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Cleric/mage

Hi all, I want to play as a cleric/mage half elf. Can I wear a mage robe? and if so can i still cast cleric spells....played both BG1 and BG2 many years ago and can't quite remember if its possible. Also what's the highest role you can get for this character type? Thanks

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  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,686
    edited March 2013
    marty29 said:

    Hi all, I want to play as a cleric/mage half elf. Can I wear a mage robe? and if so can i still cast cleric spells....played both BG1 and BG2 many years ago and can't quite remember if its possible. Also what's the highest role you can get for this character type? Thanks

    You can use mage robes, and all other items that requires you to be a mage to use them.

    You can cast all spells while you wear a mages robe.

    You can cast only cleric spells if you wear anything heavier (Including full plate)

    You can buff up with your mage spells, and then put on heavier armor.

    You can get rolls depending on how long time you are willing to spend on it. It's possible to get anything from 70 (BGEE) to 98 and perhaps more if you're incredible lucky. You'll not be having as easy to roll as a paladin, ranger or bard. But you can still get high enough score if you put time to it.

    If i was you, i would go for something like :

    Strenght : 10 (More if you want to use a heavy armor)
    Dexterity : 18
    Constitution : 16
    Wisdom : 18
    Intelligence : 18
    Charisma : 10

    That's a roll of 90.

    You can remove some wisdom, as you gain 3 tomes from BG1. But i would remove intelligence if i were you instead. You can put down your intelligence as far as you're comfortable with, and use potions to enhance it when you want to learn spells. Wisdom gives you extra spells for your cleric part, intelligence doesn't give you any extra spells for your mage part.

    Potion of genius gives you +4 intellect. So if you go down to 15 intellect then with a potion of genious you'll have 100% chanse to learn your spells, and you can learn all spells for your spell book (You get this from 19 intelligence) .

    If you're willing to use gauntlets of dexterity, then you can dump your dexterity stats aswell. You can get the gauntlets quite early in BG1 and it's a little more challenging to get them in BG2.

    Tomes :

    If you're using all tomes on your own character. Then you can go with

    Strenght : 9 (More if you want to use a heavy armor)
    Dexterity 17 (You can put this down to 10 if you're using gauntlets of dexterity)
    Constitution 15 (When you get the tome you'll end up on 16. As a cleric and mage you don't get more HP after 16 constitution)
    Wsdom : 18 (You'll end up with 21 and gain some extra spells from it.)
    Intelligence : 14/18 (14 If you're using potions of genius. 18 if you're not. With the tome you'll end up on 19)
    Charisma : 9 (With tome you'll get 10)

    You can ofcourse use Charisma as a dump stat, i don't do it because it breaks immersion for me. But some people don't mind doing it. Also i would advice to stick with 18 wisdom (21 when you get tomes) as it boosts a certain level 9 spell you get later on. And this spell is very powerful.

    [Edited] : You can use gauntlets of ogre might on your cleric/mage. That puts your strenght to 18. But you get theese alot later in the game, both for BG1 and BG2.

    marty29
  • marty29marty29 Member Posts: 30
    Thanks that's a lot of good information. So you think that if I put min amount in charisma it won't affect the conversations in the game with people, ie won't effect getting tasks etc??

    What about constitution? I thought it helps with saving throws against poison and the like.....??

    Managed to get 91 last night in my roll but do you think I could get better then??

    15 str
    17 dex
    17 con
    18 int
    18 wis
    6 cha

  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,686
    edited March 2013
    marty29 said:

    Thanks that's a lot of good information. So you think that if I put min amount in charisma it won't affect the conversations in the game with people, ie won't effect getting tasks etc??

    What about constitution? I thought it helps with saving throws against poison and the like.....??

    Managed to get 91 last night in my roll but do you think I could get better then??

    15 str
    17 dex
    17 con
    18 int
    18 wis
    6 cha

    Charisma only affects dialogue if you have 18 charisma. Anything under 18 charisma is the same dialogues.

