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The most epic Mage/Cleric

In this moment I don't have time to play, but when I will have it I want know exactly what character I want to have!

I want to create the most epic Mage/Cleric in the universe to play him throw BG:EE and BG2:EE. And I have some doubts (if there would be Aasimar race I woudn't have it).

1. Dual class or multi class?
2. If dual class on which level dual (the first class would be cleric).
3. If multi class what race I should take (In this moment I cannot check it what race I'm able to choose)...

I want to have highest possible scores for INT, WIS and CHA so I'm quite sceptical about races that have penalties to this stats...

What do you think?
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Comments

  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    I believe the only races that can do this multi-class are gnomes and half-elves. Gnomes are, I think, better due to the fact they get to be a specialist mage kit (Illusionist), and their bonus saving throws. Gnomes get a -1 WIS penalty, however, and considering Wisdom actually *does* give you bonus spells (unlike INT), that's a bit of a penalty (of course, you get 3 WIS tomes in BG1, which offsets it somewhat). Half-elves get 30% resistance to charm and sleep, but that's it. Overall, Gnome is a better choice for the multi-class.
    NifftJuliusBorisovKidCarnivalQuartz
  • MokonaMokona Member Posts: 72
    edited March 2013
    Multi-class, no question. Race: Half-elf. Gnomes can do it, but your mage half is illusionist (eww) and you also get a penalty to wisdom, not that a big a deal cuz of tomes, but, whatever.

    Enjoy :D


    SCARY_WIZARD
  • HadarHadar Member Posts: 93
    Aerie is a Mage/Cleric elf, but I don't know if is legal.

    I though about a gnome, but the WIS penalty is a pain in my eye.


    And what about the Playing Cards of Multiple Things (I don't know how is named in English version) - the card Star to what stat will give mi point If I am a dual class or multi-class
  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    Aerie's class is illegal for elves (I believe there's some rule that says that Avariel can be Cleric/Mages, which someone mentioned on here once, which is why it is legal 'for her' as it were).

    But yeah, sadly *you* cannot be an elven cleric/mage.
  • MokonaMokona Member Posts: 72
    Yeah they got away with it cuz of the Avariel thing.
  • NocturneNNocturneN Member Posts: 123
    @Hadar

    It's not. Likewise, Minsc has too low WIS to legally be a Ranger.

    If you plan on dualling from Cleric -> Mage you'll have to suffice with no Cleric HLAs and that you will become pretty much a Mage with Clerical backup. I think, overall, a multi-class would serve you best. No idea when you should dual to Cleric!

    Honestly, 1 extra spell here and there might seem like much in BG1, but in late SoA/ToB you will have so many spell slots you wont know what to put in them. Atleast, that was how I felt. ^^

    Curios: What great spells do Illusionists lose? Besides Abi-Dalzim that is.
  • MokonaMokona Member Posts: 72
    Necromancy spells:

    Chill Touch (Lvl 1)
    Larloch’s Minor Drain (Lvl 1)
    Ghoul Touch (Lvl 2)
    Horror (Lvl 2)
    Hold Undead (Lvl 3)
    Skull Trap (Lvl 3)
    Vampiric Touch (Lvl 3)
    Contagion (Lvl 4)
    Spirit Armor (Lvl 4)
    Animate Dead (Lvl 5)
    Death Spell (Lvl 6)
    Control Undead (Lvl 7)
    Finger Of Death (Lvl 7)
    Abi Dalzim’s Horrid Wilting (Lvl 8)
    Energy Drain (Lvl 9)
    Wail Of The Banshee (Lvl 9)
    QuartzT2av
  • HadarHadar Member Posts: 93
    edited March 2013
    @NocturneN
    My goal is not to used maximum of potential of mage/cleric, but create the most epic one :> So that one point hurts... Gnome would be ideal if not that WIS penalty.

    And what about the Playing Cards of Multiple Things (I don't know how is named in English version) - the card Star to what stat will give mi point If I am a dual class or multi-class.

    And will be some new races added in new patch?
  • Aasimar069Aasimar069 Member Posts: 803
    Hadar said:

    In this moment I don't have time to play, but when I will have it I want know exactly what character I want to have!

    I want to create the most epic Mage/Cleric in the universe to play him throw BG:EE and BG2:EE. And I have some doubts (if there would be Aasimar race I woudn't have it).

    1. Dual class or multi class?
    2. If dual class on which level dual (the first class would be cleric).
    3. If multi class what race I should take (In this moment I cannot check it what race I'm able to choose)...

    I want to have highest possible scores for INT, WIS and CHA so I'm quite sceptical about races that have penalties to this stats...

