Dev questions - Not strictly BGEE related
xenavire
Member Posts: 30
Before I launch into this, sorry for the huge post, and I want to thank the devs working on restoring this game, and adding enhancments, it brings back a lot of memories (especially the frustrating ones! I forgot how hard this game was!)
But I wanted to ask, as I have only seen rumors going around, how far are you currently (I have to stress currently) planning to go with enhancing the games from Black Isle? (Baldurs gate and Icewind dale most importantly.)
I understand you currently working on BG2EE, so that isn't the focus of my question, but Icewind dale and Icewind dale 2 - often the underrated sibling to baldurs gate, the series does have its own charm, and I would really like to know if you plan to work on it at all? And if so, will you only enhance part 1, or also part 2?
I am not only here to talk about remakes, but also possibilities - assuming you remake/restore Icewind dale 1+2, would you consider reworking the whole of icewind dale to 3.5 rules? (I realise this would be a much larger undertaking than adding the content from BG2 to BG1 - the systems are entirely different, ruleset 2 versus ruleset 3.0/3.5... They are so different it is almost like day and night.) However, the reason I am asking this now, is the idea of carrying over an IWD1 party to IWD2 is very attractive, and the 3.5 ruleset fits the style of IWD much better than Baldurs gate (Icewind dale being typically more hack and slash and linear than baldurs gate.)
Next question, relating to Baldurs gate 3 - What are your current plans for ruleset? I sounds as though you want to let players to carry thier progress over from BG2EE, which suggests ruleset 2? Just asking for clarification.
Another big question before I get carried away - which rulesets and games are you actually allowed to use? The way it currently seems, every new edition seems to cycle out the old ones - are they then open source for developers? Since I see neverwinter (officially supported by wizards of the coast IIRC) has moved on to 4th (something I greatly dislike) it begs the question, what is now fair game, and what is wizards going to let devs get away with?
And, a huuuge hypothetical, but if you were to work on IWD2 or even continue to IWD3, would you make attempts to add in things left out from the 3.0/3.5 rules? The original devs neglected to include certain important features, and left perks severely lacking. It might not be possible to update IWD2, but a fresh start with IWD3 would allow prestige classes, full integration of skills and feats, and much more things that werent possible with engines avialable at the time.
The last thing on my list of must mentions, to cap off a huge post, is if you make ANY new games, from scratch, fans of any of the games would love you a LOT if you worked hard to integrate modding deeply into the game. DnD was always intended to have all sorts of different DM's making adventures for all sorts of different players, and having a game designed to do exactly that... Imagine for a moment, thousands of DM's making fresh content for a game you have put so much work into.
Oh, and on the subject of creating new content, if you could let people craft thier own base classes/prestige classes/items, etc, there would be no end to what could be possible. And trust me, people want to be able to add content - take all the mods for BG1&2, and other games based on DnD like Neverwinter nights... People try to add thier own races, classes, adventures... But those games were NOT user friendly about it, and that discouraged so many people. See how few quality mods are out there that achieve anything apart from bugfixes or weapon packs or followers - adding brand new content is far beyond what most people can manage.
Just take a look at Bethesda as a point of reference - they made the effort to make thier game modder friendly, and it has payed off bigtime. Thousands of mods exist, doing any number of different things, from bugfixes to adding things most people never would have thought of - from gameplay overhauls to new textures, its open for modders to choose. And I can't imagine a single DnD fan who wouldn't love to create thier favorite adventure come to life on-screen, or even shared with hundreds of other players.
Oh, and for the love of god, please keep the top down interface - Neverwinter nights 2 was horrible to control from ANY of its choices, and Neverwinter nights 1 played like an MMO, hardly good for tactical positioning between several friends (and I have tried.) But then thats just my preference, the rest of my post is far more valid.
Oh, and thanks in advance to anyone who responds, any input is welcome, for myself (info, ideas, anything) and of course the devs would never say no to having information about how the fans feel about these ideas and issues... Right?
Regardless of how this post is recieved though, thanks again for the love you put into restoring BG, and I wish you the best with all future projects.
But I wanted to ask, as I have only seen rumors going around, how far are you currently (I have to stress currently) planning to go with enhancing the games from Black Isle? (Baldurs gate and Icewind dale most importantly.)
