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What is the best build for Assassin?

Best Race (in order):
1) Halfling (Excellent bonus to thief, excellent resistances and practically, but it has -1 strength (Bad for backstab) and gains +1 dex (for Good?))

2) Elf (If you use ranged weapon with poison he had seen a great choice, but long sword does not seem to be the best weapon for him, but he gains +1 Dex (for Good?) And has no penalty to strength.)

3) Orc (Some members indicated as the best assassin to Backstab, but it takes a lot of penalties in bonuses to move in the shadows and hide in the shadows, however gains +1 strength and has no penalty to dexterity.)

Best Weapon (Melee):
1) Dagger of Venom? (Damage: 3-6, Speed: 0, THACO +2, 6 poison dam. per round)

2) Staff of Striking? (Damage: 10-15, Speed: 1, THACO +3, each attack uses a charge)

-> If you have better option, what would it be?

Best Weapon (Ranged):
1) Not found a viable option, which suggest? (LongBow, ShortBow, Crosbow, Dart or Sling)

Best Armor:
1) Shadow Armor (AC 4, +15% Hide in Shadows)

2) Boots of Stealth (+35 Stealth) or Boots of Speed (Increases movement speed)

3) Here still do not know what the best choices? (Rings, Bracer, Gauntlets, Amulet, Cloak and helm)

-> If you have better option, what would it be?

Weapon and Armor list:
Melee - http://mikesrpgcenter.com/bgate/melee.html
Ranged - http://mikesrpgcenter.com/bgate/ranged.html
Armor - http://mikesrpgcenter.com/bgate/armor.html

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Comments

  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,867
    edited May 2013
    I prefer Gnomes myself...they get a good even spread of abilities, but without the halfling's strength penalty or the dwarf's dex penalty, and assassins need all the free thief points they can get, which rules out humans and half-orcs who don't get ANY racial mods.

    Never put points into Hide...the little bit you get from shadow armor is all you need and by the time you get boots of speed, your MS should be enough to get a total 55+% chance of hiding when shadowed (without boots of stealth), which is all you need, once you can outrun enemies.

    Darts starting out or when there's a large group of tough enemies (used with poison weapon), then Dagger of Venom for most targets BS, and staff of striking for things you absolutely want to DIE!? (I consider recharging items with buyback an exploit and don't use it, so have to spend SoS's charges wisely).

    (* Darts, Single weapon *, dagger *, quartstaff *. (or two-handed style in place of single, but I've found single weapon is more useful...you can pick up the missing style in BG2..also want to get scimitar style in the sequel..using belm and later Scarlet Ninja-to are awesome for enemies you can't backstab..especially if you dual-wield them, under IH, while using tenser's from a scroll or the figurine that does pretty much the same thing).

    Shadow armor, obviously

    Boots of stealth until you get the boots of speed, which are flat out superior.

    All the rings of invisibility you can find (there should be 2), the +thac0 bracers, amulet doesn't matter...greenstone I guess, there are no helms for assassins in BG1, cloak of balduran. Belt of giant strength, or belt of piercing, whichever you need more (with 18 base str, + str manual...probably piercing..ranged will be your biggest enemy when hit/fading, if you went with a halfling, you'll definitely want the str belt)

    monico
  • MortiannaMortianna Member Posts: 1,355
    edited May 2013
    My favorite for BGEE is:

    Elf (sleep/charm resistance; +1 DEX; +1 racial bonus to hit with longsword and bow stacks well with the Assassin's +1 to hit/dmg bonus).

    Melee Weapon: Dagger of Venom for backstabbing (doubles with the Assassin poison ability); Varscona +2 or Drizzt's Icingdeath +3 for general melee, and Staff-Mace +2 for slashing/piercing resistant enemies. The Short Sword of Backstabbing +3 would be a more appealing option if it actually offered a +1 to the backstab modifier.

    Ranged Weapon: Short Bow (since pure-class Assassins can't use long bows) or Darts. Darts can be really effective, since you get 3 attacks per round, can use a buckler while throwing them, and for the wide variety of darts, especially the Darts of Stunning.

    Armor: Shadow Armor at lower and mid-levels for the +15% to HS; Drizzt's Mithril Chainmail +4 for higher levels, as Potions of Perception can replace the bonus to HS (I forgot that Drizzt's chain cannot be used by pure-class thieves. I was thinking of my Fighter/Assassin).