    Constitution only helps with saving throws if you're a midget (Gnome, dwarf, halfling). If you're any other race you don't get anything beyond 16 constitution (Except a little bit of regeneration from 20, and there is no way to get that unless you're a dwarf or half orc)

    You don't need anything better than that score, it's way over what you could do well with playing a mage/cleric.

    I would change

    Con -> 15 (you get 16 with tome).

    If you're alright with putting charisma low, you could go with.

    18 str
    17 dex
    15 con
    18 int
    18 wis
    5 char

    This would make your character end with :

    19 str
    18 dex
    16 con
    19 int
    21 wis
    6 char.

    19 str = +3 Thac0 +7 damage from the strenght score of 19. It means you can actually deal some nice damage in melee if you have to. You'll also be able to use every armor and shield in the game, and carry 500LBS.

    18 dex = +4 armor class. You'll first get +5 when you hit 21 dex.

    16 con = +2 health per level up. You can't get past this if you're not warrior / ranger/ paladin /barbarian. So anything over 16 is useless.

    19 int = You got 95% chanse to read scrolls, and you'll be able to max your spell book. Also you'll have a nice lore bonus from it.

    21 wis = You'll get a nice bonus to lore. And you'll get extra spells :

    +3 level 1 spells
    +3 level 2 spells
    +2 level 3 spells
    +3 level 4 spells
    +1 level 5 spells

    6 cha = Doesn't make any difference if you have 6 or 17 in the game (Bard stronghold has some requirements, but you can't get that with a cleric/mage.

    [Edited] : I was wrong with the spell learning, i got 100% in my version from 19 intelligence but in vanilla game you get 95%. But 19 let's you max out your spell book, and quick save before you read any of the more important and rare spells (level 5+)

    You get 12 lore from 19 intelligence, and you get 20 lore from 21 wisdom. This lets you identify almost all arrows, bolts etc with just looking at them. Same with +1 weapons and armors. You'll save alot of money and level 1 spells (Identify) by having that good lore. And it'll get even higher up as you level up your character.

    RAM021
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  • harvman11harvman11 Member Posts: 33
    SionIV said:



    Charisma only affects dialogue if you have 18 charisma. Anything under 18 charisma is the same dialogues.

    This is not entirely true. Some NPCs (Minsc, I know, for one) will not be willing to join your party unless you have a high enough charisma (it may be total reaction score, which is based on cha and reputation). You can just use a high cha character (which you will have from the beginning of the game) to talk with these people, but it does play a role in other places.

    TJ_Hooker
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,686
    harvman11 said:

    SionIV said:



    Charisma only affects dialogue if you have 18 charisma. Anything under 18 charisma is the same dialogues.

    This is not entirely true. Some NPCs (Minsc, I know, for one) will not be willing to join your party unless you have a high enough charisma (it may be total reaction score, which is based on cha and reputation). You can just use a high cha character (which you will have from the beginning of the game) to talk with these people, but it does play a role in other places.
    I use NPC's far too little to remember theese things, thank you for correcting me. But other than NPC reactions (which can be walked around by using someone else to talk) I can't think of a single dialogue outside bard stronghold in BG2 where having under 18 matters.

  • TJ_HookerTJ_Hooker Member Posts: 2,438
    SionIV said:

    harvman11 said:

    SionIV said:



    Charisma only affects dialogue if you have 18 charisma. Anything under 18 charisma is the same dialogues.

    This is not entirely true. Some NPCs (Minsc, I know, for one) will not be willing to join your party unless you have a high enough charisma (it may be total reaction score, which is based on cha and reputation). You can just use a high cha character (which you will have from the beginning of the game) to talk with these people, but it does play a role in other places.
    I use NPC's far too little to remember theese things, thank you for correcting me. But other than NPC reactions (which can be walked around by using someone else to talk) I can't think of a single dialogue outside bard stronghold in BG2 where having under 18 matters.
    I think many conversation options depend on your reaction roll, which receives bonuses (or penalties) from both reputation and charisma. Even if your CHA is less than 18, the exact reaction adjustment will vary with CHA. But as mentioned above, you can always just do the talking with a high CHA party member.

