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Balance Dexterity

kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,679
The dexterity bonus to AC shoudn't stack with armor. Now that BG EE differ from where each bonus/penality comes from for Thac0/AC/Damage, maybe the core rules of D&D could be respected, by limiting the dexterity bonus value based on the armor a character uses.

I see this as a bug, but as i think that it was intented to be this way on the past, it's probally something to change more than a bug to fix.

This would also make other armor kinds to be more valuable and would bring diversity to the game. Atm when i can i use a full plate mail and a ring/cloak+1 (+2 when i can), to low strengh characters i use ankheg armor or the full plate mail+3 from durlag's tower and that is, the rest of the armor i found become gold fodder.

EntropyXIIAntonccout033typo_tillysine_locoMalicronSwordsNotWords
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Comments

  • EntropyXIIEntropyXII Member Posts: 656
    edited April 2013
    @kamuizin I wholeheartedly agree with this. Chainmail, splintmail and leathers become entirely redundant unless the character class is forced to use them, EG: Thieves, Barbarians and Bards. Chainmail and splintmail especially are pretty much selling items, which is extremely sad.

    My high dexterity, low strength fighter should not have to resort to using full plate (I also vote for some form of 'Finesse' perk). I am personally not a huge fan of changing the core game too much, but what @kamuizin is suggesting is certainly something to consider. I find it breaks my immersion to a point and I rarely play fighters anymore unless they're 280lbs of meat-head wielding a great sword.

    kamuizinMalicron
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,679
    I never make a character without less than 18 dex (19 on elfs and 17 on dwarvens) when i can, this feature/fix would make people rethink the dexterity cheese and focus their attention in other status as well.

    My exactly thoughts @EntropyXII, the only use gave to other armor kinds are only due to class/kit restrictions.

    EntropyXIIfranco
  • EntropyXIIEntropyXII Member Posts: 656
    @kamuizin I personally think this is a serious issue (others may disagree). There are many features I would like to see added - Bladesinger as a usable kit etc, but I would swap it all for the guys above to address this issue. Imagine Drizzt Do'Urden or Artemis Entreri wearing full plate? well why not? They are not benefiting themselves wearing anything less.

    Now that 3rd edition kits are made available, I think that this is also a viable option to be put on the agenda. Also a 'finesse' perk (if I keep saying it, it may happen ;)). Why does my highly dexterous Elven fighter have to have 18+ str and full plate to be of any use? I imagine Arnold Schwarzenegger with pointy ears.

    Where is my immersion gone? -looks under a rock- not there.. hmph. :)

  • IecerintIecerint Member Posts: 397
    @kamuizin, could you explain how the PnP system works a little more completely

  • DemivrgvsDemivrgvs Member Posts: 315
    @kamuizin what you're asking for is already available via mods, and it's very unlikely that they will add such 3E-like feature to BGEE because afaik they cannot touch the rule system.

    Within Item Revisions (http://www.gibberlings3.net/readmes/readme-item_rev.html) there's a separate component which does pretty much what you wish, adding a small DEX penalty to medium armors and slightly higher to heavy armors. The reason behind this tweak is exactly what you say: I wanted all types of armors to be a viable choice (e.g. high DEX characters should wear light armors and still be competitive).

    @EntropyXII I do wanted to implement such feat but unless they add a dedicated opcode there's no way to implement 3E Finesse feat with the current engine. Unfortunately, as I said before I really doubt they will work on this matter considering it's a rather huge change to the game's 2E rules.

  • EntropyXIIEntropyXII Member Posts: 656
    edited April 2013
    @Demivrgvs aha okay. I have always stayed away from mods so I don't know too much about them or how they work. You mention there is a dex balance mod? is this for EE? how about finesse?

    The reason i'm staying away for the most part is because i'm unsure of what will happen to my saved games should bg EE get an update.

    @Iecerint To explain it would be along the lines of: Dexterity bonus to AC is negated upon the equipping of heavy armor. Dexterity compiles agility and hand eye co-ordination and thus allows the character to effectively 'dodge' which is the dexterity AC bonus. The heavier the armor, more of the dex bonus is reduced.

    Full plate gives AC through raw protection. It allows the character to take hits, but also inhibits movement. This takes away from dexterity AC.

    This way, Paladin's in 3rd edition would never need to have 18 dex. A paladin with 12 dex was sufficient enough to wear full plate and practically made more sense for a character built around strength.

