Backstabbing with a thief.

franco

Does a thief need to be hiding in shadows before they backstab? Sometimes I have thief hiding in shadows, but if I select the weapon to backstab, he/she comes out of shadows. What are the proper mechanics of backstabbing?

TJ_Hooker

In order to backstab you need to:
-Be invisible. This can be from stealth or magic. I'm pretty the Sanctuary spell doesn't work for this.
-Be behind the enemy.
-Have a melee weapon that is usable by a vanilla thief.

With regards to leaving shadows when you change weapons, that's more just an annoying engine quirk than anything. You can get around this by swapping weapons in the inventory screen, rather than using the quickslots. For the most part you're better off switching to an appropriate weapon before you enter stealth. If you're invisible via magic, you can switch weapons to your heart's content and not break invisibility.

Edit: If you're invisible via stealth, you'll also want to maneuver into position behind the enemy before you click to attack. This is because as soon as you click to attack, your thief begins leaving shadows. After this happens, you only have a few seconds before you become visible.

CaptRory

First, you need to be using the right kind of weapon. Any melee weapon a pure class thief can use will work. Then go invisible or stealthed behind your target. You need to be behind them. Then pause the game and order the attack. If you hit coming out of hiding you'll get a damage multiplier.

Dexter

Well that is pretty much how it works. Just position yourself behind your target (important) and attack. I usually pause the game before selecting attack, it helps.
You will come out of shadow, but not immediately, you always make one to hit roll while invisible, and if you hit then the damage multiplier is applied

ZanathKariashi

Some enemies are also immune to backstab (and can see through all forms of invisibility/stealth). Dragons, Demons (including Demon knights and Cambions), Beholders, Kuo-toa (not really immune, but they can see through stealth, making it very tricky to BS them and not worth the effort), mists, some shades, some golems, Vampires aren't immune but their AI causes them to run around randomly when an undetectable character is in their presence, making getting a back-stab on them ridiculously hard, unless they're engaged in combat with another character.

For BG1, it's not a huge issue, since there's only a handful of immune enemies, much more relevant in late BG2 though.

Oxford_Guy

ZanathKariashi said:

Some enemies are also immune to backstab (and can see through all forms of invisibility/stealth). Dragons, Demons (including Demon knights and Cambions), Beholders, Kuo-toa (not really immune, but they can see through stealth, making it very tricky to BS them and not worth the effort), mists, some shades, some golems, Vampires aren't immune but their AI causes them to run around randomly when an undetectable character is in their presence, making getting a back-stab on them ridiculously hard, unless they're engaged in combat with another character.

For BG1, it's not a huge issue, since there's only a handful of immune enemies, much more relevant in late BG2 though.

Which enemies in BG1 are immune to backstab?

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mjs

Samus said:

Oxford_Guy said:

ZanathKariashi said:

Some enemies are also immune to backstab (and can see through all forms of invisibility/stealth). Dragons, Demons (including Demon knights and Cambions), Beholders, Kuo-toa (not really immune, but they can see through stealth, making it very tricky to BS them and not worth the effort), mists, some shades, some golems, Vampires aren't immune but their AI causes them to run around randomly when an undetectable character is in their presence, making getting a back-stab on them ridiculously hard, unless they're engaged in combat with another character.

For BG1, it's not a huge issue, since there's only a handful of immune enemies, much more relevant in late BG2 though.

Which enemies in BG1 are immune to backstab?

As he wrote, Demon Knights and Cambions as they see through invisibility/stealth (or at least they should). I have not play tested this myself though, although I am thinking of doing a thief or bounty hunter run in my next play through...

the demon knight of durlag's tower can't see through invisibility/stealth

Oxford_Guy

Samus said:

Oxford_Guy said:

ZanathKariashi said:

Some enemies are also immune to backstab (and can see through all forms of invisibility/stealth). Dragons, Demons (including Demon knights and Cambions), Beholders, Kuo-toa (not really immune, but they can see through stealth, making it very tricky to BS them and not worth the effort), mists, some shades, some golems, Vampires aren't immune but their AI causes them to run around randomly when an undetectable character is in their presence, making getting a back-stab on them ridiculously hard, unless they're engaged in combat with another character.

For BG1, it's not a huge issue, since there's only a handful of immune enemies, much more relevant in late BG2 though.

Which enemies in BG1 are immune to backstab?

As he wrote, Demon Knights and Cambions as they see through invisibility/stealth (or at least they should). I have not play tested this myself though, although I am thinking of doing a thief or bounty hunter run in my next play through...

What about if you wear the cloak of non-Detection?

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Zanian

Mobs that can see through invisibility aren't necessarily immune to backstabs. Just get their attention using a different char, and as long as you're behind them and invisible, the backstab should work (unless of course, they ARE immune to backstabs).
And yeah, the cloak of non-detection won't work against those who can see through regular stealth/invisibility.

smeagolheart

the cloak of non-detection prevents mages from detecting illusions. I've played BG2 and had a stealthed thief with cloak of non detection on go into the planar sphere where Tolgerias was waiting. Tolgerias would continuously cast true seeing but my stealthed thief could just stand next to him and wasn't revealed. Because of the cloak.

If an enemy can see invisible through normal means, then the cloak doesn't do anything.

TJ_Hooker

Oxford_Guy said:

Which enemies in BG1 are immune to backstab?

Off the top of my head, golems and slimes. Probably a couple others that I'm forgetting.

Edit: Looks like flesh golems are not immune to backstab, and I think they're the only kind of golem in BG1.

kamuizin

the flesh golems aren't immune to backstab if i'm not wrong.

TJ_Hooker

You are correct. I had just assumed they were, as I thought all golems were immune. Are there any golems in BG1 besides flesh golems?

smeagolheart

TJ_Hooker said:

You are correct. I had just assumed they were, as I though all golems were immune. Are there any golems in BG1 besides flesh golems?

pretty sure there are some stone golems... hmmm.. trying to remember where tho. Durlags or baldur's gate city maybe? I could be wrong

kamuizin

There are none, only flesh golems. I'm pretty sure of it, but add a Stone Golem at the end of the game (or in some point of Durlag's Tower) could raise a bit the challenge of the game.

Oxford_Guy

smeagolheart said:

the cloak of non-detection prevents mages from detecting illusions. I've played BG2 and had a stealthed thief with cloak of non detection on go into the planar sphere where Tolgerias was waiting. Tolgerias would continuously cast true seeing but my stealthed thief could just stand next to him and wasn't revealed. Because of the cloak.

If an enemy can see invisible through normal means, then the cloak doesn't do anything.

Thanks for clarifying @smeagolheart I assume this also means that thieves with high Detect Illusions score are unaffected by the Cloak of Non-Detection?

smeagolheart

@Oxford_Guy I don't think there are any hostile thieves that use detect illusions in the entire saga. As I mentioned, I stood next to Tolgerias as he repeatedly cast true seeing and he didn't see me, however, it appears that other people have not had the same experience according to this thread. I was playing a modified BG2 so it could be that this was a component of one of the fixpacks I played with - or it could be that the poster in the other thread was wrong. All I know is it worked for me.

edit: on the other hand, this thread seems to support my experience with it a bit more...

ZanathKariashi

There's 2 thieves in the whole game who use Detect illusion, one in the planar prison, and one in the underdark....and it apparently is a scripted ability, rather then the actual detect illusion skill being used (cloak of Non-detection works vs their scripted version, but not vs an actual players detect illusion..but requires you to put CoND on a npc, kick them out of the party, turn them invisible, then use detect illusion to remove it).