    What do you think?


    I don't know if you were referring to that, but in second edition, contrary to third edition, charisma is useless for priest.

    So you only need to have a very high wisdom and intelligence to be effective in this role.

    It *can* be interesting to give 15 str to your character if you want to be strong enough to carry large shields like +1 +4 vs projectiles or so on.

  • KingGhidorahKingGhidorah Member Posts: 199
    Keep in mind that gnomes do get a bonus to intelligence. This in addition to one bonus spell per level for being a specialized (illusionist) wizard.
    Something to keep in mind when comparing him to half-elf IMHO.
  • Aasimar069Aasimar069 Member Posts: 803
    Hadar said:

    Aerie is a Mage/Cleric elf, but I don't know if is legal.

    I though about a gnome, but the WIS penalty is a pain in my eye.


    And what about the Playing Cards of Multiple Things (I don't know how is named in English version) - the card Star to what stat will give mi point If I am a dual class or multi-class


    IIRC, it's the Deck of many things in English.
  • HadarHadar Member Posts: 93
    edited March 2013
    Every my charname has max CHA - I just play in this way. The only stat that I will on spare is STR. In BG1 I will give him gloves, in BG2 Crom Faeyr.

    @Aasimar069
    What it is IIRC?

    And what stat will give Star Card from Deck of Many Things to a Dual-Class and what to a Multi-Class?
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,673
    edited March 2013
    1.) Never dual class a cleric/mage. Always go multi class.
    2.) Don't dual class.
    3.) Use half elf, Abi Dalzim’s Horrid Wilting will be the one spell that you can deal the most damage with, and it's AoE. It's not worth losing out on those spells just for an extra wizard spell slow. You'll have so many spells with those two classes combined anyway.

    If i remember right, it's something like this with the deck :

    If you're dual class, you get it in your active class. If you're multi class there is a priority based on what stat you get. It's Intelligence -> Wisdom -> Strength -> Dexterity.

    So it's something like this :

    F/C -> Wisdom
    F/T -> Strength
    C/M -> Intelligence
    F/M -> Intelligence
    T/M -> Intelligence
    C/T -> Wisdom
    R/C -> Wisdom

    And so on. You'll never get dexterity as a multi class.
  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    I think it'll give you Wisdom. I believe it gives you whichever is first on the list.
  • HadarHadar Member Posts: 93
    So multi-class half-elf... hmmm

    It there any info about new races/subraces in upcoming patches?

    @SionIV
    ad. 2. Why I should do not dual class at all?
  • Aasimar069Aasimar069 Member Posts: 803
    Hadar said:

    Every my charname has max CHA - I just play in this way. The only stat that I will on spare is STR. In BG1 I will give him gloves, in BG2 Crom Faeyr.

    @Aasimar069
    What it is IIRC?

    And what stat will give Star Card from Deck of Many Things to a Dual-Class and what to a Multi-Class?


    With thousands of save and reloads, I was never lucky enough to have the correct cards for the stats upgrades, so I let this possibility go away...

    IIRC is an acronym for If I Recall Correctly (IIRC - lol). But I'm not a native English user so I might be mistaken. ;-)
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,673
    edited March 2013

    I think it'll give you Wisdom. I believe it gives you whichever is first on the list.

    He would get Intelligence. As it's Int -> Wis -> Str -> Dex

    Hadar said:

    So multi-class half-elf... hmmm

    @SionIV
    ad. 2. Why I should do not dual class at all?


    Because then you would have to dual class from cleric to mage. And i would atleast level up to level 25 as cleric to get the special ring they get. And i don't think i have to tell you how boring it would be to do 26 levels as mage to reach that cleric class again.

    [Edited] : Ofcourse you would have to be able to reach that level (Level cap remove or something) .

    To put it short, staying a C/M will make you powerful the whole game through. If you dual class you'll be weak(er) for quite a long time. And you gain absolutely nothing from dual classing.

  • BerconBercon Member Posts: 486
    Somebody here pointed out that in BG2 the most powerful mage/cleric combo is Wild Mage/Cleric.

    You can start as human Wild Mage, go to level 22 which is 4 500 000 exp. Then dual to Cleric and you'll get level 23 at 3 375 000. Which is 7 875 000 in total, the cap being 8 000 000.
  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    Except Wild Mages can't dual in the vanilla game.
  • IkMarcIkMarc Member Posts: 552
    I would take a Gnome. You will get shorty saves and a +1 on intelligence. The -1 on wisdom won't really matter since you will get +3 from tomes to make up from it.