    A fighter who chose to wear chainmail, or elven chain could boost his dex to 18+ and lower his strength allowing him to be more of swordsman etc.

    This method allowed PC's to fully utilise the many different armor types within the game, and right now as unfortunate as it is chainmail, splintmail and leather have been made redundant in standard BG unless the PC is forced to wear them.

    I mean let's be honest, if you're a thief and could wear full plate most people would do this even if it made no sense. (Use any item anyone?)

  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,679
    edited April 2013
    @Demivrgvs, almost everything in this game is already covered by mods, that's not the point of this request. When a request can be confused as a bug, that request requires a more serious and deep attention.

    3E features are already in BG serie in droves, yes the very old BG serie. Barbarian, monk and sorceres are 3E features, the sneak attack implemented on IWD is also a 3E feature, Blackguard also is a kit from 3E edition.

    I doubt they implement anything as a feat (as it's done in neverwinter nights), but gather an specific amount of feats to make a class (a light warrior for example, with bonus to use small/light weapons and a bonus to AC as long the use light armor only) can be easly done.

    Turn an feat in an bonus or penality, by making every class to suffer a dextrity bonus limit when using a heavy armor would simulate this feat.

    @Iecerint, by the Paper and Pen rules, dexterity bonus, among other benefits, to Armor Class define how atletic and agile a character can be to avoid an attack, be it melee or ranged. The use of a heavy armor hinder a character of use agile movments. In Paper and Pen rules, the heavier the armor is (based on the kind of the armor normally) the harder will be for a person to use agility to avoid attacks, therefore this make a limit of how much your AC bonus can be enhanced by agility.

    I know that Neverwinter Nights 2 simulate this, there if you use an full plate, your dexterity can only give you a bonus of +1 to AC, no matter how high your dexterity is, for an 2E atribute system, doesn't matter if you have 15 (-1 bonus to AC) or 18 (-4 bonus to AC) in dexterity, you will only benefit of an AC bonus -1, when using a full plate mail.

    Iecerint
  • DemivrgvsDemivrgvs Member Posts: 315
    edited April 2013
    kamuizin said:

    @Demivrgvs, almost everything in this game is already covered by mods, that's not the point of this request. When a request can be confused as a bug, that request requires a more serious and deep attention.

    Well, "no DEX penalty in heavy armor" surely cannot be confused as a bug, because it's the intended PnP AD&D behaviour.
    kamuizin said:

    3E features are already in BG serie in droves, yes the very old BG serie. Barbarian, monk and sorceres are 3E features, the sneak attack implemented on IWD is also a 3E feature, Blackguard also is a kit from 3E edition.

    Just so you know Barbarian and Monk classes were around since 1st edition, even before AD&D. I don't know why most players believe these two classes were introduced by 3E.

    The sorcerer was indeed introduced by 3E, as well as the Blackguard (as a PrC, not a full class). Mentioning Sneak Attack is pointless instead, it has never been part of any BG game.
    kamuizin said:

    I doubt they implement anything as a feat (as it's done in neverwinter nights), but gather an specific amount of feats to make a class (a light warrior for example, with bonus to use small/light weapons and a bonus to AC as long the use light armor only) can be easly done.

    Turn an feat in an bonus or penality, by making every class to suffer a dextrity bonus limit when using a heavy armor would simulate this feat.

    So, you're hoping they add a new kit which requires the armor tweak you're asking for, and for it to alter how all armors work for all other classes? Good luck with that! :D

    @EntropyXII, yes, in my previous post I linked a mod which includes such tweak to armors (the mod is around since ages, but its BGEE version is in beta stage). Regarding Finesse instead, no mod out there has ever implemented it because the engine doesn't allow it.

    francoTJ_Hooker
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,679
    Nothing is stronger than belief my friend, sometimes not even the truth. As you wish, so.

  • francofranco Member Posts: 507
    In the long run the changes to AC with the heavier armors will of course diminish the AC protection for some PCs (some fighter types) while not improving the AC of any others. Of course this change would make the situation more realistic.

    But we should realize that many Fighter types would now be weaker in BG relative to the monsters and relative to magic casting classes (some fighters might actually lose as much as 3 AC points relative to what they have in the BG game now). The balance of the game would change a bit. I believe this would have to be thought through carefully.

