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Stats and Wish Questions

parinho7parinho7 Member Posts: 11
edited March 2013 in Archive (General Discussion)
I am about to begin a new game with a Kensai (dual to Mage on BB2). I have rolled a total of 94 stat points and I can't decide on how to allocate them.

I know Charisma is a dump stat but for roleplaying reasons I'd like to get a score between 12 to 15. But on the other hand there is wish.

So what would you propose to do?

If I put 14 to wis will I be able to cast limited wish with the +1 tome and the ring of folly equipped?

And finally, what is so special about limited wish? Is it you can regain spells or there is more special about it? Is Wish (8th level) worth investing more on wisdom?

Comments

  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,212
    I never found myself casting more than a handful of Wish spells each playthrough, if even that. You can use a potion to get to 18 WIS before you cast the spell easily. The only time you may want some actual WIS (as a non-divine caster) is if you plan on habitually casting Wish (either version), but why you would do that I don't even know.
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    edited March 2013
    parinho7 said:

    I am about to begin a new game with a Kensai (dual to Mage on BB2). I have roll a a total of 94 stat points and I can't decide on how to allocate them.

    I know Charisma is a dump stat but for roleplaying reasons I'd like to get a score between 12 to 15. But on the other hand there is wish.

    So what would you propose to do?

    If I put 14 to wis will I be able to cast limited wish with the +1 tome and the ring of folly equipped?

    And finally, what is so special about limited wish? Is it you can regain spells or there is more special about it? Is Wish (8th level) worth investing more on wisdom?

    Limited wish isn't really that useful, it's mainly to get that hidden side quest.

    Wish is the real winner here, and the most powerful spell in the game. If you're going to make a Kensai/mage and you're planning on using wish, then you want 18 wisdom and the +3 from tomes to end up with 21. Get another from watchers keep and then another in hell and you should have 22-24 wisdom.

    You can wish for refreshing your spells. So you use all the spells you got, timestop and everything. Then you cast wish and you wish for more spells, and voila your spell book is full again and everything is memorized. It's one of the reasons a naked sorcerer/mage can go through long fights like melissan without trouble alone.

    The higher wisdom you have, the more options will come forward when you talk to the Djinnie. And the higher wisdom you have the higher the chanse is of getting a good reaction to your wish.
  • PibaroPibaro Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 2,989
    How you come to 24?
    18 + 3 in bg1 + 1 (watcher's keep) + 1 (hell) is 23. Did you type wrong or did I miss one?
  • TJ_HookerTJ_Hooker Member Posts: 2,438
    edited March 2013
    parinho7 said:

    If I put 14 to wis will I be able to cast limited wish with the +1 tome and the ring of folly equipped?

    The ring of folly is cursed, and sets your wisdom to 3, so you don't want to be wearing it (actually inflicts feeblemind, so I'm not sure if you'd even be able to cast spells). I think you'll be able to cast wish regardless of your wisdom, but the results are better with higher wisdom. Depending on how often you want to use cast is, you can always just use potions of insight to set your wisdom to 18 (they last for several in-game hours, IIRC) before you cast.
    SionIV said:

    If you're going to make a Kensai/mage and you're planning on using wish, then you want 18 wisdom and the +3 from tomes to end up with 21. Get another from watchers keep and then another in hell and you should have 22-24 wisdom.

    The higher wisdom you have, the more options will come forward when you talk to the Djinnie. And the higher wisdom you have the higher the chanse is of getting a good reaction to your wish.

    I'm not positive, but I've read a number of places that Wish doesn't benefit from wisdom past 18.
  • parinho7parinho7 Member Posts: 11
    TJ_Hooker said:

    parinho7 said:

    If I put 14 to wis will I be able to cast limited wish with the +1 tome and the ring of folly equipped?