    Misc: Boots of Stealth (+20% to MS adn +15% to HS is a must-have), Cloak of Non-Detection, Potions/Rings of Invisibility, Potions of Perception, Potions of Mind Focusing (+3 to DEX and INT), Potions of Power (THACO 80%, HP +20%, thieving skills +20%), Potions of Strength (18 STR). I really like having the Claw of Kazgaroth, but make sure to carry lots of Antidotes or Elixirs of Health due to its poison save penalty. The Gauntlets of Weapon Skill (+1 to melee) or Bracers of Archery (+2 to hit) are also great to have for THACO buffing.

    While Assassins' thieving skills advance slowly at 15 points/level, there are plenty of magic items throughout the game that allow your character to compensate. Even in BG2, I was using potions, rings, and the Boots of Stealth to buff my PC's skills well through ToB, since she was my only thief in the party.

    Post edited by Mortianna on
    Southpawfrancomonicodunbar
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,867
    Cloak of non-detection is pointless....no enemy in BG uses any spell that can reveal stealth or invisibility.

  • SouthpawSouthpaw Member Posts: 2,026
    I agree with Mortianna's build.
    Even though I mostly use human or a half-orc.
    This has been around several times...and there is no "best build".
    Some have their advantages, some have different advantages.
    Maybe only the human race has no advantages at all.

    Btw - a bow + bolts of biting + venom = enemies not even able to move, because the poison ticks keep their avatars do the "hurt" animation 6 times a round.

  • ArcanjoArcanjo Member Posts: 155
    What is BTW?
    Actually should have put the title, which builds you use and more efficient to consider an Assassin.

    You then leave in a 50-point skills and move to hide in the shadows? The rest put in who?
    - Detect traps, Pick Pocket, unlock chests

  • mjsmjs Member Posts: 742
    edited May 2013
    Arcanjo said:

    What is BTW?

    by the way (edit: actually defined btw, instead of repeating it)

    (I consider recharging items with buyback an exploit and don't use it, so have to spend SoS's charges wisely).

    as a counter view: it's not an exploit, you're paying for a recharging service

    Post edited by mjs on
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,867
    Counter-Counter-View, there is no such service...it specifically says in the 2nd Ed DM guide that charge based items CANNOT be recharged, otherwise they'd be daily use and cost a couple million gold for that number of uses. The staff of the magi (pnp version) is the only item I can recall that can actually recharge itself, by acting as a rod of absorption and applying spell levels absorbed to it's charge amount (and exploding and killing everyone if it sucks up too much). 3rd edition, added a couple specialized 3rd party classes that could recharge items, but this ain't 3rd edition.

    mjspixie359T2av
  • francofranco Member Posts: 507
    @ZanathKariashi said:
    (I consider recharging items with buyback an exploit and don't use it, so have to spend SoS's charges wisely).

    @mjs said "as a counter view: it's not an exploit, you're paying for a recharging service."


    What bothers me about recharges is that I can't visualize that there is a magic users service that goes around recharging these wands for all the store keepers. I can't bring myself to see that magic wands are part of a regular business like a dry cleaning service. They are supposed to be something much more rare. I like to feel that wands and scrolls are a personal craft intended originally for use by the mage himself or his closest associates and that they have to be found by the adventurers.


  • Nitram_Vi_HermanniaNitram_Vi_Hermannia Member Posts: 64
    franco said:

    They are supposed to be something much more rare. I like to feel that wands and scrolls are a personal craft intended originally for use by the mage himself or his closest associates and that they have to be found by the adventurers.


    And what will these adventurers do with the wands? It's obivous. Sell them, because they get plenty gold out of them. So it actually make sense, than there are loads of wands that you can buy.

  • mjsmjs Member Posts: 742
    @franco personally i only use thalantyr, sorcerous sundries etc to recharge, it would be strange to have the nashkell storekeep do it

  • Urd1enUrd1en Member Posts: 84
    Best Race (in order):
    3) Half-Orc
    for sure, 19 Str brings you +7 to damage (+21 with x3 backstub)

    Best Weapon (Melee):
    1) Dagger of Venom
    yep, poison even kills Drizzt

    Best Weapon (Ranged):
    1) S.Bow (pure thief), L.Bow (fighter/thief)
    two shots per round from start

    Southpaw
  • GishGish Member Posts: 74
    I'm new to thief characters, I am lost. Does ranged get backstabbing or not?

  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,660
    No. You need to sneak behind them and use a melee weapon from the thief list.

