Queuable actions

pacek

Queueable actions please.
Also this, merged from another thread:

One thing that I would like to see is a task manager like what they had in NWN1 and NWN2. Essentially you have a bar somewhere that actions would appear in as you direct your character (allowing you to assign actions in advance). Misclicking does not cause your character to suddenly stop doing whatever he is doing (like casting a spell) but instead adds it to your task manager, which can be removed manually by clicking on it. To prevent sequence breaking anytime you enter a conversation your entire task manager would be emptied. Finally, a hot key should be assigned the task of canceling whatever action is currently in the front of the task manager.

HeroicSpur

@Pacek: I very strongly support this, but I'm afraid pacek I think more does need to be said. For example, how do you want queueable actions to be implemented? Do you want a little button to click on the UI, so any orders you issue are automatically queued? Do you want some kind of indicator on the UI to tell you what action is currently being undertaken, and which ones are being queued up? (A little like Kotor and I think Dragon Age). Or do you want to just add something like shift key functionality in RTS games, so you can queue actions that way?

I think this could implemented in a vast number of ways, and the level of depth to it is immensely variable.

Boaster

One thing I don't like about how qued actions presently work is that if you que up the final action to leave an area, it breaks all qued actions and goes straight to the area exit.

pacek

@HeroicSpur Yes there are many ways to do it, and I was thinking of shift key functionality, but a graphical representation, perhaps a line of small icons beside the portrait would be handy. But I'm honestly not that concerned with the implementation, just that it happens and it works.
@Boaster My suggestion is more that just move actions (which are queuable already) but incorporating spells and attack commands etc. So at the start of a fight , you could tell your cleric "cast spell A, then move to here, then equip sling and attack creature x).

Boaster

@HeroicSpur Yes there are many ways to do it, and I was thinking of shift key functionality, but a graphical representation, perhaps a line of small icons beside the portrait would be handy. But I'm honestly not that concerned with the implementation, just that it happens and it works.
@Boaster My suggestion is more that just move actions (which are queuable already) but incorporating spells and attack commands etc. So at the start of a fight , you could tell your cleric "cast spell A, then move to here, then equip sling and attack creature x).

That'd be a bit complicated. But I certainly hope it's something they could do.

AndreaColombo

Yep. Queueble actions would be quite handy.

pacek

That'd be a bit complicated. But I certainly hope it's something they could do.

What is this, the 20th Century?

Razor

With the "space" pause button is there really a need for queueble actions? But I guess it wouldnt hurt either

smeagolheart

If you guys ever played NWN, this was implemented into it. Very handy for buffing spells. It also had icons for walking and talking and such, it wasn't the most elegant of things to look at on the UI. However once you got used to it it is great to see what you have quequed up to do. So you can be like oops I didn't mean to cast that twice and you can click on the icon and it will cancel that action.

pacek

@Razor if we had queuable actions there wouldn't be a need to press pause so much, and we could just get on with playing the game.

Kore

It would be very helpful for buffing. That would be a god send. Simply queue buffs, go for a drink, come back, enter combat.

Razor

@Razor if we had queuable actions there wouldn't be a need to press pause so much, and we could just get on with playing the game.

That painfully reminds me of JA back in Action. A crappy remake of a great game and the thing I hope BGEE stays far from... BG, IWD etc are all about pause and space button, take that away and it's not the same game anymore. Pressing pause IS playing the game, pausing and deciding actions then unpausing and pausing 1 second latter to make more actions.
I don't like how you say "could just get on playing the game" Pause is essencial, and that is playing the game, a very important part of it. Not sure what tactics you use but BG usually require more than pressing some skills to queue them, usually battles change every second... I wonder if we play the same game.

HeroicSpur

@Razor, the purpose of queuing actions I would say are these:

1. Say you have a 6-man party and you enter battle. You pause and issue orders. A few seconds later you pause again to re-assess the situation. You issue new orders to your mage thinking he has cast his spell, but he hasn't so instead it ends up getting cancelled/wasted. If you could queue the next spell instead of having to wait for the moment the first one was done, it would reduce this risk. It would also mean you don't need to slam the space bar the moment one of your casters is done. (Although obviously if the situation changed, you would).