  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,679
    Just something to say:

    Chain mail+1 (800gp in sale) = splint mail (54 gp)
    leather armor+1 (500gp sale) = studdent leather armor (24gp sale if i'm not wrong)
    plate mail+1 < full plate mail (ok, weight here counts but still...)

    If the devs don't want to balance dexterity, at least throw some bonus in those kind of armor, find 500 gp on ground or an leather armor+1 has no difference (besides the fact that if you inventory is full you can't carry that 500gps)

  • francofranco Member Posts: 507
    @kamuizin. I does seem like something is missing where chain mail +1 is just the equivalent of a much cheaper costing splint mail where AC is concerned. If the regular armor were to diminish the dexterity AC advantage but the magic armor were to bestow the full dexterity AC advantage, that would increase the value and utility of the magic armor in the game.

    kamuizinEntropyXII
  • francofranco Member Posts: 507
    @EntropyXII. Could you define what you mean by a "finesse perk"? I'm not sure what it is, but it sounds interesting and I would like to hear more.

  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,679
    finesse weapon feat is a feat from 3E that make the bonus to hit and damage come from either dexterity or strenght (the higher is used), but only work when using light weapons (short sword, scimitar, ninja-to, dagger, rapiers, long sword maybe but i don't remember and others).

    I found something about armor finesse, but it's 4E and i didn't got much info about it, would be nice to know more about it too.

    EntropyXII
  • francofranco Member Posts: 507
    kamuizin said:

    finesse weapon feat is a feat from 3E that make the bonus to hit and damage come from either dexterity or strenght (the higher is used), but only work when using light weapons (short sword, scimitar, ninja-to, dagger, rapiers, long sword maybe but i don't remember and others).

    I found something about armor finesse, but it's 4E and i didn't got much info about it, would be nice to know more about it too.

    Ah ha. I always thought that a good rule would be to permit the "to hit" and "damage" bonuses to come from either Strength or Dexterity, whichever is higher. In fact I incorporated it into my very early pnp games years ago when I was DM. It definitiely adds to variety in the game. You have the super powerful massive fighter and the dextrous swordsman. It also helps to balance these two catagories, and I would love to see a couple of melees between them.

    EntropyXIIsine_loco
  • typo_tillytypo_tilly Member Posts: 5,609
    A cap on AC dex bonus based on armour type would actually be pretty nice. :)

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 10,689
    kamuizin said:

    Just something to say:

    Chain mail+1 (800gp in sale) = splint mail (54 gp)
    leather armor+1 (500gp sale) = studdent leather armor (24gp sale if i'm not wrong)
    plate mail+1 < full plate mail (ok, weight here counts but still...)

    If the devs don't want to balance dexterity, at least throw some bonus in those kind of armor, find 500 gp on ground or an leather armor+1 has no difference (besides the fact that if you inventory is full you can't carry that 500gps)

    Smart observation, and this gets to the heart of the problem with the 2E armor system. My solution is simple: always, always play with the Full Plate and Packing Steel mod. It is excellent.

  • karnor00karnor00 Member Posts: 670
    This would be a huge nerf to dexterity for fighter type characters. Given that they almost all have dexterity bonuses, effectively it would be a straight up nerf to fighter type characters. I don't think this is desirable.

    Plus the armors available in game have been balanced around the fact that dexterity offers the same benefit to all types of armor. That's why, in BG2, you can find +5 leather and chain armors, but only +2 full plate (+3 right near the end of the game).

    So if you did want to implement this change, you'd need to rebalance all of the armors in the game. Otherwise you'd just end up with everyone wearing +5 chainmail.

    Eudaemoniumbrtl33Neonfisk
  • EntropyXIIEntropyXII Member Posts: 656
    @karnor00 simply throwing in some +5 full plates is easy enough. New items are some of the easiest things to add in BG - as far as I know.

    I think what we're desiring is a true balance. A fighter in full plate with large amounts of muscle is by nature, less dexterous than smaller characters. The armour system as it is currently forces the player to roll with a maxed out strength and dexterity character - effectively min-maxing (I do my best to avoid this but it simply makes no sense not to). It should go one way or the other and very rarely both at the same time.

    If I play a fighter, I personally want to wear leather or chainmail, because I aim to be a swordsman, rather than be heavy-hitting armour-smashing giant wearing full plate.