    The ring of folly is cursed, and sets your wisdom to 3, so you don't want to be wearing it (actually inflicts feeblemind, so I'm not sure if you'd even be able to cast spells). I think you'll be able to cast wish regardless of your wisdom, but the results are better with higher wisdom. Depending on how often you want to use cast is, you can always just use potions of insight to set your wisdom to 18 (they last for several in-game hours, IIRC) before you cast.
    SionIV said:

    If you're going to make a Kensai/mage and you're planning on using wish, then you want 18 wisdom and the +3 from tomes to end up with 21. Get another from watchers keep and then another in hell and you should have 22-24 wisdom.

    The higher wisdom you have, the more options will come forward when you talk to the Djinnie. And the higher wisdom you have the higher the chanse is of getting a good reaction to your wish.

    I'm not positive, but I've read a number of places that Wish doesn't benefit from wisdom past 18.
    About the ring of folly I thought when I saw it that it was adding 3 to int and wis so, my bad!

    What is the minimum wis required for refreshing spells?
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  • TJ_HookerTJ_Hooker Member Posts: 2,438
    edited March 2013
    parinho7 said:

    TJ_Hooker said:

    parinho7 said:

    If I put 14 to wis will I be able to cast limited wish with the +1 tome and the ring of folly equipped?

    The ring of folly is cursed, and sets your wisdom to 3, so you don't want to be wearing it (actually inflicts feeblemind, so I'm not sure if you'd even be able to cast spells). I think you'll be able to cast wish regardless of your wisdom, but the results are better with higher wisdom. Depending on how often you want to use cast is, you can always just use potions of insight to set your wisdom to 18 (they last for several in-game hours, IIRC) before you cast.
    SionIV said:

    If you're going to make a Kensai/mage and you're planning on using wish, then you want 18 wisdom and the +3 from tomes to end up with 21. Get another from watchers keep and then another in hell and you should have 22-24 wisdom.

    The higher wisdom you have, the more options will come forward when you talk to the Djinnie. And the higher wisdom you have the higher the chanse is of getting a good reaction to your wish.

    I'm not positive, but I've read a number of places that Wish doesn't benefit from wisdom past 18.
    About the ring of folly I thought when I saw it that it was adding 3 to int and wis so, my bad!

    What is the minimum wis required for refreshing spells?
    I believe the way the spell works is that every time you cast it, it generates a list of options from a larger pool, some of which are good options, some of which are bad. Having a high wisdom increases the chances of getting good options. But as far as I know there's no way to ensure that you'll get any individual option.
    Post edited by TJ_Hooker on
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    Pibaro said:

    How you come to 24?
    18 + 3 in bg1 + 1 (watcher's keep) + 1 (hell) is 23. Did you type wrong or did I miss one?

    I was going by memory, knew it was between those stats but couldn't remember if it was 24 or 23. I also had a shapeshifting mod installed at some point that gave the druid +2 wisdom when he got to level 21 so was probably there i got my high numbers from.
    TJ_Hooker said:

    parinho7 said:

    If I put 14 to wis will I be able to cast limited wish with the +1 tome and the ring of folly equipped?

    The ring of folly is cursed, and sets your wisdom to 3, so you don't want to be wearing it (actually inflicts feeblemind, so I'm not sure if you'd even be able to cast spells). I think you'll be able to cast wish regardless of your wisdom, but the results are better with higher wisdom. Depending on how often you want to use cast is, you can always just use potions of insight to set your wisdom to 18 (they last for several in-game hours, IIRC) before you cast.
    SionIV said:

    If you're going to make a Kensai/mage and you're planning on using wish, then you want 18 wisdom and the +3 from tomes to end up with 21. Get another from watchers keep and then another in hell and you should have 22-24 wisdom.

    The higher wisdom you have, the more options will come forward when you talk to the Djinnie. And the higher wisdom you have the higher the chanse is of getting a good reaction to your wish.

    I'm not positive, but I've read a number of places that Wish doesn't benefit from wisdom past 18.
    Having wisdom 18 will make it so that atleast one good option appear, but the more you have the higher chanses for more options.