    Charisma also affects store prices. They are determined by the CHA of whichever character is the party leader (not necessarily the character who initiated conversation with the merchant).

    See here for more details: http://www.playithardcore.com/pihwiki/index.php?title=Baldur's_Gate:_Races_and_Stats

  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,686
    I have ran through with several characters, both with low charisma and 18. And i can tell you with certainty that the extra dialogues you get (Candlekeep bolts, friendly arm in antidotes, silkie) are purely from 18 charisma. Doesn't matter your reputation.

  • TJ_HookerTJ_Hooker Member Posts: 2,438
    edited March 2013
    SionIV said:

    I have ran through with several characters, both with low charisma and 18. And i can tell you with certainty that the extra dialogues you get (Candlekeep bolts, friendly arm in antidotes, silkie) are purely from 18 charisma. Doesn't matter your reputation.

    Just tested out the Fuller quest. Had a character with 17 CHA and 12 reputation, did not get the dagger. Reloaded, increased my reputation to 18, got the dagger.

    RAM021
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,686
    TJ_Hooker said:

    SionIV said:

    I have ran through with several characters, both with low charisma and 18. And i can tell you with certainty that the extra dialogues you get (Candlekeep bolts, friendly arm in antidotes, silkie) are purely from 18 charisma. Doesn't matter your reputation.

    Just tested out the Fuller quest. Had a character with 17 CHA and 12 reputation, did not get the dagger. Reloaded, increased my reputation to 18, got the dagger.
    That's the quest with the bolts. So atleast in BG1 those special dialogues are stuck to charisma of 18 or more. Even if you had 9 reputation you would still get it as long as you have 18 charisma.

  • TJ_HookerTJ_Hooker Member Posts: 2,438
    SionIV said:

    TJ_Hooker said:

    SionIV said:

    I have ran through with several characters, both with low charisma and 18. And i can tell you with certainty that the extra dialogues you get (Candlekeep bolts, friendly arm in antidotes, silkie) are purely from 18 charisma. Doesn't matter your reputation.

    Just tested out the Fuller quest. Had a character with 17 CHA and 12 reputation, did not get the dagger. Reloaded, increased my reputation to 18, got the dagger.
    That's the quest with the bolts. So atleast in BG1 those special dialogues are stuck to charisma of 18 or more. Even if you had 9 reputation you would still get it as long as you have 18 charisma.
    Ok, when you said "Candlekeep bolts" in your previous post, you were talking about the Fuller quest, and getting the dagger +1 as a reward right? Because I just showed that you do not need 18 CHA to get the dagger, as long as you have sufficient reputation.

  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,686
    edited March 2013
    TJ_Hooker said:

    SionIV said:

    TJ_Hooker said:

    SionIV said:

    I have ran through with several characters, both with low charisma and 18. And i can tell you with certainty that the extra dialogues you get (Candlekeep bolts, friendly arm in antidotes, silkie) are purely from 18 charisma. Doesn't matter your reputation.

    Just tested out the Fuller quest. Had a character with 17 CHA and 12 reputation, did not get the dagger. Reloaded, increased my reputation to 18, got the dagger.
    That's the quest with the bolts. So atleast in BG1 those special dialogues are stuck to charisma of 18 or more. Even if you had 9 reputation you would still get it as long as you have 18 charisma.
    Ok, when you said "Candlekeep bolts" in your previous post, you were talking about the Fuller quest, and getting the dagger +1 as a reward right? Because I just showed that you do not need 18 CHA to get the dagger, as long as you have sufficient reputation.
    Let me quote what you said.

    "Had a character with 17 cha and 12 reputation, did NOT get the dagger."