    The way I would want it to work is that a fighter wearing full plate, 18 str and 12 dex will effectively have only slightly better AC (3rd edition still values protection over dodging) than a fighter with 12 str and 18 dex wearing chainmail. A fighter in full plate should not be able to dodge as well as a fighter wearing leather should. Full plate = take the hits, leather armor = dodge the hits.

    Can anyone genuinely tell me that they wore any of the chain mail or splint mail in BG if they had the option to wear full plate? Elven chainmail doesn't count and neither do armor restricted classes.

    kamuizin
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,679
    edited April 2013
    ...

    I don't see this as a nerf for fighter characters, it's just reality. Mages aren't bothered with AC when they're triyng to hit a fighter with an spells, so it's just a fighter issue that only concern the fighters, no other class gain advantage on them because of this. Archers can get a sightly advantage but that's even better, people will give more credit to sword and shield style this way making that forgotten proficience perk be used.

    You get an Full plate mail right outside Irenicus Dungeon if you fight the drwarven party on the 2 floor of the Inn in the waukeen's promenade.

    You get 2 full plate mails+1 at the warehouse in the temple district (where you get also celestial fury) and that can be done at the begin of the game, you get another full plate mail+1 in the sewers on the very temple district, also early in the game.

    The only Leather Armor+5 in the game is "the night's gift", the reward on the Umar Hills after the quest that trigger the ranger walkthrough (if you are one) is done. The difference between Shadow Armor and the Night's Gift is solely aesthetics, what raise the question "why 2 different kind of armor if they don't have a difference in the end?", that could be an leather armor+5 or a studded leather armor+4, that really wouldn't make a difference and in fact, on Baldur's Gate 2 we have 2 Studded Leather Armor+6.

    *Armor of the viper is a leather+5 but is cursed, just to check.


    You can start the game equipping you entire party with the armor that they will be using for most of the game just by rushing the Temple District intial part of quests (3 full plate+1) or even better, just drop your reputation below 3 and kill the first amnish party that appear outside irenicus dungeon, to get 5 full plate mails.

    Unlike full plate mails+1 that exist on the game in droves, there's only 2 chainmails+5 on the game and one of them is only accessible on ToB.

    An rebalance on the game armors would be well received, in fact each kind of armor has special characteristics, split mails give a -3 bonus to AC against crushing weapons, full plates give a -2 bonus to AC against slash and missile weapons (someone correct me if the values are wrong), those bonus aren't displayed on the character inventory or status screen, magic armors of those kind could even give an extra bonus to the accessory armor class bonus and the engine could make those bonus visible.

    EntropyXII
  • reedmilfamreedmilfam Member Posts: 2,808
    While I agree, version 2 rules don't adjust DEX vs AC bonus for armor types. I believe that they should, as we see in 3/3.5, as it makes DEX-based fighters relevant.

    As for DEX to hit bonus, this should only be with certain weapons.

    EntropyXIIkamuizin
  • karnor00karnor00 Member Posts: 670
    kamuizin said:

    finesse weapon feat is a feat from 3E that make the bonus to hit and damage come from either dexterity or strenght (the higher is used), but only work when using light weapons (short sword, scimitar, ninja-to, dagger, rapiers, long sword maybe but i don't remember and others).

    The 3E Finesse feat allows the to-hit bonus to come from either dexterity or strength. Damage bonuses always only come from strength.

    As for the overall idea, I'm not a fan of introducing 3E concepts into a 2E game. I know we have a few 3E classes which are somewhat implemented in BG2, but it's not an exact implementation.

    Can anyone genuinely tell me that they wore any of the chain mail or splint mail in BG if they had the option to wear full plate? Elven chainmail doesn't count and neither do armor restricted classes.

    I think that under 2ED D&D, fighter classes were always designed to use the best armor in the game (i.e. full plate assuming they could find some). That's one of their key class advantages over barbarians, bards, thieves, etc.

    I'm fine with fighters always using full plate for maximum protection. That's how things work in the real world after all - armor is good stuff to wear in a fight. Historically people in fights wore armor - the romantic Hollywood notion of swashbuckling just doesn't work very well in practice. At least until gunpowder overpowered the protection that armor could provide.

