A timer for every action

Ingwarr23

A timer for every action , to know how much will last a spell , how much time need a spellcaster to cast a spell, to know when to command your mage to cast a fireball and when to command your warrior to leave the respective area, and so on.
It would improve very, very much tactical aspects of the game.
Sorry for my bad English.

Kore

On some level I agree with this and on another I don't. It will allow more tactical gameplay, but at the risk of it becoming more like an MMO than Baldur's Gate. Maybe if it was optional.

Ingwarr23

Kore, I do not understand you. I look at MMO and tactics games like at a two opposite concepts.
Would you like to be more explicit ? (Baldur's Gate means for me tactics and a good story)
I think there is a timer for AI , why to not show it and for players.

Conphantus

I would love an optional easy-to-turn-on-and-off timer for most actions! Sometimes I just can't see if an action is finished or not.

Ingwarr23

With this implementation BG will become one of the most tactical games.
Players will have the same weapons as AI (computer inteligence). I am referring at knowing what, when ,where are you doing something.

Kore

Kore, I do not understand you. I look at MMO and tactics games like at a two opposite concepts.
Would you like to be more explicit ? (Baldur's Gate means for me tactics and a good story)
I think there is a timer for AI , why to not show it and for players.

Well, much as I like powergaming, looking at exact timers seems more like something that you'd expect to find in World of Warcraft, not Baldur's Gate. Then again it would add tactical gameplay. I think it's fair to say that I haven't really decided what I want in regard to this, so you can just ignore me for now

Ingwarr23

Kore, I hate MMOs ( at least now). I think I understand you , but I do not speak about the same implementation of timers like in MMOs. I want something more Baldur's Gate , something that is not there only to make the game more accesible for noobs , but something that will help you to manage time , to make more complex tactics, to truly use your mind and your imagination.

Seldar

Why everyone wants so many changes in a game which has already proved that it was close to the perfection ?!


That's why BG is still one (or the one) of the greatest RPG of all time.

Don't change too many things in this game, keep the old mechanic

Ingwarr23

Baldur's Gate was close to perfection in 2000.
I think players want something better especially now when there is a lot of technological potential.

Ingwarr23

I think graphics of BG aren't so bad , then why to make an EE if you want nothing else to change ?

Seldar

I say change too many things will break the game, it's a fact.

EE means also patching bugs, not necessary add content, like The Witcher 1 and 2

Tanthalas

I don't think a timer is necessary, but I think that there should be better visual/sound cues for spells that are in midcast. There are plenty of long spells where the casting sound ends before the spell is actually cast, which has sometimes led me to accidentally waste a spell by moving the character.

Coriander

@Tanthalas I too waste spells in that way

I would like to know when a player controlled creature/character has an action queued, like using a potion or casting a spell. Even if it just popped onto the console when they're selected. Like "CHARNAME is going to cast Draw Upon Holy Might"

Cadros

I am against the idea of a timer, timing your spell by intuition is part of what makes fighting fun, not wasting time that could be used running away from an enemy coming after your mage can make or break some fights. Prehaps more importantly I think any game is better when you are watching your character rather than sets of numbers. I can understand why some would enjoy this as a feature, however my preference would be for the devs to spend their time elsewhere, and leave this to a mod.

Tanthalas

@Coriander

That's another good suggestion. Sometimes combat can get hectic and I might not see if the previous command I gave has been carried out already or not.

It usually happens a lot with spells too, since (I believe) you can only cast one spell per round.

Ingwarr23

I thought BG is a game of tactics and management, a game which requires thinking and calculating , a game where you know exactly what you are doing.
For me is very annoying to not know when a mage will finish to cast a spell , how much time remains until my druid will summon something, when will disappear those clouds.
I think in a easy battle that aspects aren't very important, but in hard one they are. You cannot elaborate complex tactics without such details.
Sometimes a second can be very important.
Maybe I am wrong,maybe I demand such things from a game that is more an arkade one , a poker game (as you describe it)

Tanthalas

Its just that people have lived without a feature like this so they don't think its something crucial to add to the game.

I don't agree that "knowing when a spell goes off by intuition" is part of what makes fighting fun, but I also don't think we need a timer for everything.

Conphantus

Cadros: It's near impossible to keep track of six characters at a time, when there's no real indication of when an action is finished. For me, the effect is that I have to pause a lot more than if I had access to some more information. In addition, I feel my characters should know when they for example have finished casting a spell and are ready for a new action. It's not a big issue, but an optional indicator of when an action is finished would certainly be welcomed in my eyes.

lansounet

I don't get it, the auto-pause finction is there for "Spell cast" and "End of Round" if you really want to act on timers.