I understand you currently working on BG2EE, so that isn't the focus of my question, but Icewind dale and Icewind dale 2 - often the underrated sibling to baldurs gate, the series does have its own charm, and I would really like to know if you plan to work on it at all? And if so, will you only enhance part 1, or also part 2?
I am not only here to talk about remakes, but also possibilities - assuming you remake/restore Icewind dale 1+2, would you consider reworking the whole of icewind dale to 3.5 rules? (I realise this would be a much larger undertaking than adding the content from BG2 to BG1 - the systems are entirely different, ruleset 2 versus ruleset 3.0/3.5... They are so different it is almost like day and night.) However, the reason I am asking this now, is the idea of carrying over an IWD1 party to IWD2 is very attractive, and the 3.5 ruleset fits the style of IWD much better than Baldurs gate (Icewind dale being typically more hack and slash and linear than baldurs gate.)
Next question, relating to Baldurs gate 3 - What are your current plans for ruleset? I sounds as though you want to let players to carry thier progress over from BG2EE, which suggests ruleset 2? Just asking for clarification.
Another big question before I get carried away - which rulesets and games are you actually allowed to use? The way it currently seems, every new edition seems to cycle out the old ones - are they then open source for developers? Since I see neverwinter (officially supported by wizards of the coast IIRC) has moved on to 4th (something I greatly dislike) it begs the question, what is now fair game, and what is wizards going to let devs get away with?
And, a huuuge hypothetical, but if you were to work on IWD2 or even continue to IWD3, would you make attempts to add in things left out from the 3.0/3.5 rules? The original devs neglected to include certain important features, and left perks severely lacking. It might not be possible to update IWD2, but a fresh start with IWD3 would allow prestige classes, full integration of skills and feats, and much more things that werent possible with engines avialable at the time.
The last thing on my list of must mentions, to cap off a huge post, is if you make ANY new games, from scratch, fans of any of the games would love you a LOT if you worked hard to integrate modding deeply into the game. DnD was always intended to have all sorts of different DM's making adventures for all sorts of different players, and having a game designed to do exactly that... Imagine for a moment, thousands of DM's making fresh content for a game you have put so much work into.
Oh, and on the subject of creating new content, if you could let people craft thier own base classes/prestige classes/items, etc, there would be no end to what could be possible. And trust me, people want to be able to add content - take all the mods for BG1&2, and other games based on DnD like Neverwinter nights... People try to add thier own races, classes, adventures... But those games were NOT user friendly about it, and that discouraged so many people. See how few quality mods are out there that achieve anything apart from bugfixes or weapon packs or followers - adding brand new content is far beyond what most people can manage.
Just take a look at Bethesda as a point of reference - they made the effort to make thier game modder friendly, and it has payed off bigtime. Thousands of mods exist, doing any number of different things, from bugfixes to adding things most people never would have thought of - from gameplay overhauls to new textures, its open for modders to choose. And I can't imagine a single DnD fan who wouldn't love to create thier favorite adventure come to life on-screen, or even shared with hundreds of other players.
Oh, and for the love of god, please keep the top down interface - Neverwinter nights 2 was horrible to control from ANY of its choices, and Neverwinter nights 1 played like an MMO, hardly good for tactical positioning between several friends (and I have tried.) But then thats just my preference, the rest of my post is far more valid.
Oh, and thanks in advance to anyone who responds, any input is welcome, for myself (info, ideas, anything) and of course the devs would never say no to having information about how the fans feel about these ideas and issues... Right?
Regardless of how this post is recieved though, thanks again for the love you put into restoring BG, and I wish you the best with all future projects.
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Comments
However, @xenavire, there are extensive discussions elsewhere on this forum about most of the issues you raise. Seek and ye shall find.
The devs have stated an ambition to make a BG3, but they can only do it if BGee and BG2ee are sufficiently successful. There's no word on what ruleset, and I think most people here would prefer to keep 2e rules for continuity with the existing BG franchise, but some people would prefer one or other of the newer rulesets, and in any case it's very possible that WotC will refuse a licence for a new game using anything except their newest ruleset (currently in beta-test, due out soon).
The devs haven't declared any specific intention of doing anything with IWD, but since they've now demonstrated their ability by producing BGee, perhaps in future there'll be some negotiations about IWD or PS:T and so on. But at the moment, that's pure speculation. Even if there ever is an Enhanced Edition for IWD1+2, I think ruleset conversion from 2e to 3e/3.5e is very unlikely to be allowed by WotC, I expect they'd insist that the games either stay with their existing rulesets or convert only to the newest ruleset.
