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A flaw in Yoshimo's plot (spoilers)

Think with me :

Irenicus didn't know you were going to escape , correct?
Yoshimo was hired to bring you back to him, right?

Then why did he join our party inside the dungeon, since he didn't know Jon's plans?
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Comments

  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    Maybe Irenicus is playing cat-and-mouse with you and allowed you to escape so that you grow your Bhaalspawn powers more. Your Bhallspawn-enriched soul is an investment that he's tending in order to cash in on later.
  • SarevokokSarevokok Member Posts: 171
    I like your reasoning Jared, I just have one problem. Irenicus was very intelligent. Yes he was cocky but he NEVER lost his composure, always kept ahead of the game. Only time I can recall him flipping a monkey is when you surprise him at the end and severe his connection to the tree. So back to what you said, that would of been very cocky and too "iffy" for someone like Irencius to rely on.
  • davendaven Member Posts: 112
    He read the game script.
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    @Jared4242 - I gotta really disagree with you. 'Steve'? What kind of a name is that for a Bhaalspawn?

    Seriously, I figure this. Yoshimo was probably a subject in the dungeon along with "Steve" and party. When the Shadowthieves attacked, Irenicus probably ascended to the next higher level and, figuring that there was a possibility that 'Steve' could escape, he cast the Geas on Yoshi "Just in case". After all, considering what is at stake why wouldn't he at least prepare for the possibility that things would get out of hand?
  • MalicronMalicron Member Posts: 629
    Actually, Irenicus more or less tells CHARNAME that he planned this from the start. During his monolog right before stealing your sole, he says things like "this has all gone according to plan," "I made the path difficult, but not impossible," and "you would always come here, as I knew you would." Further, Yoshimo's comments seem to suggest he had been working for Irenicus for quite some time, long before CHARNAME and friends were captured. Everything fits for Irenicus having planned this from the start, if not as "plan a" then at least as a solid back-up plan.
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  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,857
    I favour the multiple plan theory, hence his conversation with a golem. Erm, maybe ol Jonboy was just lonesome? Tired of Palmela Handerson? He did clone his ex girlfriend... Maybe if Jonboy could have gotten a hug, he would be okay.
  • CamDawgCamDawg Member, Developer Posts: 3,438

    Seriously, I figure this. Yoshimo was probably a subject in the dungeon along with "Steve" and party. When the Shadowthieves attacked, Irenicus probably ascended to the next higher level and, figuring that there was a possibility that 'Steve' could escape, he cast the Geas on Yoshi "Just in case". After all, considering what is at stake why wouldn't he at least prepare for the possibility that things would get out of hand?

    Yeah, Yoshimo's a backup plan. You weren't supposed to escape.

  • DjimmyDjimmy Member Posts: 749
    It seems as a flaw to me, although an infinite number of stories could be created to explain the situation with Yoshimo.
  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,660
    The trick isn't having a plan that will allow you to succeed. The trick is making sure EVERY PLAN and outcome ends with your success. Even if, by some insane longshot, the CHARNAME finally kills Irenicus, at least his suffering is finally over. He's dead and moved onto Hell which can't be any worse than what his life was like since his Punishment.
  • GandalfPortraitGuyGandalfPortraitGuy Member Posts: 206
    Malicron said:

    Actually, Irenicus more or less tells CHARNAME that he planned this from the start. During his monolog right before stealing your [B]sole[/B], he says things like "this has all gone according to plan," "I made the path difficult, but not impossible," and "you would always come here, as I knew you would." Further, Yoshimo's comments seem to suggest he had been working for Irenicus for quite some time, long before CHARNAME and friends were captured. Everything fits for Irenicus having planned this from the start, if not as "plan a" then at least as a solid back-up plan.

    When did Irenicus cut off CHARNAME'S foot?

  • MalicronMalicron Member Posts: 629

    Malicron said:

    Actually, Irenicus more or less tells CHARNAME that he planned this from the start. During his monolog right before stealing your [B]sole[/B], he says things like "this has all gone according to plan," "I made the path difficult, but not impossible," and "you would always come here, as I knew you would." Further, Yoshimo's comments seem to suggest he had been working for Irenicus for quite some time, long before CHARNAME and friends were captured. Everything fits for Irenicus having planned this from the start, if not as "plan a" then at least as a solid back-up plan.

    When did Irenicus cut off CHARNAME'S foot?

    Would you believe me if I blamed auto-correct?
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    Steve: "Oh no, I'm walking at a slight incline, Irenicus stole my sole! This is going to be a much longer journey than I thought!"

    Aerie: "You still have the sole on your left shoe correct?"

    Steve: "Yes."

    Aerie: "Then shut up you big wimp."
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018

    Malicron said:

    Actually, Irenicus more or less tells CHARNAME that he planned this from the start. During his monolog right before stealing your [B]sole[/B], he says things like "this has all gone according to plan," "I made the path difficult, but not impossible," and "you would always come here, as I knew you would." Further, Yoshimo's comments seem to suggest he had been working for Irenicus for quite some time, long before CHARNAME and friends were captured. Everything fits for Irenicus having planned this from the start, if not as "plan a" then at least as a solid back-up plan.

    When did Irenicus cut off CHARNAME'S foot?

    He didn't cut off Charname's Foot. Just the bottom part of it. that's why Yoshi is sent to help you. He's a Footpad.

  • SouthpawSouthpaw Member Posts: 2,026
    CamDawg said:

    Yeah, Yoshimo's a backup plan. You weren't supposed to escape.