  • bbearbbear Member Posts: 1,180
    Can I wish rest at 3 wisdom?
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    bbear said:

    Can I wish rest at 3 wisdom?

    No, at that wisdom you won't have any good options to pick from.
  • SpaceInvaderSpaceInvader Member Posts: 2,125
    bbear said:

    Can I wish rest at 3 wisdom?

    If you mean "rest in peace", yes.
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,212
    I never really understood why you'd need to use Wish on a regular basis, given how easy resting is in BG2. Heck, you can even rest at the Throne of Bhaal itself! But I suppose as a pure caster, playing solo... it could come in handy.

    As a Kensai->Mage though, as OP plans, you really shouldn't need to use Wish. You unload even just half your arsenal, and othing will survive, not even bacteria.
  • bbearbbear Member Posts: 1,180
    Really? Cant wish rest w/ 3 wisdom? Edwin once successfully wish rest in my game w/o any boost to his wisdom. I thought that 18 wisdom gives you at least 1 guarantee good option and wisdom below 18 gives you a chance of getting good options. Three wisdom pt should give you a small chance...maybe the chance of a lottery...
  • LuigirulesLuigirules Member Posts: 419
    Now, I haven't had Edwin in my party since that time I SK'd him into an archer, but I'm pretty sure he has more than three wisdom.
  • aldainaldain Member Posts: 325
    Lots of disinformation here.

    The only thing that affects your options from Wish is your Wisdom. WIS 18 means you'll always get at least one favorable option. If you've got lower wisdom, you may still get many good options, but you may also end up with nothing but bad ones. WIS above 18 won't matter as far as Wish is concerned.

    If you're playing a good-aligned character and want to use Wish in ToB without relying on potions, you need a minimum of 13 starting WIS. Get +3 from tomes in BG1, +1 from Hell trial, and +1 from Watcher's Keep, and you're at 18.
    Likewise, if you're evil, you'll want minimum 14 (+3 from tomes, +1 from Watcher's Keep).

    Personally I like to start at WIS 14/15 respectively as good/evil, that way you can reserve the WIS boost in Watcher's Keep for a cleric/druid.
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    edited March 2013
    aldain said:

    Lots of disinformation here.

    The only thing that affects your options from Wish is your Wisdom. WIS 18 means you'll always get at least one favorable option. If you've got lower wisdom, you may still get many good options, but you may also end up with nothing but bad ones. WIS above 18 won't matter as far as Wish is concerned.

    If you're playing a good-aligned character and want to use Wish in ToB without relying on potions, you need a minimum of 13 starting WIS. Get +3 from tomes in BG1, +1 from Hell trial, and +1 from Watcher's Keep, and you're at 18.
    Likewise, if you're evil, you'll want minimum 14 (+3 from tomes, +1 from Watcher's Keep).

    Personally I like to start at WIS 14/15 respectively as good/evil, that way you can reserve the WIS boost in Watcher's Keep for a cleric/druid.

    Having a wisdom over 18 gives you a chanse to get more favorable options. So having 21 is more benificial than having 18.

    We had a discussion on the Bioware social forum a long time ago, and after some tests people ended up with more good options the higher wisdom they had. And my own experience with running sorcerer and mages through SoA/ToB have been that having 22 (Tomes + lums) did give me more reliable options and more of them than having 18 did.

    My Swash / Wizard had 22
    My Kensai / Wizard had 18.

    But if you can prove that i'm wrong, i would gladly listen. I'm always up for learning things, or correcting old information.

    [Edited] I just did some testing with different wisdom scores .

    I did not take the ones that helped both your party and the enemy.

    Wis 18 - (26 good)

    2 good .
    4 good .
    3 good .
    2 good .
    2 good .
    4 good .
    2 good .
    2 good .
    2 good .
    3 good .

    Wis 22 - (31 good)

    4 good .¨
    4 good .
    3 good .
    2 good .
    3 good .
    3 good .
    3 good .
    4 good .
    4 good .
    1 good (!)