Cadros

@Conphantus I disagree that it is impossible to keep track of six characters, especially when a couple of them are probably in melee I have no problem with it being difficult, part of the fun of the game is that it is to be cliché... easy to learn, but hard to master.

However I can also understand the argument that a character would know when they have enough magic/whatever to fire off another spell, but would rather the system were not changed due to personal preferences, and would argue that this is (one of many) abstractions of the imagined circumstances which may seem a little silly, but makes combat enjoyable. @Iansounet I think Conphantus would also like an indicator that a character is ready to cast a spell again (maybe their portrait could flash).

@Ingwarr23 I agree that this is a tactical game that requires some thinking and calculation, but so is a real battlefield, and mastering your forces in the midst of the chaos (although you have the option of pausing) calculating the right spell distances (so that the fireball only gently warms your toes rather than frying your mage as well), getting the timers right so no potential casting time is lost, and using the right items, can make (to coin a loading screen phrase) an impossible fight merely challenging, and is very satisfying when you get it right. Complex tactics are perfectly doable, but might require a little practice to get timings right.


I am sorry but I don't understand your arcade/poker reference.

TLDR: In this case I think more infomation would lead to less fun.

Conphantus

I don't really like auto-pause. I rather pause manually and give out new orders when I see that it's needed. I do however agree that any indicator for an action being finished should be discrete enough (and optional) that it doesn't break immersion. I'm not sure how I'd solve it, but the portrait flashing slightly seems like a good idea.

lansounet

As far as I know, besides the cases of Improved Alacrity effects and spells that take 2 rounds or more to cast (don't think there's any in vanilla longer than 1 round but some mod-added ones can take up to 1 turn or probably more to cast), you can execute one special action per round; that is the reason I use auto-pause for pretty much all available options, except "character hit" that triggers on absorbed hits, stoneskin/images/whatever. That way I reduce downtime to a minimum.

@Conphantus You want better visibility of action timers to reduce downtime but you don't like auto-pause because it does exactly that and would rather pause at random times to issue new actions? I'm sorry that doesn't really make sense to me.

Tanthalas

@Iansounet

Auto-pausing after a spell is cast can get pretty annoying when you're healing/buffing up your party though.

lansounet

Maybe a sensible tweak would be to add a check for CombatCounter in auto-pause code?

Ingwarr23

A timer doesn't mean necessarily a clock (although I would prefer this implementation).
A "timer" can be and the movements of characters, the position of mage fingers when he is casting a spell, the intensity of colour or some animations when we speak about spells....But for implementing all these things there are necessary a lot of work , very detailed animations, modern graphics...

smeagolheart

If you are firing two spells a round that's your timer doing circles every three seconds. It could get distracting. Also what about melee? if you are doing greater whirlwind don't you get 10 attacks a round so 10 flashes every six seconds. That will be look very odd with lots of flashing characters or circles or whatever. There might be room for middle ground but I don't see it.

Ingwarr23

If you are firing two spells a round that's your timer doing circles every three seconds. It could get distracting. Also what about melee? if you are doing greater whirlwind don't you get 10 attacks a round so 10 flashes every six seconds. That will be look very odd with lots of flashing characters or circles or whatever. There might be room for middle ground but I don't see it.

smeagolheart ,no offence, but that this feature can be implemented in smarter ways than you think , imagine.

smeagolheart

If you are firing two spells a round that's your timer doing circles every three seconds. It could get distracting. Also what about melee? if you are doing greater whirlwind don't you get 10 attacks a round so 10 flashes every six seconds. That will be look very odd with lots of flashing characters or circles or whatever. There might be room for middle ground but I don't see it.

smeagolheart ,no offence, but that this feature can be implemented in smarter ways than you think , imagine.

Not offended just the examples people have offered so far that I've seen are flashing character portraits and the standard globe timer. I don't have a better idea for timer than those.

Aliteri

I don't really like auto-pause. I rather pause manually and give out new orders when I see that it's needed. I do however agree that any indicator for an action being finished should be discrete enough (and optional) that it doesn't break immersion. I'm not sure how I'd solve it, but the portrait flashing slightly seems like a good idea.

auto-pause at spellcasting + battlelog is all you need, really

caruga

Assuming I understand this then I agree. I wouldn't mind if they stole the way Dragon Age did it, with a clock/dial partly ghosting an icon (which would represent an action, status effect, the current turn (instead of the pendulum) etc.) The icon could be arranged around the character portrait but is customizable to be wherever you wish it.

In fact where you get a 'string' of icons, you can dock it in different places: alongside the quickbar (shows only when the relevent character is selected) or around the portrait where it surrounds all four sides as per the amount of icons.