    TJ_Hooker
  • EntropyXIIEntropyXII Member Posts: 656
    @karnor00 didn't armour become obsolete (or less used) with the introduction of fencing? With advances in swordplay and warriors focused less on taking the hits, but more on dodging them - armor become primarily an item reserved for war in most cases. Gun powder played a part, but armor was well on its way out by this point.

    And of course fighters can wear full plate - that is a bonus of the class. My point is: Why do they have to?

    Without Barbarians etc for the fighter genre of classes, their would be absolutely no requirement to every use lighter armour. Regardless of 2nd edition rules on the subject, FR novels and characters always appear to be designed around the 3rd edition rule of armor/dexterity balancing.

    Swordsman such as Artemis Entreri, Drizzt Do'Urden and Zaknafein are all dexterity focused classes with minimal strength and lighter armour. The only way they could make this work in 2nd edition is by giving them a godly innate bonus to AC and damage - which is something CHARNAME could never have, making it impossible for us to play a 'lighter' style of warrior without the use of Shadowkeeper etc. There are tons of examples of rule breaking in BG. Coran's mastery of bows? Haer'dalis's specialisation of shortswords?

    Every tried playing a fighter with 20 dexterity (after tome) and 14 strength using nothing but chainmail? I have and by the end of ToB you are extremely underpowered. I would just like the option to not be a walking giant of muscle and metal who manages to dodge insane blows while wearing 100 lbs of steel.

    This is why 3rd edition changed this rule and in my opinion it was a change for the better.

  • karnor00karnor00 Member Posts: 670
    Historically the rapier (and similar weapons) did not see much use on the battlefield. It's usage was primarily restricted to civilian combat, either in duels of honor or fighting in town. And nobody wears a suit of armor to go shopping - even if you were paranoid enough it just wouldn't have been socially acceptable.

    It's also a common misconception that full plate armor was very restrictive - the classic image is that a knocked down knight can't get himself back up again. Actually the armor was very well balanced and gave good mobility. See http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-399121.html for a more detailed discussion.

    It really was the development of gunpowder weapons, which could penetrate plate armor relatively easily, that meant the costs of platemail were no longer worthwhile.

    I think you are also overestimating the problems of wearing chain mail in BG2. If you pick up a suit of +5 chainmail, that's only 1 AC worse than full plate +2. And in fact, unless you are using a shield and several non-armor AC bonus items, plus spell protections, you're going to get hit a lot even in full plate.

    As for your 14 strength fighter, why isn't he using one of the many belts of giant strength? Or at least ogre power gauntlets.

  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,679
    edited April 2013
    karnor00 said:



    The 3E Finesse feat allows the to-hit bonus to come from either dexterity or strength. Damage bonuses always only come from strength.

    Improved Weapon Finesse:

    http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Improved_Weapon_Finesse_(3.5e_Feat)

    karnor00 said:



    I think that under 2ED D&D, fighter classes were always designed to use the best armor in the game (i.e. full plate assuming they could find some). That's one of their key class advantages over barbarians, bards, thieves, etc.

    I'm fine with fighters always using full plate for maximum protection. That's how things work in the real world after all - armor is good stuff to wear in a fight. Historically people in fights wore armor - the romantic Hollywood notion of swashbuckling just doesn't work very well in practice. At least until gunpowder overpowered the protection that armor could provide.


    Doesn't exist "best armor" in terms of RPG, put a full plate in drizzt (outside the game engine) and be assured that he will probally die very fast.

    The fact you're fine with full plate in every fighter doesn't meant that others feel the same, some people like to see the game deeper than just an sum of numbers (the lower AC, the higher Thac0, no matter coherence).
    karnor00 said:



    Historically the rapier (and similar weapons) did not see much use on the battlefield. It's usage was primarily restricted to civilian combat, either in duels of honor or fighting in town. And nobody wears a suit of armor to go shopping - even if you were paranoid enough it just wouldn't have been socially acceptable.

    You don't have a base to say this, rapiers where a weapon mainly used in an specific period of the history, and even then, fantasy game isn't locked by the reflex of the real world, when you work with magic in a place where an entire fireweapon squad can be totally whiped out by a single person with protection from missile weapons, the same rules that aplly in our word can't be applied there.

    Do not base an alternative reality on the rules of our reality, this will only lead to a probally fallacy at the end.