2. You want to buff-up before battle, you have to select your cleric, select the spell select target. Wait for that to be done, then do the next one. Wait for that one to be done, then do the next one. If you can queue all the actions at the same time you can just let him get on with it. This also applies if for example, you want to heal your party members manually, or if you want your wizard to cast his magical defences.

3. If there are multiple traps/locks in a room, you may want your thief to go between them in a queue, rather than manually going from one to the next.

Majoritas

In this case, I share @Razor 's opinion. Although the reasons @HeroicSpur listed are interesting, I think queuable actions are only for player's comfort, they do not improve the game itself and it would only change how the game is played. I don't think that changing the way how it's played only to please player's "laziness" is the right thing.

HeroicSpur

@Majoritas: sometimes it's nearly impossible to tell whether a character has just completed an action or if they're just about to start doing one, being able to queue in that context has nothing to do with laziness.

In respect of point 2. I'm a bit surprised you would think of it is 'lazy'. Perhaps it is on the players part, but it is tedious on the part of the game.

Majoritas

@HeroicSpur: "Laziness" is not the right word, I admit. I should have used "player comfort" instead. I guess I should explain myself a little bit - I wanted to say that an addition like this could change the game alot (not the mechanics or graphics, but how the game overally looks, feels and how is it played), especially if you change more things in simillar way. I admit that it would improve the control system, however, I think we should think about some limits to the changes and additions we want, otherwise we can end up with a game that is different from what previous BGs were. Better, player-friendlier, however different. For me, BG's tedious combat system was one of iconic aspects of the game (same applies for IWD and PS:T). I am not 100% against the queue, I only think we should approach this idea carefully.

Space_hamster

@Majoritas: sometimes it's nearly impossible to tell whether a character has just completed an action or if they're just about to start doing one, being able to queue in that context has nothing to do with laziness.

In respect of point 2. I'm a bit surprised you would think of it is 'lazy'. Perhaps it is on the players part, but it is tedious on the part of the game.

Actually, there is an option to display rolls in game, which displays all actions. There is also the option to automatically pause after each action... Effectively turning the game into a full turn by turn game. If one activates all these features it really slows down the game IMO.

As for quing spells... There is already spell trigger, sequencer, and not to forget wands that cast instantly... Albeit that is in BG 2

...

Actually now that I think about it, quing was probably considered by the developers at the very beginning, bit there is a very good reason why they didn't put it in, the battles simply aren't large enough scale. Another point, the battle system is a hybrid real time / turn based, giving options to either play fully real time, or slightly more turn based. The whole concept of rolling dice is abstracted. Quing would turn the game into a tactical board game, and would be a different game altogether.

HeroicSpur

@Majoritas: the combat system isn't tedious. It's excellent. Spending 10 minutes trying to buff up, casting one spell after another out of combat is. All we're asking for it is the ability to do the exact same thing but without the annoyance for the player. However I do understand your concerns about inadvertantly changing the combat style.

Majoritas

HeroicSpur: It can be sometimes, but that doesn't matter. It's excellent, tedious or not. I consider casting helpful spells out of combat as a part of combat system, I don't see much difference, except whether the target is party member or enemy, and in the nature of spells being casted. Well, maybe I'm just too conservative.

Tanthalas

I don't see how allowing for queable actions would change the combat style. At most if would just speed things up.

I thought that player comfort was a good thing, not bad.

pacek

@Razor and @Majoritas I honestly can't see what the resistance is. Here is where I'm coming from: when a fight starts, I pause and plan what I want to do. Often this involves a series of actions. Being able to queue those actions in no way alters my playing style, and I would feel safe in the knowledge that once my cleric has finished blessing the party, they will wade into action, hammer in hand. Same goes for my fighter and his potions, mages and spells etc etc. I'm certainly not advocating getting rid of the pause function: I think it is vital and as you say part of the game. But I do find it tedious and immersion breaking to be doing it every few seconds just to make sure your characters are doing what you want them to. At the very least, queuable actions would remove the frustating situation where you cancel a spell because you accidentally tell your caster to move instead of selecting another character.