    Wis 25 - (29 good)

    1 good (!)
    1 good (!)
    3 good .
    4 good .
    4 good .
    3 good .
    2 good .
    4 good .
    4 good .
    3 good .

    As you can see Wis 22 also scored higher than Wis 25.

    This is just a small pool, you would have cast wish over 1 000 times to get a somewhat accurate idea. I'm not going to be quick loading and doing wish 970 times more so i'll leave it with this.

    In my personal experience, having a higer wisdom has helped me when casting wish. But even with all my wish castings in the years i have played, i haven't done it nearly as many times as you should have to come up with reliable answer.

    Having wis 18 is still great, and more than enough. Whatever wisdom you have (18-25) there is still a chanse that you won't got to refresh your spell book, and that chanse is what will kill you in the end, not having the higher wisdom.

    I also did not take into consideration if you got more spesific wishes following your wisdom. Then there is also, what do you classify as 'better' getting an item in your bag, having improved wisdom on your whole team, everyone getting 25 in all stats or refreshing your whole spell book.
    Post edited by SionIV on
  • aldainaldain Member Posts: 325
    SionIV said:

    aldain said:

    Lots of disinformation here.

    The only thing that affects your options from Wish is your Wisdom. WIS 18 means you'll always get at least one favorable option. If you've got lower wisdom, you may still get many good options, but you may also end up with nothing but bad ones. WIS above 18 won't matter as far as Wish is concerned.

    If you're playing a good-aligned character and want to use Wish in ToB without relying on potions, you need a minimum of 13 starting WIS. Get +3 from tomes in BG1, +1 from Hell trial, and +1 from Watcher's Keep, and you're at 18.
    Likewise, if you're evil, you'll want minimum 14 (+3 from tomes, +1 from Watcher's Keep).

    Personally I like to start at WIS 14/15 respectively as good/evil, that way you can reserve the WIS boost in Watcher's Keep for a cleric/druid.

    Having a wisdom over 18 gives you a chanse to get more favorable options. So having 21 is more benificial than having 18.

    We had a discussion on the Bioware social forum a long time ago, and after some tests people ended up with more good options the higher wisdom they had. And my own experience with running sorcerer and mages through SoA/ToB have been that having 22 (Tomes + lums) did give me more reliable options and more of them than having 18 did.

    My Swash / Wizard had 22
    My Kensai / Wizard had 18.

    But if you can prove that i'm wrong, i would gladly listen. I'm always up for learning things, or correcting old information.

    [Edited] I just did some testing with different wisdom scores .

    I did not take the ones that helped both your party and the enemy.

    Wis 18 - (26 good)

    2 good .
    4 good .
    3 good .
    2 good .
    2 good .
    4 good .
    2 good .
    2 good .
    2 good .
    3 good .

    Wis 22 - (31 good)

    4 good .¨
    4 good .
    3 good .
    2 good .
    3 good .
    3 good .
    3 good .
    4 good .
    4 good .
    1 good (!)

    Wis 25 - (29 good)

    1 good (!)
    1 good (!)
    3 good .
    4 good .
    4 good .
    3 good .
    2 good .
    4 good .
    4 good .
    3 good .

    As you can see Wis 22 also scored higher than Wis 25.

    This is just a small pool, you would have cast wish over 1 000 times to get a somewhat accurate idea. I'm not going to be quick loading and doing wish 970 times more so i'll leave it with this.

    In my personal experience, having a higer wisdom has helped me when casting wish. But even with all my wish castings in the years i have played, i haven't done it nearly as many times as you should have to come up with reliable answer.

    Having wis 18 is still great, and more than enough. Whatever wisdom you have (18-25) there is still a chanse that you won't got to refresh your spell book, and that chanse is what will kill you in the end, not having the higher wisdom.

    I also did not take into consideration if you got more spesific wishes following your wisdom. Then there is also, what do you classify as 'better' getting an item in your bag, having improved wisdom on your whole team, everyone getting 25 in all stats or refreshing your whole spell book.
    I think I have to recant here. I was certain I'd read that more than 18 WIS doesn't matter, but now I can't find it (thought I'd seen it in Dan Simpson's legendary BG2 FAQ).

