Expanded Item Descriptions

Boaster

I have mainly armor in mind when talking about expanded item descriptions.

Wouldn't it be nice to know that wearing Leather Armor actually increases your chance of being hit from Missile and Piercing weapons?

Here is an example of expanded item description, for Leather Armor:

Leather armor, despite the popular misconception, is not soft and supple like the leather used to make a ranger's boots or a druid's robe.  That kind of leather offers no better protection than common clothing.

STATISTICS:

Armor Class: 8
   AC vs piercing:  10
   AC vs missile:  10
Weight: 15
Requires: 4 Strength
Not Usable By:
Mage

Another way of putting it would be:

Leather armor, despite the popular misconception, is not soft and supple like the leather used to make a ranger's boots or a druid's robe.  That kind of leather offers no better protection than common clothing.

STATISTICS:

AC bonus vs piercing:  -2
AC bonus vs missile:  -2

Armor Class: 8

Weight: 15
Requires: 4 Strength
Not Usable By:
Mage

Just basically something that lets players know what they're getting from Armor and Shields in terms of bonus AC. Otherwise, players would have to memorize/remember these things, or be looking in a hand book that displayed this information.

kiros

I like the concept of this idea, I would love to see them improve on Cromwell's smithy like the mod Improved Anvil. Also can the smith in Beregost (BG1) be modified to able to craft/forge items like cromwell does? I played a mod in which this was possible and thoroughly enjoyed it.

Dazzu

This information on the armor IS in the manual, but most people wouldn't likely bother with it. I say it'd be very useful.

Wolfheart

Manual? iPad? Lol. Stuff like that as well as the wild magic tables, spell progression, stats, xp to level up and so forth needs to be available at a glance where it's needed. Putting item data in the items is indeed a step in the right direction. Don't forget *disables arcane spellcasting* and *reduces rogue skills*

Boaster

Wolfheart said:

Manual? iPad? Lol. Stuff like that as well as the wild magic tables, spell progression, stats, xp to level up and so forth needs to be available at a glance where it's needed. Putting item data in the items is indeed a step in the right direction. Don't forget *disables arcane spellcasting* and *reduces rogue skills*

Agreed.

Boaster

Dazzu said:

This information on the armor IS in the manual, but most people wouldn't likely bother with it. I say it'd be very useful.

Well, some things even in the manual are wrong though. For example, it says Halberds do Blunt damage or slashing damage, when in fact they only do piercing.

Hopefully, Halberds get the two damage types (Piercing and Slashing) where you can switch between the two.

So we need descriptions to be as descriptive as possible in regards to all effects provided by an item.

Syntia13

And while they're at it, could they clarify the way bonuses are described? For example: "AC bonus vs piercing: -2" does it mean my AC 5 will change to AC 3, or AC 7?
I always get confused about that. It doesn't help that some stats are best when at their lowest, and some are best at their highest. Also if I remember correctly, the meaning of 'bonus +2/ -2' is not consistent in item descriptions.
Maybe instead of -/+ they could say 'AC/thaco/saving throws increased/decreased by 2', where 'increased' would always mean 'made better', and 'decreased' would always mean 'made worse';

Boaster

Syntia13 said:

And while they're at it, could they clarify the way bonuses are described? For example: "AC bonus vs piercing: -2" does it mean my AC 5 will change to AC 3, or AC 7?
I always get confused about that. It doesn't help that some stats are best when at their lowest, and some are best at their highest. Also if I remember correctly, the meaning of 'bonus +2/ -2' is not consistent in item descriptions.
Maybe instead of -/+ they could say 'AC/thaco/saving throws increased/decreased by 2', where 'increased' would always mean 'made better', and 'decreased' would always mean 'made worse';

Which of the two above examples in the original post do you think makes it easier to understand?

In my opinion the word "bonus" implies "better" and "penalty" implies "worse."

Grammarsalad

100% agree

Grammarsalad

@boaster definitely the first one

agris

@WolfHeart and @Boaster

I completely agree with you guys, we should converge on this thread: http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/3435/educating-a-new-generation-with-descriptions

where we can consolidate these ideas. I think this type of information presentation is going to be key to maintaining a new player base, otherwise players will become frustrated and quit. It is 2012, not 1998 and unfortunately people have less attention for detail (i.e. will read the manual).

GaelicVigil

This is a great idea. The more "manual" in the game, the better.

agris

I think this topic should be merged with the other description thread (http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/3435/educating-a-new-generation-with-descriptions). I like @Ward's idea, but it would put a large burden on the translating team and require an interrupt in their work.

@Boaster's idea is easier to implement, it's numeric and removes some confusion for new players.

In the spirit of improving game mechanic clarity, I propose that the information text given during character creation be improved. I know this would require additional translation, but I feel like the pay off of less frustrated first-timers is more than worth it.

We know that they're reworking the UI, why not expand the character creation info window from BG2 and improve the description to include the ability tables?

Original style


My poor mockup of 'expanded'


If I had better image skills I would have: removed all the border, increased the UI elements and scale the 'info box' to be even larger, but alas I don't.

Boaster

I like that idea as well.

Charts/tables in-game during character generation.

Ward

I agree that most importantly, item descriptions need to describe what it does in the game. I really love my concept but priority is telling players what does what. I never thought items were given enough 'game' detail, not just historical references (Age of Mythology properly does both).

I could write many of these snippets of history myself as I am part of a community of arms collecters, but I couldn't translate them. Somebody told me I could make it a mod, but I don't know how to use WeiDU. All I can do is edit descriptions in IE or NI.

Here's an idea. Add an additional screen. Just put a button on the item description window that says 'Historical Significance' and that will pop up with some facts and stuff.

Keep the regular window for detailed game stuff.

Syntia13

@Boaster

Boaster said:

In my opinion the word "bonus" implies "better" and "penalty" implies "worse."

Right! I knew there were better words to convey what I meant. (Not a native speaker = not always gets the best word on the first try).

Boaster said:

Which of the two above examples in the original post do you think makes it easier to understand?

Definitely the first one:
Armor Class: 8
AC vs piercing: 10
AC vs missile: 10

Because the second one:
AC bonus vs piercing: -2
AC bonus vs missile: -2
Armor Class: 8

...is made of stuff that create the confusion. Since "Leather Armor actually increases your chance of being hit from Missile and Piercing weapons", then the second variant should read:
Armor Class: 8
AC penalty vs piercing: -2
AC penalty vs missile: -2

Boaster

It's still a little confusing either way, really. Because lower armor the better.

So it would need to be "AC penalty versus Missiles: 2." Without adding the minus sign.