  • KloroxKlorox Member Posts: 803
    Urd1en said:

    Best Race (in order):
    3) Half-Orc
    for sure, 19 Str brings you +7 to damage (+21 with x3 backstub)

    Best Weapon (Melee):
    1) Dagger of Venom
    yep, poison even kills Drizzt

    Best Weapon (Ranged):
    1) S.Bow (pure thief), L.Bow (fighter/thief)
    two shots per round from start

    does STR damage multiply? I seem to remember that it isn't supposed to in PnP, but I can't be certain.

    If it does, definitely go with half Orc.

  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,660
    I don't think it does. But thieves can certainly benefit from boosted strength just to hit their targets in melee.

    TJ_HookerKloroxmonico
  • KloroxKlorox Member Posts: 803
    CaptRory said:

    I don't think it does. But thieves can certainly benefit from boosted strength just to hit their targets in melee.

    Definitely. And heck, even if +7 isn't multiplied, its still + (freakin) 7!!!

    Ludwig_IImonico
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,008


    I'm playing with a halfling assassin now in BG2. 18 strength thanks to the tome and with dohm i can get that up to an even better level. I'm using a crossbow and a longsword (for backstabbing) at the moment.
    Klorox said:

    CaptRory said:

    I don't think it does. But thieves can certainly benefit from boosted strength just to hit their targets in melee.

    Definitely. And heck, even if +7 isn't multiplied, its still + (freakin) 7!!!
    Kind of pointless to point this out a week late, but you figure out the multiplied damage then you add in the damage you get from your strength bonus.

  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,851
    edited June 2013
    Much as I love Halflings, I think the best for Assassin is probably Elf. Elves get less racial thieving bonuses, but they are more stealth-oriented instead of the general spread Halflings have. Furthermore they get THAC0 bonuses to swords and bows, which are excellent weapons for a thief to use. Finally, they don't have the Strength woes that Halflings have. 18 STR + a certain tome is a very common and indeed good tactic.

    If you are playing an Assassin DON'T bother to put points into Open Locks and Find Traps. Total waste. Go ahead and do it when you hit BGII, because there are enough points going around and thieves are a rare commodity in that game, but if you do it in BG1 you are gimping your Assassin. Get a second thief.

    Half-Orc Assassin sucks. Yeah, I said it. They're better off Swashbucklin'. I tend to view the Swashy and Assassin as opposites; the ideal party thieves are a Swashbuckler and an Assassin, IMO.

    monico
  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,364
    best assassin build is tank
    turbo!

    RAM021
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,008
    edited June 2013
    Quartz said:

    Much as I love Halflings, I think the best for Assassin is probably Elf. Elves get less racial thieving bonuses, but they are more stealth-oriented instead of the general spread Halflings have. Furthermore they get THAC0 bonuses to swords and bows, which are excellent weapons for a thief to use. Finally, they don't have the Strength woes that Halflings have. 18 STR + a certain tome is a very common and indeed good tactic.

    If you are playing an Assassin DON'T bother to put points into Open Locks and Find Traps. Total waste. Go ahead and do it when you hit BGII, because there are enough points going around and thieves are a rare commodity in that game, but if you do it in BG1 you are gimping your Assassin. Get a second thief.

    Half-Orc Assassin sucks. Yeah, I said it. They're better off Swashbucklin'. I tend to view the Swashy and Assassin as opposites; the ideal party thieves are a Swashbuckler and an Assassin, IMO.

    The 19 strength and better bow/long swords is nice but I'll stick with the halfling for survivability reasons. I like the saving throws and I can always throw on one of the strength items.

    What is a great thing for assassins, especially in BG2 that you can get before leaving the promenade is...

    The ring of invisibility found on Brennan Risling in the Den of the Seven Vales, though it can be difficult to get, is great. Plus when you have the cash you can buy the ring of air control from the adventure mart. Both give you some kind of invisibility once per day, which is great for backstabbing type characters

  • TyranusTyranus Member Posts: 268
    No love for the mighty Dwarf in this thread! Our bearded bretheren have the same save bonuses as Halflings, but trade skill points for extra damage. Hmmm.... reminds me of a certain thief kit.

    Dwarves can also use a certain cursed item that I strongly believe is the strongest equiped item in the game with almost no penalty.

    Brude
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,683
    Well, clearly this is a build for BG, so:

    Race: elf - for 19 dexterity, bonus with long swords and bows, what include short bows.

