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Buffs vs. Healing

Howdy folks :) New guy here, just purchased Baldur's Gate EE off of Steam after having played Baldur's Gate II for many years (never actually getting very far though - new-character-itis sets in way too easily). I first picked up the game and made a rather botch job of a bard (my usual class when I first test out a game) and realized something... This game is harder to start out with! I assume because we start out at level 1 instead of a higher level?

Anyways, I really enjoy the challenge - it's something that's rather hard to find here in 2013. So now I rolled a pure-cleric (I've always enjoyed pure-classes more than dual or multi-class) and I'm about ready to set off, but I need a little bit of advice.

I'm really not used to starting from level 1 - all the games I've played have had a few levels of a head-start OR a full party of 6 custom-made characters (which is not as fun for me, really). Because of this, starting as a level 1 cleric is really giving me a taste of the spellbook economy; I don't have enough spell slots to pick all the spells I want! In the early stages of the game (and quite a bit farther in, as well), how do you guys decide whether you pick buffing or healing spells? Do you have a preferred ratio?

Is it even feasible trying to play this game as a pure class?

If it helps, I hope to finish the game with this character and then take them straight into BG II :)

Comments

  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,660
    edited May 2013
    Playing a pure class, especially a caster, is perfectly viable.

    Buffing/Debuffing/Crowd Control is infinitely superior to healing. Healing spells are what you fit in between all your other spells.

    Take special notice of the Command spell. EXTREMELY potent for most of the game. Especially agaisnt squishy casters that can't take a round of being beaten like a dead mule.

    Your party mage should look at the Sleep spell. VERY powerful as well.

    Depending on how many spell slots you actually have, I'd recommend 2x Command and 2x Cure Light Wounds. That'll go a LONG way to keeping everyone alive. With a few divine casters (I usually have a cleric and Jaheira a Druid/Fighter in my party) you can have a smattering of healing magic between your two casters and lots of good support magic.
  • LindeblomLindeblom Member Posts: 257
    You are absolutely right that the game is VERY hard from start. It will get easier (or at least easier to survive) once you reach level 2-3. I would suggest you pick up NPC's as fast as you find them, even if you dont really like them. An extra body or two will make a big difference early on.

    I also want to congratulate you to a fresh start to this game =)
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    Healing is only useful early on, once you get a few levels under your belt, you can just ignore it, since you'll have the buffs/debuffs necessary to completely lock down enemy encounters.

    Though it depends on your classes as well...Clerics should load up on nothing but command for first level, due to how ridiculously OP that spell is vs damn near everything in BG. Beyond that, just go with what your gut tells ya.

    Druids on the other hand, don't get anything that really jumps out for first level and are free to load up on heals (Entangle is alright in a pinch, but the save bonus REALLY hurts it's umph!). That pattern tends to repeat a lot, as druids just don't get many good spells till very high levels, so if you have a druid, they're going to be primarily healing, though they do start getting some decent summons or debuff spells around 4th+

    Mages shouldn't have anything but sleep till about half way through BG, and then slowly phase it out (just keeping 1 or 2 casts for large groups) for blinds (a blind mage is a dead mage, also works well vs stronger archers, and can heavily dibilitate strong melee..but not as badly as it wrecks mages/archers) and spook (Perfect for taking 1 strong target out of the fight for several rounds,eventually gets the highest natural save penalty of any spell, allowing it to stick even in ToB without needing debuffs). Due to the massive amount of wands available, a mage should never have to memorize a single direct damage spell and instead should focus on buffs or debuffs exclusively.

    Sorcerer is pretty much the same, but you leave out sleep since it becomes useless in BG2, and take another spell (Magic Missile is alight for your last spell pick, since it'll be at full power once you get it, and will be alright vs targets later in BG2 that aren't effected by blind/spook), and basically just build your spell list of essential spells that will remain useful throughout the saga, since you can cast them on the fly. But much like a mage, focus on Buff/Debuff before getting attack spells (you won't need but like 3 attack spells as a sorc, MM, Skull Trap, Horrid Wilting, being my usual 3) the rest can be split up depending on your play style and party.

    Bards, use primarily wands, there's several Fire and Lightning wands that can be found at the beginning of the game, allowing you to save your few spell slots for utility spells the mages don't have room for.
  • SouthpawSouthpaw Member Posts: 2,026
    @Grump - I also like pure classes a bit more. Or dual-classing. Never got to like multiclassing very much.

    Anyway - I don't want to spoil your fun you will be having when learning the new classes, spells and combos - so just a few tips :

    Clerics - Bless, Command, Chant and Hold Person are very good for starters. (Command will lose it's usefulness at higher levels)
    Mages - Sleep, Blindness, Charm Person, Horror and Glitterdust are good starting control spells that will make the fights much easier. (Sleep will lose it's usefulness at higher levels)

    have fun
  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 2,392
    Grump there's obviously a lot of different play styles that can work!

