@Nifft: I dunno, Dorn's deal with the devil (or demon, more accurately: he has an Abyssal patron) comes after he talks rather gleefully of mass-murder. He's clearly evil. He just also seems to have principles like 'don't sell out your allies and hunt them down like dogs if they sell out you'.
@Eudaemonium - I actually had the same impression of Dorn being a quasi-neutral at start, but then he was betrayed by "friends" and a girl he thought liked him, so he had to make a pact with the devil to get out, which sent him on his roaring rampage of revenge, where you meet him.
Apparently, he is not very suave in his dealing with other people and he knows it, which is visible when he asks you for help in Nashkell. All in all...I can't wait what happens with Dorn in BG2.
i do think Rasaad is under rated though. while i dont like him as much as neera he has an good story even if his mannerisms are a bit dry. i all ways play good so never tried dorm
@Eudaemonium - I actually had the same impression of Dorn being a quasi-neutral at start, but then he was betrayed by "friends" and a girl he thought liked him, so he had to make a pact with the devil to get out, which sent him on his roaring rampage of revenge, where you meet him.
Gleefully slaughtering every man, woman, and child in a village is "quasi-neutral"?
@Eudaemonium - I actually had the same impression of Dorn being a quasi-neutral at start, but then he was betrayed by "friends" and a girl he thought liked him, so he had to make a pact with the devil to get out, which sent him on his roaring rampage of revenge, where you meet him.
Gleefully slaughtering every man, woman, and child in a village is "quasi-neutral"?
Did he take their stuff?
It's not evil if you're just killing things to take their stuff.
Evil kills without taking, or takes without killing.
@Eudaemonium - I actually had the same impression of Dorn being a quasi-neutral at start, but then he was betrayed by "friends" and a girl he thought liked him, so he had to make a pact with the devil to get out, which sent him on his roaring rampage of revenge, where you meet him.
Gleefully slaughtering every man, woman, and child in a village is "quasi-neutral"?
Did he take their stuff?
It's not evil if you're just killing things to take their stuff.
Evil kills without taking, or takes without killing.
Can't say I agree with your reasoning, but no, I'm fairly sure they did not pillage, just wholesale slaughter of peasants for shits-and-giggles. Well, something about getting back at a Baron or somesuch who was responsible for that region, but still :P
@Eudaemonium - I actually had the same impression of Dorn being a quasi-neutral at start, but then he was betrayed by "friends" and a girl he thought liked him, so he had to make a pact with the devil to get out, which sent him on his roaring rampage of revenge, where you meet him.
Gleefully slaughtering every man, woman, and child in a village is "quasi-neutral"?
Did he take their stuff?
It's not evil if you're just killing things to take their stuff.
Evil kills without taking, or takes without killing.
I can't tell if you're serious, but the primary reason he did it wasn't to take their stuff. It was a show of power for the local lords. As he tells it: "Standing among the corpses like gods of destruction, I smiled because I felt the ecstasy of triumph."
I can't tell if you're serious, but the primary reason he did it wasn't to take their stuff. It was a show of power for the local lords. As he tells it: "Standing among the corpses like gods of destruction, I smiled because I felt the ecstasy of triumph."
Um yes. If you murder people just to make sure that it "teaches a lesson" to your enemies, is definitely evil.
@GandalfPortraitGuy I was responding to Nifft (didn't see Sylph's post). Look at my post before that one for where I stand on this. Anyway, quoted for accuracy.
@GandalfPortraitGuy I was responding to Nifft (didn't see Sylph's post). Look at my post before that one for where I stand on this. Anyway, quoted for accuracy.
@Eudaemonium - I actually had the same impression of Dorn being a quasi-neutral at start, but then he was betrayed by "friends" and a girl he thought liked him, so he had to make a pact with the devil to get out, which sent him on his roaring rampage of revenge, where you meet him.
Gleefully slaughtering every man, woman, and child in a village is "quasi-neutral"?
Did he take their stuff?
It's not evil if you're just killing things to take their stuff.
Evil kills without taking, or takes without killing.
I can't tell if you're serious, but the primary reason he did it wasn't to take their stuff.
@Jalily - D&D is commonly known as the game in which the PCs "kill things and take their stuff". This description of the game is tongue-in-cheek humor, and my comment is in the same vein.
... but I will note that my Paladin's kill count includes every visible resident of a certain Xvart village which wasn't particularly in his way.
If i had to choose out of the four,i would take Dorn.Though to be honest he is a tad OP,after a few levels he just ploughs through everything near enough on his own.Thus stealing everyone elses thunder.
Raasad and Baeloth don't really appeal to me,one's way OP and the other a total gimp and as for Neera. Total pain in the backside.Don't get me wrong i've tried her but after twenty minutes my assassin couldn't take anymore.Just STFU,followed by a poisoned backstab.
Glad that the Devs added four though,gives everyone the 'each to their own' option.
If i had to choose out of the four,i would take Dorn.Though to be honest he is a tad OP,after a few levels he just ploughs through everything near enough on his own.Thus stealing everyone elses thunder.
