Avenger vs Shapeshifter

jalden

How does the sword spider's AC/thac0/damage output compare to a werewolf's AC/thac0/damage? I know the werewolf's thac0 uses the druids normal thac0 progression, but I"m insure whether or not that is also true for the sword spider. Thank you!

zur312

sword spider is great antimage - poison someone - no spells for you
always hastend
great at microing just hit once for poison and run, he will die eventually

werewolf is great like all fighters - hits hard and he is faster than regual character too

dunno about your question on thac0 but this is my experience

i think avenger could be more "fun" to play with mage spells and swordspider-ss

werewolf is more stable like normal fighter

mjs

if you're asking about bg:ee the sword spider does not have a poison attack, if you use the bg2 tweaks mod you'll get the "proper" werewolf shape shift.

i've played through with the avenger and it was hella fun. i mostly used the kit's bonus mage spells, with jahiera as a back-up healer. my avenger really worked for back up offensive spells and when she got level 5 spells, ironskins+swordspider+haste is a lovely melee combo especially if you cast web before hand as the sword spider won't be held but your enemies will!

also improved invisibility is fairly underused as a combat spell. it confers +4 bonus to saving throws and enemies attacks receive a -4 to hit rolls for 10 rounds. so it's not just for backstabs you know!

ShapiroKeatsDarkMage

Avengers assemble!

elminster

Yea you are better off going with the avenger. The werewolf just isn't worth it without mods. Plus avengers get web, which is vastly superior to entangle and is frankly one of the most useful spells throughout the whole series.

kamuizin

Sword spider doesn't have poison. Both kits sucks in my opinion, Druid class to me only deserve respect when multi/dual or even used as the single kit.

Totemic Druid is the only that have some use, but even that one isn't too good.

I like to dual class fighters to druid (would like if mages could become druids, really don't know why they can't).


If you want to try a werewolf, there's a cheese way to do that if they didn't fixed it yet.

After become a werewolf, use a dispel magic of enough level on the werewolf and his claws are replaced by the weapon you druid used before shapeshift. The game code the werewolf claws as summoned weapons (as flame blade), so you can dispel them and yet you keep the increased attacks per round if i'm not wrong.

Not much useful with the crap items on BG, but surelly awesome on BG2 ultimate items.

zur312

kamuizin said:

Sword spider doesn't have poison. Both kits sucks in my opinion, Druid class to me only deserve respect when multi/dual or even used as the single kit.

Totemic Druid is the only that have some use, but even that one isn't too good.

I like to dual class fighters to druid (would like if mages could become druids, really don't know why they can't).


If you want to try a werewolf, there's a cheese way to do that if they didn't fixed it yet.

After become a werewolf, use a dispel magic of enough level on the werewolf and his claws are replaced by the weapon you druid used before shapeshift. The game code the werewolf claws as summoned weapons (as flame blade), so you can dispel them and yet you keep the increased attacks per round if i'm not wrong.

Not much useful with the crap items on BG, but surelly awesome on BG2 ultimate items.

pure druid get 5th level spells = iron skin = uber tank


totemic druid is only slightly better than normal druid = better summons

still sword spider is really good with constant haste and like 4apr?
avenger has cool spells from mages so he is even better than normal druid
werewolf is maybe underpowered at bg1 level and i can't argue because i only played shapeshifter in bg2
but still -
faster movement
not bad stats
not bad apr
+ druidic spells level 5
etc.

in terms of power bg1
avenger>shapeshifter>summoner>pure