    I'd very much like to see a link to the post you consider proof that more than 18 WIS matters though. Hopefully this proof includes going through several hundred iterations at the least, as anecdotal evidence (along the lines of "When I have more than 18 WIS I seem to get better wishes") is just that, anecdotal.
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    edited March 2013
    aldain said:

    SionIV said:

    aldain said:

    Lots of disinformation here.

    The only thing that affects your options from Wish is your Wisdom. WIS 18 means you'll always get at least one favorable option. If you've got lower wisdom, you may still get many good options, but you may also end up with nothing but bad ones. WIS above 18 won't matter as far as Wish is concerned.

    If you're playing a good-aligned character and want to use Wish in ToB without relying on potions, you need a minimum of 13 starting WIS. Get +3 from tomes in BG1, +1 from Hell trial, and +1 from Watcher's Keep, and you're at 18.
    Likewise, if you're evil, you'll want minimum 14 (+3 from tomes, +1 from Watcher's Keep).

    Personally I like to start at WIS 14/15 respectively as good/evil, that way you can reserve the WIS boost in Watcher's Keep for a cleric/druid.

    Having a wisdom over 18 gives you a chanse to get more favorable options. So having 21 is more benificial than having 18.

    We had a discussion on the Bioware social forum a long time ago, and after some tests people ended up with more good options the higher wisdom they had. And my own experience with running sorcerer and mages through SoA/ToB have been that having 22 (Tomes + lums) did give me more reliable options and more of them than having 18 did.

    My Swash / Wizard had 22
    My Kensai / Wizard had 18.

    But if you can prove that i'm wrong, i would gladly listen. I'm always up for learning things, or correcting old information.

    [Edited] I just did some testing with different wisdom scores .

    I did not take the ones that helped both your party and the enemy.

    Wis 18 - (26 good)

    2 good .
    4 good .
    3 good .
    2 good .
    2 good .
    4 good .
    2 good .
    2 good .
    2 good .
    3 good .

    Wis 22 - (31 good)

    4 good .¨
    4 good .
    3 good .
    2 good .
    3 good .
    3 good .
    3 good .
    4 good .
    4 good .
    1 good (!)

    Wis 25 - (29 good)

    1 good (!)
    1 good (!)
    3 good .
    4 good .
    4 good .
    3 good .
    2 good .
    4 good .
    4 good .
    3 good .

    As you can see Wis 22 also scored higher than Wis 25.

    This is just a small pool, you would have cast wish over 1 000 times to get a somewhat accurate idea. I'm not going to be quick loading and doing wish 970 times more so i'll leave it with this.

    In my personal experience, having a higer wisdom has helped me when casting wish. But even with all my wish castings in the years i have played, i haven't done it nearly as many times as you should have to come up with reliable answer.

    Having wis 18 is still great, and more than enough. Whatever wisdom you have (18-25) there is still a chanse that you won't got to refresh your spell book, and that chanse is what will kill you in the end, not having the higher wisdom.

    I also did not take into consideration if you got more spesific wishes following your wisdom. Then there is also, what do you classify as 'better' getting an item in your bag, having improved wisdom on your whole team, everyone getting 25 in all stats or refreshing your whole spell book.
    I think I have to recant here. I was certain I'd read that more than 18 WIS doesn't matter, but now I can't find it (thought I'd seen it in Dan Simpson's legendary BG2 FAQ).

    I'd very much like to see a link to the post you consider proof that more than 18 WIS matters though. Hopefully this proof includes going through several hundred iterations at the least, as anecdotal evidence (along the lines of "When I have more than 18 WIS I seem to get better wishes") is just that, anecdotal.
    I'll see if i can find the thread. Just so you know Dan Simpson's legendary FAQ has a couple of flaws and faults, so it isn't 110% perfect. As i also mentioned earlier you would first have to test out in a much larger sample, and after that you would have to see which answers you could give to the Djinnie. There might be more "Grants you item" depending on what wisdom you have, the same can be said for the "Ressurect all dead party members" .

