Stats -> Level-Up Mechanics

Iecerint

As I understand it, the only statistic that has a compounding effect with level-ups is Constitution. In other words, the effect of Constitution on HP between a player who has 18 CON from level 1-5 and one who has 10 CON from level 1-5 and then suddenly has 18 at level 5 would be different, because the effect of CON on HP gained per level is computed at the moment of each level-up and is not modified retroactively if CON is modified.

Are there any other statistics that have this effect? For example, are the effects of INT and WIS on spells known computed at level-up, or are their effects "instantaneous" at each level?

Thanks.

moody_mage

All stat increases will be retroactively calculated, these retroactive calculations are done at level up.

TJ_Hooker

Bonus HP from CON is added retroactively, so in your example both characters would have the same HP.

Iecerint

Hmm, that's interesting.

Does that mean that you could theoretically see no HP boost or HP decrement, if you had an excellent HP roll the previous level and a terrible one on the subsequent level?

lunar

That's why the most optimised cleric/mage/thief/bard builds start with 15 constitution. You get the tome to reach 16 and that's the final bonus for a non-fighter. Only warrior types benefit from a CON higher than 16.

Ofcourse if you are one of the small folk, having 16+ Con is better since you get saving throw bonuses based on CON. Also, a dwarf or half orc can start with 19 CON, and reach 20 with the tome to enjoy regeneration. A 20 con character will regenerate his wounds slowly, in between area transfer travel times, often healing completely.

It should be noted also that if you lose CON, you lose extra hp too. If your familiar dies and your mage drops from 16 con to 15, he will retroactively lose one maximum hit point for every level he has. Along with familiar bonus hitpoints, ofcourse.

TJ_Hooker

Iecerint said:

Hmm, that's interesting.

Does that mean that you could theoretically see no HP boost or HP decrement, if you had an excellent HP roll the previous level and a terrible one on the subsequent level?

If you get a CON increase that results in extra HP per level (e.g. going from 14 to 15 CON), you will always gain HP (or vice versa if you're decreasing CON). So a level 8 character that increases there CON from 14 to 15 (+1 HP/level) will gain 8 HP the instant the CON increase occurs.

AHF

Iecerint said:

Hmm, that's interesting.

Does that mean that you could theoretically see no HP boost or HP decrement, if you had an excellent HP roll the previous level and a terrible one on the subsequent level?

TJ Hooker is right.

In addition, the HPs from leveling up are tracked separately by BG than the HP from Con so they are largely independent from one another.

Iecerint

Ah, OK. It sounds like HPs from leveling up per se are randomized and have nothing to do with CON, and CON provides an independent HP boost based on the relation between current level and CON.

I was thinking that at each level CON affected the randomized HP boost at level up (hence, leveling up could theoretically lower HP if the randomization was very favorable and then very unfavorable at successive level-ups, if the process was always applied retroactively at each level-up), but it looks like this is mistaken.

Instead, the HP randomization, which is NOT retroactively altered, has nothing to do with CON, and CON provides an instantaneous HP boost on top of that, and that boost interacts with level to determine the degree of boost.

reedmilfam

I'm not sure about the question re: retroactive adjustments. WIS is also retroactive - you gain extra spells for earlier levels along with the current levels, if that makes sense. INT increases your spells per level and is also retroactive (although the scrolls that were failed are not re-rolled).

What other retroactive effect would be expected? The game can't go back in time and re-do 'to hit' rolls or damage rolls after a strength increase. Similarly, a DEX increase won't have an effect.

Hope I'm making sense.

lunar

You got it right. If you have Shar-teel quaff a potion of fortitude, she can suddenly get a huge increase in her hit points, for she'll gain +4 hp for each level she has, as long as potion is ineffect.

Iecerint

I was mainly concerns about the retroactive effects of CON. Specifically, I thought that HP-leveling and HP-CON were linked. Instead, they are independent, but HP-CON is moderated by level, which had produced my confusion.

Hence, for example, delaying leveling until additional CON tomes are eaten doesn't make sense.

I put the open-ended question in there in case there was some other twist on this that I hadn't appreciated.

Starlily

Reading the above, where can you buy potions of Fortitude? I haven't gotten to Balder's Gate yet. I found one as a random treasure and need more for the explicative deleted weak constitution Bard, Garrick. He's always getting tired! Oh, and how much are they? Mage in High Hedge didn't have any.

lunar

There are quite a few to be found in various chests and treasure piles. IIRC bandit camp locked chests have a few fortitude potions.

Grakkel

Just a note that there's a certain shield you can get in the Friendly Arm Inn that gives a +1 CON bonus. Had a PC with 18 Con, and combined that with the manual of bodily health and the shield to get up to 20 Con. Since the character is a cleric/illusionist, there are no extra HP, but it does trigger regeneration. Of course if the shield ever goes away, no more regen, but pretty cool for now!

Iecerint

Hmm? Where's this shield? I can give it to Viccy.

Eudaemonium

You just buy it in the FAI. Why would you give it to Viccy, though? Her Con is too low for it to make any difference, it is also a buckler and has no missile defence.

Iecerint

MC is dual-wielding, Dorn is two-handing, and Kagain already has 20 CON (but maybe it could go here instead?), which leaves Viconia. I thought it might at least give her a little HP, but I suppose I should check the tables.

I don't remember seeing such a shield for sale there, but I guess I could check again...my current game was made before the most recent patch, so some features could be missing.

Eudaemonium

It's called 'Buckley's Buckler'. You're better off giving her a small shield, though, since the +1 Con isn't enough to give her bonus HP (need 15+ for that), or getting her a Str boost and giving her a larger shield.

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Starlily

Humm, I don't remember that shield being at the inn. I'll have to look next time I'm there. My poor bard is so weak and gets so tired it's beginning to be annoying but I like having him around to 'lore' items and use his crossbow.

AHF

Starlily said:

Humm, I don't remember that shield being at the inn. I'll have to look next time I'm there. My poor bard is so weak and gets so tired it's beginning to be annoying but I like having him around to 'lore' items and use his crossbow.

It is a new item in BGEE.

Quartz

You can never go wrong with giving Kagain the tome if your PC has no need for it. He'll get slightly faster regeneration and more importantly, +6 HP/level (as opposed to his current +5 HP/level).

lunar said:

That's why the most optimised cleric/mage/thief/bard builds start with 15 constitution. You get the tome to reach 16 and that's the final bonus for a non-fighter. Only warrior types benefit from a CON higher than 16.

Personally I go for 17, tome to 18 for those classes so that I can use the Claw of Kazgaroth.

Starlily

Finished the Cloakwood mines and went to the inn. Yes, it was there. Just didn't notice it or didn't have the bard with me at the time. Now, I have to switch him back and forth when he needs to use that crossbow!