Raasad and Baeloth don't really appeal to me,one's way OP and the other a total gimp and as for Neera. Total pain in the backside.Don't get me wrong i've tried her but after twenty minutes my assassin couldn't take anymore.Just STFU,followed by a poisoned backstab.
Glad that the Devs added four though,gives everyone the 'each to their own' option.
In my game with Beatrice, the Mage, Dorn had 70 percent of the kills of the entire party.
Dorn was a real disappointment to me. He lacks clear motivation as a character, which is boring and unimaginative on the writers' part. Sure, a lot of other evil NPCs in BG1 also lack clear motivation, but they also have barely anything written up for them, so it's not unexpected. Meanwhile we have Dorn, who's supposed to be interesting or some such, but just plain isn't.
Instead he just seems like a half-rate BG2 Throne of Bhaal ToB Sarevok. Very similar characters, but without any sort of clear motivation.
I prefer Rasaad. Like someone said earlier, he's got an adorkable romance, an interesting quest, and I find his voiced lines to be wonderful. The part where he's like, "Oh, you're teasing me.... You ARE teasing me, right?" makes me want my Character to go, "Wouldn't you like to know?" with her eyelids at half-mast. Neera is just plain annoying. Cheerful, yes, but she gets on my nerves. A lot. I haven't taken Baeloth, and Dorn got killed in the mines (chunked by a Kobold, no less!) the one time I took him along. Rather than dragging along his dead body, I ended up jettisoning him for Xan. (unkindest cuts and all, yes, yes.)
Hate is such a strong word, but my opinion of them is that they are wildly inappropriate for the environment of BG1. The differences between them and the classic NPCs are far too obvious, that having them in a party is often a jarring experience. They really should have been designed to follow the conventions of the BG1 NPCs where they have one off dialogue lines and a series of compliment/insult banter lines. To have detailed text boxes pop up in a party where Jaheira, Khalid, Xzar and Montaron are all saying their one liners isn't the most cohesive experience.
I tolerate Baeloth because he is the closet to a classic NPC but his nature as an easter egg makes him too much of an enigma. It's hard to justify him traveling throughout Baldur's Gate for anything other than fan service. I liked him in the context of the Black Pits but in BG1 he lacks purpose or even a backstory relevant to the game's events. It's strange but I feel like NPCs like Kivan who has a context comprising of a short bio and some one liners has more depth or relevance than the new NPCs.
It's also frustrating that the new areas are linked to them, so if you want to experience the new content you have to drag them along. I think I would be able to enjoy them in the context of BG2 where their NPC style wouldn't feel so out of place and where their quests can truly be elaborated on. But in BG1:EE I end up killing the new NPCs on sight and looting their corpses just to remove them from the events of the game.
Hate is such a strong word, but my opinion of them is that they are wildly inappropriate for the environment of BG1. The differences between them and the classic NPCs are far too obvious, that having them in a party is often a jarring experience. They really should have been designed to follow the conventions of the BG1 NPCs where they have one off dialogue lines and a series of compliment/insult banter lines. To have detailed text boxes pop up in a party where Jaheira, Khalid, Xzar and Montaron are all saying their one liners isn't the most cohesive experience.
I tolerate Baeloth because he is the closet to a classic NPC but his nature as an easter egg makes him too much of an enigma. It's hard to justify him traveling throughout Baldur's Gate for anything other than fan service. I liked him in the context of the Black Pits but in BG1 he lacks purpose or even a backstory relevant to the game's events. It's strange but I feel like NPCs like Kivan who has a context comprising of a short bio and some one liners has more depth or relevance than the new NPCs.
It's also frustrating that the new areas are linked to them, so if you want to experience the new content you have to drag them along. I think I would be able to enjoy them in the context of BG2 where their NPC style wouldn't feel so out of place and where their quests can truly be elaborated on. But in BG1:EE I end up killing the new NPCs on sight and looting their corpses just to remove them from the events of the game.
Oh my goodness can I make sweet, passionate love to this post?? This is EXACTLY how I feel! I still like the NPCs as a whole, but they really do stick out like a sore toe to be completely honest. They'll be awesome in the context of BGII, but yes, they feel extremely out of place in BG1.
Also dumb shtuff like Neera having the Gem Bag, Elven Chain and the best Bastard Sword in the game being apart of Dorn's quest line (which is the weapon of choice for Ajantis), ughhh. Just so much fail.
@Quartz It does seem to be rather awkward to hold such an opinion of BG1:EE because you want to be overly supportive but can't help but notice certain inconsistencies or shortcomings. It would have been interesting to see the NPCs stripped back as if they were made in the 90s, so when they pop up in BG2:EE they'd undergo the same jump in character development as Viconia, Jaheira, Imoen, etc...
Heading into BG2:EE you end up knowing a whole lot more about the new three than you do about any of the other NPCs. It'll be interesting to see how that works out, since a more expansive introduction to these characters took place in BG1 rather than how you get to know someone like Jaheira gradually throughout BG2. There could be a danger with the pacing of their development, where too much is revealed too soon or it relies on what was said in BG1 to back up what is said in BG2. From the clues we've been given in BG1:EE I can kinda sense the direction things are headed with the new three. But who knows, they could slot into BG2 perfectly, I just have some reservations about that from my experience with BG1:EE.