    You can shadowkeep it to a cooler specialist mage (like I did to conjurer). Then you will definitely have an epic Mage/Cleric ^^

    Oh and multiclass
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,673
    Bercon said:

    Somebody here pointed out that in BG2 the most powerful mage/cleric combo is Wild Mage/Cleric.

    You can start as human Wild Mage, go to level 22 which is 4 500 000 exp. Then dual to Cleric and you'll get level 23 at 3 375 000. Which is 7 875 000 in total, the cap being 8 000 000.

    The difference when it comes to that high level between a WM/cleric and a mage/cleric is like...

    Do you want to shoot a guy 23 times, or 27?

    Everything in the game is easy with a C/M, you really can't make it any easier so playing a cleric dual classed to a wild mage is purely for statistics and what fun you can do with the dweomers.

    It really isn't worth dual classing a cleric to a mage.

  • Copastetic1985Copastetic1985 Member Posts: 277
    I just finished a dual-classed Cleric/Mage run, and it was fun. Of course, I only did it specifically for BG:EE and, I don't intend to carry him over to BG2:EE.

    Priest of Helm 7, Mage 8. Extremely fun. Plenty of defense through Cleric spells, True Sight, some offense there as well, mixed with some Skeletons. Then you have the purely offensive side for Mage spells. Sure, I miss out on level 5 spells for Mage, but oh well. I'm not a Cloudkill fan.

    And if all else fails, buff him with Mirror Image, Stoneskin, some Cleric spells, and throw on Seeking Sword and go at it.
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,673
    edited March 2013

    Except Wild Mages can't dual in the vanilla game.

    There is a mod (BG2 tweak?) that let's the barbarian and Wild Mage dual class. There really is no reason they shouldn't be able to, and i think it was ment for them to be able to do it but just never got made into the game until someone opened it up through a mod.
    IkMarc said:

    I would take a Gnome. You will get shorty saves and a +1 on intelligence. The -1 on wisdom won't really matter since you will get +3 from tomes to make up from it.

    You can shadowkeep it to a cooler specialist mage (like I did to conjurer). Then you will definitely have an epic Mage/Cleric ^^

    Oh and multiclass

    You don't want to lose out on Abi Dalzim’s Horrid Wilting . And the saving throws would have been great on anyone other than a cleric or mage. The mage and cleric got spells to remove the need for saving throws against anything in the game.

    Chaotic Command -> Immune to Charm, Confuse, Psionic stuns, maze and much more.
    Death Ward -> Immune to all death spells.
    Free Action -> Immune to all slow and hold spells.
    Protection from Petrification -> Immune to petrification effects.
    Spell immunity Abjuration -> Immune to Imprison.
    Negative plane protection -> Immune to level drain.

    If you know what you're doing, you can go into any fight without ever losing control of your character or even taking damage. The arcane spells really are ridiculously powerful in this game, now give him cleric spells like chaotic command and death ward and you're going to be impossible to move or kill.
  • HadarHadar Member Posts: 93
    edited March 2013
    1. I want to play full legit vanilla BG:EE.
    2. I want to make this character epic, but it don't have to be the easiest game :P Ale the character may become epic just before end of the game...
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,673
    Hadar said:

    1. I want to play full legit vanilla BG:EE.
    2. I want to may this character epic, but don't have to be the easiest game :P

    1.) Then make a multi class C/M half elf.
    2.) Long answer comming under.

    C/M is a powerful and great combo to play. They are alright at low level, mid level they start to get good. But it's at high level that they truly shine. If you're going to play solo then the C/M will get powerful very quickly, and it will be easy at times. If you play with a party then he's not going to be that powerful until you reach the middle, and very powerful at the end of ToB.

    So it really does depend on if you play in a party or you play alone. But whatever you end up playing a C/M is a great class to play.
  • HadarHadar Member Posts: 93
    As for now I see it like this: lawfull good, male, half-elf, multi-class mage/cleric

    Minimum stats that I want:

    STR: 6
    DEX: 18
    CON: 16
    INT: 18
    WIS: 18
    CHA: 18

    The stats which I really want to roll:

    STR: 8
    DEX: 18
    CON: 18 (in BG2 I get regeneration, in BG1 I can use Claw of Kazgaroth without negative effects)...
    INT: 18
    WIS: 18
    CHA: 18
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,673
    edited March 2013
    Hadar said:

    As for now I see it like this: lawfull good, male, half-elf, multi-class mage/cleric

    Minimum stats that I want:

    STR: 6
    DEX: 18
    CON: 16
    INT: 18
    WIS: 18
    CHA: 18

    The stats which I really want to roll:

    STR: 8
    DEX: 18
    CON: 18 (in BG2 I get regeneration, in BG1 I can use Claw of Kazgaroth without negative effects)...
    INT: 18
    WIS: 18
    CHA: 18

    1.) Why do you want so high charisma, are you playing solo?
    2.) STR is a good stat to use as a dump stat. You can use the gauntlets in BG1 and you get a belt early in BG2.
    3.) I would probably do something like

    STR : XX

    DEX : 17 (You get the tome in BG1 to turn it into 18, the next AC bonus you get is from 21 and you'll never reach that as C/M) [Edited] : You will reach that with DUHM, but my point still stands.