    My own advice would be at first level

    Cleric: Cure light wounds (x2), command
    Mage: Identify

    At second level add Bless for the cleric; and sleep or magic missile for the mage.

    But then I usually start as a warrior of some sort for my PC.

    And yes, I've completed the game, probably 20 times or more.

    Starting with a Bard I would say the biggest issue is just adding some muscle as fast as you can (Khalid and Jaheira probably. Maybe Ajantis) I've played Bards a couple times, very fun characters. Just remember your the utility player; you'll want dedicated specialists for other roles (warrior, thief, mage, cleric).
  • Urd1enUrd1en Member Posts: 84
    cast buffs "at compile time" to prevent healing "at runtime"
  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,366
    i usually jus buff and go because you can never heal someone in a battle when clerics are on being shot or damage so why try?
  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,660
    If I have to heal mid-battle I usually chug a potion. I'll slap a cure spell on someone afterwards. If I do it mid-fight you know things are going bad.
  • GrumpGrump Member Posts: 2
    Thanks for all the help guys! Refocusing my playstyle to be more buff-centric instead of heal-centric is really turning things around. It's crazy how OP Command and Sleep are. Things are only getting easier now that I have room for Aid and Chant.

    Death is a good bit more manageable now that the protagonist is level 3 and the rest of the party is split between 2 and 3 :)
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  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,660
    @Grump You're welcome! I'm glad you're having an easier time!

    As you may have noticed Command casts VERY fast. It can be used to interrupt enemy spellcasters. Magic Missile is good for that as well.
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  • SouthpawSouthpaw Member Posts: 2,026
    Yup. And while Magic Missile, Melf's Acid Arrow or Lightning Bolt are good spells, mostly it's much more effective to disable the opponents and then easily kill them. Thus Sleep, Command, Horror or Charm spells are making fights easier and are more effective than casting 6 Magic Missiles.

    A disabled opponent will not hurt you.
    Preparation is the mother of survival. Or daughter. Or second cousin of your mother's aunt. Or something like that...
  • ShadowTigerShadowTiger Member Posts: 60
    edited May 2013
    At level 1, a cleric is just as almost as a fighter in combat. At higher levels, that becomes less true. So I usually have my cleric fight and just cast heal spells outside of battle. Bless is not that great I prefer to use chant and keep my level 1 slots for healing. Protection from evil is nice because of the long duration. Command and sleep are pretty good I guess but I never use them. I prefer hold person and silence.
  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,660
    @ShadowTiger
    The problem with that, is that you don't start with higher level spell slots. And sleep and command have the benefit of hitting large groups of enemies and of being extremely fast casting respectively. They stop being so effective late in the game when saves get better and enemies have more health, but by then you have other spells to use like you mentioned.

    As the party's level and amount of resources rises, you need to continually reevaluate your options. Chant is great once you have it, but until then you only have Bless and Doom. Web is better than Entangle but you get Entangle way earlier, and i this case they actually stack. (I love stacking multiple spells like Web, Entangle, Greese, and Stinking Cloud. Totally shuts down the opposition.)
  • DjimmyDjimmy Member Posts: 749
    Protections first, then buffs, and then healing if needed.
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    In BG1, command is a single target Death Spell.......enemies have to have higher then 6 HD to get a save, which excludes not only most generic enemies, quite a few named enemies also fall victim. And even in BG2 it's still an effective caster killer, since you can pop it off the instant you see a mage, and there's a high chance he's going down, giving your fighters a chance to close the distance and chunk him, before he can get spells off. (Knocked out enemies are auto-hit, allowing your low level party to pin-cushion the hell out of strong enemies in the first round...you likely won't even need a 2nd cast unless there's multiple strong enemies....(The bandit tent can be finished in 3 rounds if you have a cleric with 3 Commands)).

    Command though stays at the same relative power level, because your melee characters are able to deal even more damage then ever before, and especially once you get IH, can easily kill most enemies in a single round of auto-hits, save for a handful of end-game bosses.


    I'm just very reluctant to use spells with save bonuses (part of why I hate CO...+6 is ridiculous...even vs low enemies it barely works without debuffs)...while they're ok-ish when you're tossing them at low level creatures, slightly higher level creatures just shrug them off most of the time...Web on the other hand has a penalty, which makes it awesome, even in late game without debuffs (and brutal at lower levels).



    Then again...I've very much a believer of Offense is the best defense. Rather then passively waiting to restore damage that's incurred while whittling the encounter down.
  • TheGreatKhanTheGreatKhan Member Posts: 106
    You always keep a few healing spells, just so when you rest your party gets healed. On very rare occasions will I use them in combat.

    If you need to heal in combat, that's what potions are for.

    The buffs you can put on yourself are almost always universally better.
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