area south of that: named bounty hunters at reputation 3 or less. Unlike the other traps, these are one-time triggers and crossing them the first time will deactivate them in the future even if your reputation is high.

In addition, some otherwise neutral NPCs will attack you if your reputation is low. The paladin Laurel out in the western wilderness will attack you when you speak to her if your reputation is 7 or less. The Amnian Soldiers patrolling Nashkel will attack you on sight if your reputation is 4 or less. Officer Vai will attack you if you speak to her with reputation 4 or less.

Overall, a reputation of 5 or more is generally safe. But if you drop just a bit, especially in Nashkel, it can spiral down out of control. The soldiers attack, you fight back, you take reputation penalties for killing them, and all of a sudden you're at 1 and any non-evil companions you had (aside from Imoen) abandon you permanently.

The Siege of Dragonspear campaign does not have any such traps. You're on the same side as the Flaming Fist, no matter how bad your reputation gets.

In BG2, the system is back on, though simpler. All of the triggers are in the streets of Athkatla, and there's only one trap script, triggered if your reputation is 3 or less. You face a squad of Amnian soldiers and Cowled Enforcers, or, if your level is high enough, a party of named adventurers from the Radiant Heart order. If you kill some but not all of the Radiant Heart party, the survivors will retreat, raise their dead, and be eligible to face you again after a day. If you kill all of them, they're permanently dead. Unlike the BG1 law enforcers, killing these foes will not affect your reputation.
In addition, if your reputation falls to 3 or less, the Cowled Wizards will no longer come after you for casting arcane spells in the streets. That's a permanent effect, even if your reputation increases later. Feel free to fight back with all your tools, and don't worry about Cowled Wizard retaliation.

The Throne of Bhaal campaign does not have any such traps. There's just not enough law left to make the attempt where you're adventuring.