    "Reloaded, increased my reputation to 18, got the dagger"

    So you must have written wrong? I'll check it later on when i can get onto the computer i got BG on.

    [Edited] : I stand corrected, 20 reputation and 16 charisma also gives you the option for the dagger.

  • TJ_HookerTJ_Hooker Member Posts: 2,438
    edited March 2013
    SionIV said:

    TJ_Hooker said:

    SionIV said:

    TJ_Hooker said:

    SionIV said:

    I have ran through with several characters, both with low charisma and 18. And i can tell you with certainty that the extra dialogues you get (Candlekeep bolts, friendly arm in antidotes, silkie) are purely from 18 charisma. Doesn't matter your reputation.

    Just tested out the Fuller quest. Had a character with 17 CHA and 12 reputation, did not get the dagger. Reloaded, increased my reputation to 18, got the dagger.
    That's the quest with the bolts. So atleast in BG1 those special dialogues are stuck to charisma of 18 or more. Even if you had 9 reputation you would still get it as long as you have 18 charisma.
    Ok, when you said "Candlekeep bolts" in your previous post, you were talking about the Fuller quest, and getting the dagger +1 as a reward right? Because I just showed that you do not need 18 CHA to get the dagger, as long as you have sufficient reputation.
    Let me quote what you said.

    "Had a character with 17 cha and 12 reputation, did NOT get the dagger."

    "Reloaded, increased my reputation to 18, got the dagger"

    So you must have written wrong? I'll check it later on when i can get onto the computer i got BG on.
    How did I write it wrong? I said that with 17 charisma and 12 reputation you do not get the dagger ("Had a character with 17 cha and 12 reputation, did not get the dagger"), but with 17 charisma and 18 reputation you do get the dagger ("Reloaded, increased my reputation to 18, got the dagger"). Therefore having high reputation is compensating for lack of charimsa.

  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,686
    TJ_Hooker said:

    SionIV said:

    TJ_Hooker said:

    SionIV said:

    TJ_Hooker said:

    SionIV said:

    I have ran through with several characters, both with low charisma and 18. And i can tell you with certainty that the extra dialogues you get (Candlekeep bolts, friendly arm in antidotes, silkie) are purely from 18 charisma. Doesn't matter your reputation.

    Just tested out the Fuller quest. Had a character with 17 CHA and 12 reputation, did not get the dagger. Reloaded, increased my reputation to 18, got the dagger.
    That's the quest with the bolts. So atleast in BG1 those special dialogues are stuck to charisma of 18 or more. Even if you had 9 reputation you would still get it as long as you have 18 charisma.
    Ok, when you said "Candlekeep bolts" in your previous post, you were talking about the Fuller quest, and getting the dagger +1 as a reward right? Because I just showed that you do not need 18 CHA to get the dagger, as long as you have sufficient reputation.
    Let me quote what you said.

    "Had a character with 17 cha and 12 reputation, did NOT get the dagger."

    "Reloaded, increased my reputation to 18, got the dagger"

    So you must have written wrong? I'll check it later on when i can get onto the computer i got BG on.

    [Edited] : I stand corrected, 20 reputation and 16 charisma also gives you the option for the dagger.
    How did I write it wrong? I said that with 17 charisma and 12 reputation you do not get the dagger ("Had a character with 17 cha and 12 reputation, did NOT get the dagger"), but with 17 charisma and 18 reputation you do get the dagger ("Reloaded, increased my reputation to 18, got the dagger"). Therefore having high reputation is compensating for lack of charimsa.
    I apologize, you didn't write wrong. I read it as you took 18 charisma and you got the dagger.

    I'm very sorry about that, and you are right about the reputation / charmisa :)

    TJ_Hooker
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    Note that when testing for this effect, results are not always immediately reproducible, because dialogue reactions depend upon CHA and REP and a random roll (1d5+7) as well, so you don't always get the same result in the same situation.

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