All rulesets are open source by their very nature, but they're not public domain. WotC own the copyrights to the rulesets and various types of monsters and so on, and it's up to them to grant (or refuse) licences for devs to use their material.
In the BGee and BG2ee projects, Overhaul have rebuilt the old Infinity Engine to make it more mod-friendly than it was, but it's still far from ideal for modders because it wasn't originally designed that way.
For the potential BG3 project, the devs have said that they'd like to build a whole new engine and make it more thoroughly mod-friendly. But of course, that's only a theoretical development at this time, so what (if anything) they'll really do remains to be seen.
The devs have declared their love for the 2D-isometric style, so yes, they intend to keep the "top down interface". And they've talked about wanting to build completely new games and game-series using the same style, although of course their ability to do that in future depends upon being financially successful with what they're currently doing.
Is that enough to keep you going for now? :-)
I think that if Wotc endorsed games from every ruleset and not just their newest, we might see better quality and a larger range of fantastic games.
Bhaaldog, I have to disagree somewhat. Iwd2 is very close to neverwinter nights, and the neverwinter series was enjoyed by many people who didnt really follow DnD. And ADnD had a lot of complexity that 3.0 and 3.5 fixed - and with more freedom in character creation, the learning curve was maybe steeper, but less punishing. Having more choices and more often means that one bad choice doesn't destroy your game - something I can't claim of ADnD, especially in BG. Choose the wrong time to dual class and you basically have to re-roll, while 3.0/5 are much more forgiving. Had 3.5 come first, people would have the same complaints about BG. It is only a matter of learning in either game.
I know I'm only speaking for myself; my point is, ANY decision on rules will be controversial, and WILL upset some of us.
As it stands, any BG should be 2E, but if Wotc don't like that, it will end up whatever rules Wotc want, it wont be up to player choice sadly. As for IWD3 if it ever were to come, I would prefer to have 3.5, since it is close to 3.0 (I swear there were a few 3.5 features in there somewhere, but it definately wasn't made fully 3.5) but other people might want it to stay 3.0, or revert to 2E, and thats player preference. At the core, its all down to Wotc trying to update things - sometimes it works, sometimes not so well, but no matter what some people get upset. I personally don't understand anything out of 4E, and am greatly dissapointed in how Neverwinter looks (the new pseudo MMO that I am sure every person here has known about for a long time). 4E to me just seems like "pick a template, grab a few superpowers and go crazy" - while I am sure thats a horrible misconception, I haven't had the chance to actually play a 4E game, and would much rather stick with what I am comfortable with - but wishes and reality dont play nice together.
I am just grateful that the dev team is willing to even look at such an old and (by Wotc terms) severely outdated game, and still treat it with such love and care - it is very nice to see.
I do think if there ever was a day the team worked on IWD and IWD2 they should open polls for certain things though - iclusion of HoF mode, possible updates to IWD2 for balance reasons (and new modules would breathe new life into the game).
I personally would love new feats and prestige classing, but I highly doubt the engine could handle those kinds of changes, but a man can dream haha.
Anyway, love how sprited everyone here happens to be - maybe they should open up a section to allow players to meet and greet - to play BGEE and/or set up PnP games? (If that does not already exist - like I said, new and confused.) I also think if the devs had some spare time they could set up a play by post section where they could take part in a few PnP games with the fans - but that might be asking too much of their busy schedules.
Oh, and in future I will try to cut my post length down, I just don't know when to stop!
There's another board specifically geared towards PbP gaming, which is where I usually play: http://www.rpgcrossing.com
It's been a while since I've had time to actively game there, but it's a good community, and many of the people from this one are also members there (and vice versa).
I should have a look at either finding or starting a game there... I have a great non-DnD story I am working on, I could easily make a parallel story... Only issue is I am good at story and RP, but I am quite terrible with making maps and following the DnD rules - I tend to make stuff up on the fly.
If anyone would be interested, just leave a message here - I haven't decided anything yet.
Game will be 3.5 rules, due to preference, and will be RPG heavy, combat light.
Link to thread --> http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/17680/3-5-far-from-canon-heavy-roleplay-game