I think with some hindsight, that it was probably a safer option to just create a quest hub in the style of Ulgoth's Beard where extra maps and quests could be added without interfering with the main content (or the contract). Then the new NPCs could be added in as only cameos, just like how Garrick, Coran, etc... were added in BG2 as cameos (there's a nice reversal there). There was never really a deficiency with NPCs when it came to BG1 but there was a deficiency in unique quests in the vein of BG2 or Durlag's Tower. Just a shame that there wasn't that much attention given to content that was suited to multiple playthroughs. There's just so much of the BG1 region that could have been expanded upon.
Luckily Neera's corpse gives you the Gem Bag but it is very annoying to have to go through Dorn's Questline just to get the Elven Chain. One thing I found is that the quests felt a little unequal. Neera's one was by far the shortest, Rasaad was the most delayed and Dorn's one had by far the most attention placed onto. It was strange, they felt like they had too much context in comparison to the BG1 NPCs but at the same time it felt like their questlines were too underwhelming and vague because the so much was saved over for BG2
Rasaad is well written and has an interesting backstory, and his quest is my favorite of the three. Baeloth is funny, I love his way of talking in alliterations and he makes me laugh. I like Dorn's personality, quest and backstory. He's maybe the most intriguing of the four. And he is really powerful :P I like the three of them very much.
But Neera... with her it was love at first sight. She conquered my heart (and my PC's heart as well) the moment I saw her for the first time. And I still don't know why. I only know she is one of my favorite NPCs in the entire BG saga.
Rasaad is too annoying to manage for most of the game, and the evil guys are too, well, evil - I'd don't want to ignore half the quests or have to kill the occasional anonymous guard to "balance" things.
Comments
Apparently, he is not very suave in his dealing with other people and he knows it, which is visible when he asks you for help in Nashkell. All in all...I can't wait what happens with Dorn in BG2.
Well, i tolerate Dorn.
Neera is horrible and whomever is responsible for her should feel bad.
It's not evil if you're just killing things to take their stuff.
Evil kills without taking, or takes without killing.
... but I will note that my Paladin's kill count includes every visible resident of a certain Xvart village which wasn't particularly in his way.
he just ploughs through everything near enough on his own.Thus stealing everyone elses thunder.
Raasad and Baeloth don't really appeal to me,one's way OP and the other a total gimp and as for Neera.
Total pain in the backside.Don't get me wrong i've tried her but after twenty minutes my assassin couldn't take anymore.Just STFU,followed by a poisoned backstab.
Glad that the Devs added four though,gives everyone the 'each to their own' option.
I tolerate Baeloth because he is the closet to a classic NPC but his nature as an easter egg makes him too much of an enigma. It's hard to justify him traveling throughout Baldur's Gate for anything other than fan service. I liked him in the context of the Black Pits but in BG1 he lacks purpose or even a backstory relevant to the game's events. It's strange but I feel like NPCs like Kivan who has a context comprising of a short bio and some one liners has more depth or relevance than the new NPCs.
It's also frustrating that the new areas are linked to them, so if you want to experience the new content you have to drag them along. I think I would be able to enjoy them in the context of BG2 where their NPC style wouldn't feel so out of place and where their quests can truly be elaborated on. But in BG1:EE I end up killing the new NPCs on sight and looting their corpses just to remove them from the events of the game.
Heading into BG2:EE you end up knowing a whole lot more about the new three than you do about any of the other NPCs. It'll be interesting to see how that works out, since a more expansive introduction to these characters took place in BG1 rather than how you get to know someone like Jaheira gradually throughout BG2. There could be a danger with the pacing of their development, where too much is revealed too soon or it relies on what was said in BG1 to back up what is said in BG2. From the clues we've been given in BG1:EE I can kinda sense the direction things are headed with the new three. But who knows, they could slot into BG2 perfectly, I just have some reservations about that from my experience with BG1:EE.
I think with some hindsight, that it was probably a safer option to just create a quest hub in the style of Ulgoth's Beard where extra maps and quests could be added without interfering with the main content (or the contract). Then the new NPCs could be added in as only cameos, just like how Garrick, Coran, etc... were added in BG2 as cameos (there's a nice reversal there). There was never really a deficiency with NPCs when it came to BG1 but there was a deficiency in unique quests in the vein of BG2 or Durlag's Tower. Just a shame that there wasn't that much attention given to content that was suited to multiple playthroughs. There's just so much of the BG1 region that could have been expanded upon.
Baeloth is funny, I love his way of talking in alliterations and he makes me laugh.
I like Dorn's personality, quest and backstory. He's maybe the most intriguing of the four. And he is really powerful :P
I like the three of them very much.
But Neera... with her it was love at first sight. She conquered my heart (and my PC's heart as well) the moment I saw her for the first time. And I still don't know why. I only know she is one of my favorite NPCs in the entire BG saga.