    Ranged weapons:
    The bow that one of the 2 assassins working for the Iron Throne thatfirst appear in the norhteast part of Baldur's Gate

    It's a shortbow, by the way.

    Gaunlets of weapon expertise for gloves
    (Tazok camp or Melium in the firewine Bridge)
    or Gaunlets of archery
    Vax the highwayman
    .

    Ring of invisibility
    Ulgoth's Beard
    and an ring of free action (it stacks with boots of speed, but not with the spell itself)

    Boots of speed

    Amulet you got the one you can get your hands upon, cos there aren't many amulets in the game.

    Shield - Kiel's buckler (+1 dexterity)+ tome of quickness to set dex to 21 that enhance even more the thief skills and give an extra AC point bonus.

    http://stane0.tripod.com/BG1Tables.html

    http://bg2download.free.fr/BG2_manual.pdf

    (Elf+kiel buckler+ book of quickness= 21 dex) 21 dexterity elf = -5 AC, +25 pickpocket, +25 open locks, +20 detect traps, +25 move silently, +30 hide in shadows.

    (Halfling+kiel Buckler+book of quickness=20 dex) 20 dexterity halfling = +25 pickpocket, +30 Open locks, +20 detect traps, +28 hide in shadows, +33 move silently.

    Cloak - Of balduran? Cloak of displacement (CLCK03) isn't bad at all also.

    pixie359monico
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,859
    Halflings have a dex bonus, and vastly better racial thief bonuses. And saves. Slings can get pretty good.

    elminster
  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,364
    edited June 2013
    buff halfling with str spell so he can go on a rampage with sling lol

    bullets are weak compared to arrows and bolts that is sad

  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,859
    @zur312 Agreed, why would they punish slings with bad apr and bad damage? Slings are pretty damaging in reality. Just gets worse compared to acid arrows and bolts of lightning!

  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,364
  • KaltzorKaltzor Member Posts: 1,050
    In terms of pure damage, I do suppose a Half-Orc Assassin might do the job best at 19 STR. And if it's not a solo run, you can negate any need stealth skills with invisibility spells as long as Xzar isn't your only mage.

  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,364
    half orc assasin should do the job best but my characters are more versatile so i would make him human assasinX/fighter so he can actually fight like a fighter and backstab with posion

    or fighter/thief

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,008
    kamuizin said:

    Well, clearly this is a build for BG, so:

    Race: elf - for 19 dexterity, bonus with long swords and bows, what include short bows.

    Ranged weapons:

    The bow that one of the 2 assassins working for the Iron Throne thatfirst appear in the norhteast part of Baldur's Gate

    It's a shortbow, by the way.

    Gaunlets of weapon expertise for gloves
    (Tazok camp or Melium in the firewine Bridge)
    or Gaunlets of archery
    Vax the highwayman
    .

    Ring of invisibility
    Ulgoth's Beard
    and an ring of free action (it stacks with boots of speed, but not with the spell itself)

    Boots of speed

    Amulet you got the one you can get your hands upon, cos there aren't many amulets in the game.

    Shield - Kiel's buckler (+1 dexterity)+ tome of quickness to set dex to 21 that enhance even more the thief skills and give an extra AC point bonus.

    http://stane0.tripod.com/BG1Tables.html

    http://bg2download.free.fr/BG2_manual.pdf

    (Elf+kiel buckler+ book of quickness= 21 dex) 21 dexterity elf = -5 AC, +25 pickpocket, +25 open locks, +20 detect traps, +25 move silently, +30 hide in shadows.

    (Halfling+kiel Buckler+book of quickness=20 dex) 20 dexterity halfling = +25 pickpocket, +30 Open locks, +20 detect traps, +28 hide in shadows, +33 move silently.

    Cloak - Of balduran? Cloak of displacement (CLCK03) isn't bad at all also.


    As Dreadkhan pointed out Halflings can get 19 dexterity from the get go, just like elves. So the maximum for either would be 21 with the buckler.

    So... (I think this is accurate)

    (Elf+kiel buckler+ book of quickness= 21 dex) 21 dexterity elf = +25 pickpocket, +20 find traps +25 open locks, +25 move silently, +30 hide in shadows.

    (Halfling+kiel Buckler+book of quickness=21 dex) 21 dexterity halfling = +25 pickpocket, +25 find traps, +30 Open locks, +35 move silently. +35 hide in shadows.

    kamuizin
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