    We had several people through their different games try out the wish spell (Some of which ran the solo sorcerer ascension runs), and say what they found out. The old thread is in no way binding, as i don't even think back then we had a big enough sample. But neither is a FAQ and as much as i love Dan Simpsons and use some of his FAQ's myself, the guy has a couple of wrong things in his guide. Even his most beloved Final Fantasy 7 (Which i use myself) guide has several faults in it.

    So unless there is a way to prove with infinity, there really is no way to know who is right or wrong. Unless someone here would like to try your hand on wishing 1000+ times.

    In the old thread we would write down everytime we used a wish, and what options we had available. I would think we all in all had about 200-300 wishes or more. It was quite the long thread.

    [Edited] : There have been quite many people saying that in their experience, having higher wisdom have given them better results. If you're saying "No, it doesn't work" then you're certain of this and then the proving has to be done by you.

    I'm not saying that you're wrong, or that i'm right. What i'm saying is that if you can give a factual answer of "No" then i would like to know where you got it from. And Dan Simpsons FAQ isn't enough unless you can show us how he found out this bit of information.

    I still think that you either have to dig in Infinity, or have wished very many times for a more accurate %.

    [Edited 2] : Also, why would it stop at 18? You get more lore bonus from going all the way up to 25, same with cleric bonus spells. Strenght doesn't stop giving you a bonus until you reach 25.

    The closest thing would be the chanse to write a spell into your spell book based on intelligence.

    18 : 85%
    19 : 95%
    20 : 96%
    21 : 97%
    22 : 98%
    23 : 99%
    24 : 100%
    25 : 100%

    So if you gain that 1% from 19 to 20 intelligence. Why wouldn't it be possible to also have a little extra chanse at getting good answers with the wish spell?

    19 = 95% (This is like 18 wisdom for wish, as an example)
    20 = 96% (The increase is so small that you barely notice it, yet it's still a very minor increase)

    I took the chanse to learn spells from http://playithardcore.com/pihwiki/index.php?title=Baldur's_Gate:_Races_and_Stats#Recommended_Statistics_by_Class_4 . Under intelligence
    Post edited by SionIV on
  • aldainaldain Member Posts: 325
    SionIV said:


    I'll see if i can find the thread. Just so you know Dan Simpson's legendary FAQ has a couple of flaws and faults, so it isn't 110% perfect. As i also mentioned earlier you would first have to test out in a much larger sample, and after that you would have to see which answers you could give to the Djinnie. There might be more "Grants you item" depending on what wisdom you have, the same can be said for the "Ressurect all dead party members" .

    We had several people through their different games try out the wish spell (Some of which ran the solo sorcerer ascension runs), and say what they found out. The old thread is in no way binding, as i don't even think back then we had a big enough sample. But neither is a FAQ and as much as i love Dan Simpsons and use some of his FAQ's myself, the guy has a couple of wrong things in his guide. Even his most beloved Final Fantasy 7 (Which i use myself) guide has several faults in it.

    So unless there is a way to prove with infinity, there really is no way to know who is right or wrong. Unless someone here would like to try your hand on wishing 1000+ times.

    In the old thread we would write down everytime we used a wish, and what options we had available. I would think we all in all had about 200-300 wishes or more. It was quite the long thread.

    [Edited] : There have been quite many people saying that in their experience, having higher wisdom have given them better results. If you're saying "No, it doesn't work" then you're certain of this and then the proving has to be done by you.

    I'm not saying that you're wrong, or that i'm right. What i'm saying is that if you can give a factual answer of "No" then i would like to know where you got it from. And Dan Simpsons FAQ isn't enough unless you can show us how he found out this bit of information.

    I still think that you either have to dig in Infinity, or have wished very many times for a more accurate %.