    What? Do you want me to believe that the magnificent bastard I secretly respected as a worthy foe was just clumsy bluffer? Do you want to destroy all the years I spent tracking him down and killing him repeatedly as a mere foolish self-delusions?
    Do you want to tell me I gave him more credit than I should all the time? Do you want to tell me that all that time I was an idiot trying to outsmart another idiot?

    No! This cannot be! I refuse to listen!
    *Shuts eyes, covers ears with hands and starts humming*
    Jon was smart...Jon was smart all along...I was the dent in his plan...
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    Southpaw said:

    CamDawg said:

    Yeah, Yoshimo's a backup plan. You weren't supposed to escape.

    What? Do you want me to believe that the magnificent bastard I secretly respected as a worthy foe was just clumsy bluffer? Do you want to destroy all the years I spent tracking him down and killing him repeatedly as a mere foolish self-delusions?
    Do you want to tell me I gave him more credit than I should all the time? Do you want to tell me that all that time I was an idiot trying to outsmart another idiot?

    No! This cannot be! I refuse to listen!
    *Shuts eyes, covers ears with hands and starts humming*
    Jon was smart...Jon was smart all along...I was the dent in his plan...
    Um, it's David Warner. He's awesomeness beyond words. Nuff said.

    Actually, I do agree with others (contrary to my previous statement) that Yoshi was clearly part of a significantly larger and meticulous plan and not just 'the backup'. Although it is not clear to what degree he was involved in the big "I" prior to Charname coming along, he was Geas'd at some point and clearly with intent to monitor and guide Charname (and party) towards Spellhold

    In short, I don't think that a flaw has been found in Yoshi's back story. I think it plays out exactly as intended.

  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199

    Malicron said:

    Actually, Irenicus more or less tells CHARNAME that he planned this from the start. During his monolog right before stealing your [B]sole[/B], he says things like "this has all gone according to plan," "I made the path difficult, but not impossible," and "you would always come here, as I knew you would." Further, Yoshimo's comments seem to suggest he had been working for Irenicus for quite some time, long before CHARNAME and friends were captured. Everything fits for Irenicus having planned this from the start, if not as "plan a" then at least as a solid back-up plan.

    When did Irenicus cut off CHARNAME'S foot?

    He didn't cut off Charname's Foot. Just the bottom part of it. that's why Yoshi is sent to help you. He's a Footpad.

    He can dance on the head of a pin as well.
  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,366
    i was always wondering

    what will happen when yoshimo is dead and go to spellhold/asylum? (his portrait is gray he haws lower than 0 hp)
  • AlexisisinneedAlexisisinneed Member Posts: 470
    zur312 said:

    i was always wondering

    what will happen when yoshimo is dead and go to spellhold/asylum? (his portrait is gray he haws lower than 0 hp)

    Maybe the samething that happens when you don't have Yoshimo with you. The boat captain poisons you.
  • MalicronMalicron Member Posts: 629

    zur312 said:

    i was always wondering

    what will happen when yoshimo is dead and go to spellhold/asylum? (his portrait is gray he haws lower than 0 hp)

    Maybe the samething that happens when you don't have Yoshimo with you. The boat captain poisons you.
    There's a mod/addition to BG2:EE I'd like to see; track down Haverian and sheath the Silver Sword in a very uncomfortable orifice. By the time I get back to Athkatla I hate him only sightly less then the soul stealing wonder twins.
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,857
    Malicron said:

    zur312 said:

    i was always wondering

    what will happen when yoshimo is dead and go to spellhold/asylum? (his portrait is gray he haws lower than 0 hp)

    Maybe the samething that happens when you don't have Yoshimo with you. The boat captain poisons you.
    There's a mod/addition to BG2:EE I'd like to see; track down Haverian and sheath the Silver Sword in a very uncomfortable orifice. By the time I get back to Athkatla I hate him only sightly less then the soul stealing wonder twins.
    But... But he's the loveable rascal! Also, his crapsack gift lets you meet the funniest githyanki in the multiverse!
  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,366

    zur312 said:

    i was always wondering

    what will happen when yoshimo is dead and go to spellhold/asylum? (his portrait is gray he haws lower than 0 hp)

    Maybe the samething that happens when you don't have Yoshimo with you. The boat captain poisons you.
    but will be betray me and leave or stay in the party? logic say he will stay but dunno how script works
  • KilivitzKilivitz Member Posts: 1,459
    Malicron said:

    There's a mod/addition to BG2:EE I'd like to see; track down Haverian and sheath the Silver Sword in a very uncomfortable orifice.

    Careful what you wish for! That's what makes Saemon so memorable: he's the one (kill) that got away.
  • ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122
    Just the 1 flaw?
  • bbearbbear Member Posts: 1,180
    Two flaws I found that Irenicus plans to let Charname escape:

    1) Charname may abandon Imoen in Spellhold for good. Sure they are childhood companions, but if Charname was evil, he wouldnt risk his neck for anyone.
    2) The high risk that Charname would get killed while adventuring. I'm confident that Charname couldnt survive all these encounters w/o "reloading" or foreknowledge.

  • wildwild Member Posts: 43
    @Malicron I refuse to continue in ToB until I have killed him. Always disappointed he doesn't have anything useful on him.
  • MathmickMathmick Member Posts: 326
    Kilivitz said:

    Malicron said:

    There's a mod/addition to BG2:EE I'd like to see; track down Haverian and sheath the Silver Sword in a very uncomfortable orifice.

    Careful what you wish for! That's what makes Saemon so memorable: he's the one (kill) that got away.
    You can kill him. On the island, tell him you'll go with him back to the mainland. Kill him there.

    When Aran Linvail asks you about sending an assassin out to get him, you get some unique dialogue options there having killed him.
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