Majoritas

@pacek, as I already said, I don't think it's a bad idea. It's good, honestly. I can see it's potential, and it would improve player comfort. I am just approaching this idea more conservatively, because I think the game should not be changed much from the original. It's still just a remake of BG, not a new game. Queue would not change your playing style, but I think that maybe it would change the "nature of the combat system". The current system works solely as "real-time command issuing", not planning. I think this would maybe lead to a more RTS-feel of play. Well, if anyone convinces me otherwise, I'll support this.

pacek

It sure would change the nature of the combat system. It would make it more fun, more fluid, more awesome.

Space_hamster

It seems ro me that your concept of quing actions isn't so different than using scripts. Of course using scripts takes a big chunk of the micromanagement out of it. I play with custom scripts, then activate/deactivate as desired using the lantern button. it's the best of both worlds, hybrid realtime/turn base/and auto AI, yet with the option to go full micromanagement at any time. It's part of the beauty of the BG implementation of D&D

Razor

I see what you mean pacek, still I like that real time feel that @Majoritas talked about. And queuing will always break that a little. As Space hamster said: "There is already spell trigger, sequencer, and not to forget wands that cast instantly" And I think that any "queue" options should be something like this. I'am not sure but maybe be a 1 skill queue, you choose one to cast and the next, this might be cool... what do you think guys?

pacek

@Space_hamster First of all I don't get your point about spell triggers etc, these aren't even available at BG1 levels. And what do wands have to do with it? As for custom scripts, I too use them (the vanilla ones are pretty bad IMO). But I prefer to make my decisions on the fly, not have them all preset. Its the difference between full immersion and watching fish in tank. (maybe not the bestAnd yes you can turn the AI off, but what if you want to only want to manage one character but leave the others automated? With AI toggle it's all or nothing. I'd like a system where you can have scripts running underneath but whenever you issue a command (or sequence of commands) these take precedence over all scripts.
@Razor & @Majoritas I'm also lost on the difference between an RTS feel - which you don't want, and a "real-time command issuing" feel - which you do. Sounds the same to me. But Razor I think you got to the root of my problem, that I'd really just like one or 2 simple commands to be able to queue up. "Cast spell A" then "attack creature y" -kinda deal

AzL0n

@pacek

''Queueable actions please. No more needs to be said.''

Didn't read the whole thread but I agree 100%

caruga

Don't know what the disagrees on the OP are for, unless it's the "no more needs to be said". Queuable actions for those who want them is harmless.

Visual feedback also needs to be mentioned. I envision small icons below each character portrait (there will be enough real-estate for 6 portraits + a lot extra with modern resolutions), indicating the enqueued actions, perhaps with a dial showing how much time is left to go. You can manipulate these by clicking on them, maybe even dragging them around to change the order while paused? And then there's a larger visual of the same thing shown at the top of the screen (or wherever you drag the (transparent) window) repping the currently selected characters' action queue.

I support the 'hold a key and click' idea, too.

Dragonfolk2000

One thing that I would like to see is a task manager like what they had in NWN1 and NWN2. Essentially you have a bar somewhere that actions would appear in as you direct your character (allowing you to assign actions in advance). Misclicking does not cause your character to suddenly stop doing whatever he is doing (like casting a spell) but instead adds it to your task manager, which can be removed manually by clicking on it. To prevent sequence breaking anytime you enter a conversation your entire task manager would be emptied. Finally, a hot key should be assigned the task of canceling whatever action is currently in the front of the task manager.

ElectricMonk

A discussion for queuable actions has already been started here

These threads should probably be merged. Attempting to summon @Tanthalas

In response to your topic, it does seem like it would add a considerable amount of convenience.

Tanthalas

Merged the two topics.