    First bold: Obviously I can't dispute people's personal experiences. I just wish we could have a little less anecdotes and a little more facts in these threads. It's the same issue that infects threads regarding to failure chance when scribing a scroll. Everyone posts about how they feel the mechanic is wonky and obviously can't be anywhere near the percentages given, but provides nothing to back up their claims.
    Kind of ironic I'm guilty of this myself previously in this thread...

    Second bold: As I said, I recanted my position, meaning I'm no longer claiming that WIS above 18 doesn't matter, because I simply don't have enough evidence to support it.

    What would settle the matter is if someone from Overhaul could find the time to actually look at the code and give us a definitive answer, I'd quite like that.
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    aldain said:

    SionIV said:


    I'll see if i can find the thread. Just so you know Dan Simpson's legendary FAQ has a couple of flaws and faults, so it isn't 110% perfect. As i also mentioned earlier you would first have to test out in a much larger sample, and after that you would have to see which answers you could give to the Djinnie. There might be more "Grants you item" depending on what wisdom you have, the same can be said for the "Ressurect all dead party members" .

    We had several people through their different games try out the wish spell (Some of which ran the solo sorcerer ascension runs), and say what they found out. The old thread is in no way binding, as i don't even think back then we had a big enough sample. But neither is a FAQ and as much as i love Dan Simpsons and use some of his FAQ's myself, the guy has a couple of wrong things in his guide. Even his most beloved Final Fantasy 7 (Which i use myself) guide has several faults in it.

    So unless there is a way to prove with infinity, there really is no way to know who is right or wrong. Unless someone here would like to try your hand on wishing 1000+ times.

    In the old thread we would write down everytime we used a wish, and what options we had available. I would think we all in all had about 200-300 wishes or more. It was quite the long thread.

    [Edited] : There have been quite many people saying that in their experience, having higher wisdom have given them better results. If you're saying "No, it doesn't work" then you're certain of this and then the proving has to be done by you.

    I'm not saying that you're wrong, or that i'm right. What i'm saying is that if you can give a factual answer of "No" then i would like to know where you got it from. And Dan Simpsons FAQ isn't enough unless you can show us how he found out this bit of information.

    I still think that you either have to dig in Infinity, or have wished very many times for a more accurate %.

    First bold: Obviously I can't dispute people's personal experiences. I just wish we could have a little less anecdotes and a little more facts in these threads. It's the same issue that infects threads regarding to failure chance when scribing a scroll. Everyone posts about how they feel the mechanic is wonky and obviously can't be anywhere near the percentages given, but provides nothing to back up their claims.
    Kind of ironic I'm guilty of this myself previously in this thread...

    Second bold: As I said, I recanted my position, meaning I'm no longer claiming that WIS above 18 doesn't matter, because I simply don't have enough evidence to support it.

    What would settle the matter is if someone from Overhaul could find the time to actually look at the code and give us a definitive answer, I'd quite like that.
    I couldn't agree with you more. Would be lovely if someone that works/have worked on the game or can get the information from the game engine, then we would have proof.

    I actually wish that you didn't get anything from having more than 18 wisdom, as that would make it much easier to get the stats for an arcane caster. If i could stay with 18 wisdom (Which i might after having seen how lttle difference there is once you get above that) then i got 4 stats to put onto something else instead.
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,212
    Tbh I think that Wish is not a strong enough argument to warrant taking out stat points out of any useful other stat to put them into WIS. If you take them out of irrelevant stats, though (i.e. CHA, or CON>16 if non-fighter) then by all means go for it. There are enough potions in the game to get you to 18 WIS if you REALLY need to cast Wish. And even if you do benefit from >18 (which I'm not convinced you are), the benefit would be so marginal it's irrelevant in the face of the spell's inherent RNG.