    By the way http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapier
    karnor00 said:



    It's also a common misconception that full plate armor was very restrictive - the classic image is that a knocked down knight can't get himself back up again. Actually the armor was very well balanced and gave good mobility. See http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-399121.html for a more detailed discussion.

    If you say so, but i really can't imagine a person using dodge and making acrobatic jumps in full plate mail armor (these dodges and acrobatic are in fact the representation of the AC bonus that come from higher dexerity.



    @karnor00, the main issue on our discussion is that you're looking to the game with numbers and statistics while other people here (me included) look to the game from a roleplay and PnP bases.

    Iecerint
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 10,689
    edited April 2013
    But that's kind of the point: if chain +5 and full plate +2 are functionally the same, then what's the difference? In a game of choices, it's no fun when different choices lead to the same result.

    On the other hand, this is probably best addressed with mods. I personally make all armor have the same AC: 7 for basic armors, 6 for +1 armors, 4 for +2 armors, 2 for +3, etc. Then heavy armors trade off DEX penalties for physical Damage Resistance. So studded leather is -1 DEX and 15% DR; chain is -2 DEX and 30% DR; splint is -3 and 40%; plate is -4 and 50%; and full plate is -5 and 60%.

    That makes for all sorts of interesting combinations. DEX is equalized in heavy armor, so people like Ajantis and Anomen aren't effective cripples; and in heavy armor, you can choose to use a 2-handed weapon or dual-wield to be a huge damage-dealer; or instead use a shield for an AC bonus on par with a thief's or stalker's DEX bonus in leather. A DEX-based character can wear leather and use single-weapon style for very low AC... but when he does get hit, he takes high damage. It makes for a lot of variation and a lot of fun and interesting choices.

    As for whether something like this is a "huge nerf" for the characters with five 18s + 3 CHA + Ring of Human Influence... I don't see how those players can make a useful contribution to a discussion of balance, when they choose to play the game in an inherently unbalanced way. But even for them, this system would create more interesting choices and more varied playthroughs.

    IecerintEudaemonium
  • karnor00karnor00 Member Posts: 670
    kamuizin said:

    <@karnor00, the main issue on our discussion is that you're looking to the game with numbers and statistics while other people here (me included) look to the game from a roleplay and PnP bases.</p>

    I think we will probably have to agreed to disagree on this point. I don't see a compelling reason to introduce more 3ED/3.5ED mechanics into a 2ED game.

    I can understand why you might want to use different armors for roleplaying reasons, and in a P&P game that can work very well. Less so in a computer RPG, but you can still make the choice if you want to. But I don't have a problem with the fact that a roleplaying choice comes at the detriment of maximum efficiency (and to be honest the penalty is pretty small).

    At the end of the day there are already mods to do what you want. Or try the Full Plate and Packing Steel mod for a rather different interpretation on armor.

    Mortianna
  • EntropyXIIEntropyXII Member Posts: 656
    @karnor00 Mod's are only going to cause problems until BGEE is fully patched. Will only end up corrupting save files until this point.

    I understand - and agree- to a certain point about applying 3rd and 3.5 edition rules to a 2nd edition game, but as was correctly pointed out to me in another thread - this isn't the first time it's been done.

    Shadowdancer, Dragon Disciple, Dwarven Defender - all 3rd edition kits correct? Icewind Dale also had the option to apply sneak attack instead of Backstabbing.

    Merging 2nd ed and 3rd ed as a problem is now moot. It's already happened so why fight it? The truth is 3rd ed dexterity and armor balancing was far better designed than 2nd edition. Even to the point that novel characters created in second edition practically ran from 3rd edition rules anyway.

    The truth is: Higher dexterity = dodging acrobatic fighter. Heavier armor = warrior with lots of muscle not overly concerned with being hit. It's simply not plausible to mix the two... it genuinely doesn't make sense. A simple +2 to dexterity AC for each grade of armour will correct this and easily balance it out.

    Eudaemonium
  • Jedi_GnomeJedi_Gnome Member Posts: 92
    edited May 2013
    I have never played 3.5, but I did get the books and read up on it, and I would be very interested if they could get Weapon Finesse into Baldur's Gate. I play a gnome kensai, and I prefer to play it as an acrobatic swashbuckler type. A swordsgnome, as it were. I would rather have a high DEX and a lower STR. Right now, however, to be good in swordplay, you have to have a high STR.

    EntropyXII
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