    CON : 15 (You get the tome in BG1 to make this into 16. You're going to use ring of wizardry and RoP +2. You won't have space for the claw, and you don't need it) The regeneration from 20 constitution is so low, that you will only notice it when you sleep. You get DUHM as a cleric (Or bhaalspawn power) for early regeneration, and you get the Ring of Gaxx in BG2 for some nice regeneration. You don't want more than 15 in con.

    INT : 18
    WIST : 18
    CHA : XX

    Normally i would leave CHA at 10 and use anything over the needed and put it in strenght.

    [Edited] :

    STR: 10
    DEX: 17
    CON: 15
    WIS: 18
    INT: 18
    CHA:18

    This would be 96. You can get 92 without rolling too much, that would put your STR 6.
  • HadarHadar Member Posts: 93
    1) I always play 18 CHA, charname is always the leader :P
    2) I know. In BG2 I will use Crom Faeyr
    3)

    DEX: if 19 I get bonus to distance weapon (useful when I will slingshot) and bonus to reaction. I would like to have it in BG1 (I know that DEX 20 gives nothing)

    CON: I know that regeneration in BG2 will be slow, but natural regeneration is quite epic :P And I will have Claw earlier than RoP+2 :> But I can leave it lower it I wont be lucky rolling :P

    CHA: I play always 18, cuz I like it this way. And there is for me no difference between 8 and 15 STR
  • bill_zagoudisbill_zagoudis Member Posts: 207
    edited March 2013
    multi class half-elf is the way to go imo
    as for the stats be patient and reroll a bit,personally i think you need about 90 total, as for str make sure you can equip whatever you want 1st (if Robe of Vecna is not available you'll want to use elven chainmail in BG2)

    oh and why would you use Crom Faeyr? Staff of the Magi is much better,it's not like you will actually hit anything with all the spells you'll have
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,704
    Using Mokona's list, here's my opinion on losing these spells:

    Chill Touch (Lvl 1) - lol who cares
    Larloch’s Minor Drain (Lvl 1) - very minor inconvenience very early game
    Ghoul Touch (Lvl 2) - lol who cares
    Horror (Lvl 2) - minor loss, wands can get you this
    Hold Undead (Lvl 3) - I don't typically use this but it has its uses. Not a big loss.
    Skull Trap (Lvl 3) - It sucks to lose this one!
    Vampiric Touch (Lvl 3) - Somewhat disappointing losing this.
    Contagion (Lvl 4) - lol who cares
    Spirit Armor (Lvl 4) - It's barely any better than Ghost Armor. That said yes it's still somewhat sad losing this.
    Animate Dead (Lvl 5) - This spell has been changed and nerfed so much I have no idea whether or not it's any good any more.
    Death Spell (Lvl 6) - This is a sad spell to lose as it makes enemies using Monster Summoning a complete joke. Great spell.
    Control Undead (Lvl 7) - I don't typically use this but it has its uses. Not a big loss.
    Finger Of Death (Lvl 7) - Somewhat useful from time to time. Somewhat disappointing losing this.
    Abi Dalzim’s Horrid Wilting (Lvl 8) - It sucks HARDCORE to lose this one!
    Energy Drain (Lvl 9) - lol who cares
    Wail Of The Banshee (Lvl 9) - meh

    Long story short: Illusionist is a good class, although you lose out on a couple rather choice spells. It's certainly one of the better specialist mages. Besides I would imagine you'll have more than one Arcane caster.

    Furthermore, on the "wah, only 20 Wisdom by end-game BG1, oww my OCD!" thing, http://playithardcore.com/pihwiki/index.php?title=Baldur's_Gate:_Races_and_Stats#Wisdom
    by not getting up to 21 Wisdom you are missing out on 1 Third level and 1 Fifth level Priest spell. By using a half-elf, you are missing out on 1 spell per damn level of Arcane magic. You will have 7 less spells overall by going the half-elf route.

    Furthermore, everyone and their dog is a half-elf and whatever else. Shorties are cool and original. GO WITH A GNOME!
    EudaemoniumGawdzilla
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