    Luckily, the class that probably wants to chain Wish the most is Sorcerer, and they are also the class with the most stats to dump (since they don't need high INT). So if you go Sorcerer, by all means, get max WIS. But don't pop Tomes or Lum for it if you have divine casters with you; they still benefit the most from WIS, by far.
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    Lord_Tansheron said:

    Tbh I think that Wish is not a strong enough argument to warrant taking out stat points out of any useful other stat to put them into WIS. If you take them out of irrelevant stats, though (i.e. CHA, or CON>16 if non-fighter) then by all means go for it. There are enough potions in the game to get you to 18 WIS if you REALLY need to cast Wish. And even if you do benefit from >18 (which I'm not convinced you are), the benefit would be so marginal it's irrelevant in the face of the spell's inherent RNG.

    Luckily, the class that probably wants to chain Wish the most is Sorcerer, and they are also the class with the most stats to dump (since they don't need high INT). So if you go Sorcerer, by all means, get max WIS. But don't pop Tomes or Lum for it if you have divine casters with you; they still benefit the most from WIS, by far.

    Wish isn't that important if you're in a party with several NPC's. It starts to truly shine when you're solo on a mage or sorcerer, and then it's probably the most powerful spell in the game.

    Limited wish is nice for getting a free full plate armor and a secret side quest.
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,212
    The value rises in solo play to be sure, but even there I'm not convinced you need it. You level so quickly during solo that you have all the tools you need, and I can't recall many fights where you'd need to recharge your spellbook during combat. The quest and item rewards are nice indeed, but easily gotten with a potion.
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    Lord_Tansheron said:

    The value rises in solo play to be sure, but even there I'm not convinced you need it. You level so quickly during solo that you have all the tools you need, and I can't recall many fights where you'd need to recharge your spellbook during combat. The quest and item rewards are nice indeed, but easily gotten with a potion.

    You can't get through Ascension without having it on a sorceror or Wizard.
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,212
    Actually CAN'T, or just very hard? Either way, when you really do go solo Sorc or Mage, you can invest points; it also means you have no competition for Tomes/Lum's, so it's easy to do.
  • AHFAHF Member Posts: 1,376
    edited March 2013
    Someone can further continue this but here is my testing.

    Parameters

    I used Edwin at 18 wisdom, 22 wisdom and 25 wisdom.

    "Good" results were: Create potion, create wand, double time stop and alacrity, breach all enemies and party members: restoration, 25 stats, resurrection, hardiness, greater death blow, improved haste, memorized spells.

    "Not Good" results were: Lose 10K, Drain 2 levels from party, party wisdom to 3, half caster HP, enemies improved haste, and Enemies and Party: Horrid wilting, heal, bad luck, breach, intoxicated, miscast magic, magic resistance, 18 strength.

    Numbers reported are "good" results over 50 tests.

    Results

    18 Wisdom Edwin
    Average Result: 2.24
    Median Result: 2
    0 - 6%
    1 - 20%
    2 - 32%
    3 - 30%
    4 - 10%
    5 - 2%

    22 Wisdom Edwin
    Average Result: 2.30
    Median Result: 2
    0 - 0%
    1 - 18%
    2 - 40%
    3 - 36%
    4 - 6%
    5 - 0%

    25 Wisdom Edwin
    Average Result: 2.30
    Median Result: 2
    0 - 2%
    1 - 18%
    2 - 36%
    3 - 36%
    4 - 8%
    5 - 0%

    Cumulative Edwin Results (150)
    Average Result: 2.28
    Median Result: 2
    0 - 2.7%
    1 - 18.7%
    2 - 36%
    3 - 34%
    4 - 8%
    5 - 0.7%

    Conclusion

    A larger sample size would yield stronger results, but these 150 tests don't suggest any statistically significant difference in wisdom above 18.
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    Lord_Tansheron said:

    Actually CAN'T, or just very hard? Either way, when you really do go solo Sorc or Mage, you can invest points; it also means you have no competition for Tomes/Lum's, so it's easy to do.

    You can't. Ascension makes you fight so many enemies before you even reach Melissan, you would have used up all your spells before even getting half way through if you solo.
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