The Avenger Druid...
Aron740
Member Posts: 153
Hey all,
I am once again planning to try another class (before completing the game of course... Can't break the habit) and I wanted to try something really different and that is when I turned my gaze to the Avenger druid...
The class seems really different from anything I've played before since it is some kind of mix between Mage/priest/Fighter(?)/shapeshifter.
So I have a few questions if you all would be so very kind and helpful to answer them
First a simple or maybe hard question:
How is the class/kit? Is it fun? Is it easy/hard to play as?
Second question, what kind of armor can the Avenger use?
In the description it says that they can only use leather armor but what armors count as leather armor? I did some quick testing and saw that studded leather does apparently not count as leather armor? Bug?
What are some good armors (and trinkets etc.) that I can use? And if you know, where can I find them?
And lastly, What kind of weapon would be good for an Avenger?
Does good weapon damage add up to the damage of your shapeshifted form? Does extra effects from weapons add to it? Does shapeshift attacks count as +1,+2 etc? Or to clarify can I still hit enemies with protection from normal weapons or magical for that matter?
And a followup: If I were to use the dagger of venom, would my spider/salamander/wyvern form get the extra poison damage?
I have played a lot of baldurs gate before bgee but I always played kind of without really thinking about what I did so if someone could help me to their their hard earned trial and error experience I would be very grateful
Thanks!
Ps. For roleplaying, what is a good god for the Avenger druid?
I am once again planning to try another class (before completing the game of course... Can't break the habit) and I wanted to try something really different and that is when I turned my gaze to the Avenger druid...
The class seems really different from anything I've played before since it is some kind of mix between Mage/priest/Fighter(?)/shapeshifter.
So I have a few questions if you all would be so very kind and helpful to answer them
First a simple or maybe hard question:
How is the class/kit? Is it fun? Is it easy/hard to play as?
Second question, what kind of armor can the Avenger use?
In the description it says that they can only use leather armor but what armors count as leather armor? I did some quick testing and saw that studded leather does apparently not count as leather armor? Bug?
What are some good armors (and trinkets etc.) that I can use? And if you know, where can I find them?
And lastly, What kind of weapon would be good for an Avenger?
Does good weapon damage add up to the damage of your shapeshifted form? Does extra effects from weapons add to it? Does shapeshift attacks count as +1,+2 etc? Or to clarify can I still hit enemies with protection from normal weapons or magical for that matter?
And a followup: If I were to use the dagger of venom, would my spider/salamander/wyvern form get the extra poison damage?
I have played a lot of baldurs gate before bgee but I always played kind of without really thinking about what I did so if someone could help me to their their hard earned trial and error experience I would be very grateful
Thanks!
Ps. For roleplaying, what is a good god for the Avenger druid?
1
Comments
it is better than regual pure druid
venom dagger won't add to shapeshift
shapeshifts the best is sword spider
shapeshifts count as i don't know it was i think +2 in IWD and +2 in BG2 elementals
You can wear leather only, protector of the second+2 is a leather armor enchanted to be tougher. Leather will always have +2 penalty against piercing and missile weapons so daggers and arrows will hit you.
Haven't tested with shapeshiftng much, but your weapons are of no use when you shapeshift.
For Gods, Silvanus aka Oakfather is a good choice
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Silvanus
Jaheira follows Silvanus too.
My typical armor choice is hide armor and some trinket of protection +2. Armor and weapon make little or no difference at all when shapeshifted, so I don't focus on them to much. I typically put a pip into slings, some type of hand weapon, and sword and shield style.
IIRC, no weapon or body armor will do anything while shapeshifted. Magic bucklers will help a little while shapeshifted (i.e. you'll get the +1 CON from Buckley's Buckler, but not the AC). All boots, rings, amulets, cloaks will work while shapeshifted unless they set a stat (i.e. Gauntlets of Dexterity won't work, Gauntlets of Weapon Expertise will work). I never bothered to see if helmets did anything. In BGEE, all shapeshifted attacks do NOT count as magical attacks so you can't get past normal weapon immunity.
However, I would like to carry him over into BG2 and TOB and I am concerned high level Druids get kind of weak at the end.
Can anyone speak on the druid HLAs? Do the new shapeshifts keep the druid poweful?
Web is always a nice spell to have though, due to it's penalty, and LB is potentially quite useful if you practice aiming them. Helping prop up the druids less stellar lower level spells. The Elemental summon HLAs are a POS since the elementals cap at +2 hit, vs the normal elementals that hit as +5. And the HP difference isn't really that much.
Getting HLA won't really change much as they're generally inferior to spells you already get just for being a high level druid.
You're hardly useless, but more of a team-player then a Gamebreaking God-mode Mage, or nigh unkillable, I-WIN buttoning Cleric.
I will make one soon and one last question, What race would be great with the avenger? A half-elf or a human?
Just started playing around with my new shapeshifting abilities and I must say I'm far from impressed, the spellcasting is really fun and I use it alot. And to be able to throw around chromatic orbs is true winner and the web spell is awesome but, the shapeshifting...
The shape-shifting is so soooo sad. My character usually use throwing daggers(just the regular with no magic enchantment) and they do soooooo much more damage than my attacks in sword spider form or any other form for that matter. My thaco in spider is 16 and my damage is 4-7 but I hit rather fast, four attacks per round, but I rarely manage to hit something. So the spider is weaker in every way and I can't cast spells as one.
Unless I'm doing something really wrong I must say that this class is sadly very very bad. But up to level seven it was a really fun class that really evolved between levels.
For me this class is a 5/10, average. Could be very useful at times and it was fun to abuse web but when I finally reached the carrot I so badly wanted I just got a bit disappointed. Still as I said the avenger was rather fun, but I would rather have the avenger as a npc
And btw, thanks all for the help!
But I don't know if I will continue to play this class/kit
Next up will probably be a "thief class"...
tbc.
When I play an Avenger, I mostly do it for the extra spells and the fast level progression, though. I've never been a fan of shapeshifting, because casting spells is almost always stronger. And clerics and mages really can't be beat in that department.
Avenger could be a nice alternative to cleric-mage - fast leveling, at least until that awful level 14 hump, you get your healing/offense combo, and you get d8 for hit dice, as well as the shapeshifting, for whatever that's worth.
I think it would really start to suffer come late SoA and ToB, though, at least compared to clerics and mages, it would.
I have one built up to level 7 in a save. It was fun to play in BG1. I don't think I'll take it to BG2, though.
Though the avenger will always be primarily a caster, just with options for dealing with enemies resistant to magic, and/or requiring high to-hit requirements.
And yes, if this was PnP druids are an extremely versatile class, with their shapeshifting allowing them to do all sorts of crazy stunts (like turning into a bird and flying around the area at high speed, looking for enemies), or turning into a deadly variety of snake and slithering into camp and biting a strong enemy target while they sleep or a constrictor and squeezing them to death before they can make a sound. Or going from a field mouse to a grizzly bear and then mauling someone to death from a surprise attack.
Not mention, after 16+, they basically become phyiscal gods, literal avatars of nature's wrath, able to summon elementals from the 4 elemental planes pretty much at will, limited only by a total HD controlled at once equal to 2x their HD. And also planeshift to the elemental planes, and live there as if they were native creatures at will. Complete immunity to aging, poison, and natural diseases.
On the other hand...their ability to level up for levels 14, 15, and 16 are tied to their organization, of which only a handful can exist of each in the world at a time (only 1 at a time for 16). And dual-classed druids can't exceed level 13 in druid, since they aren't dedicated enough to cause (technically applies to MC too, but half-elves are limited to a max of 13 anyway, since the druid upper hierarchy is a human-only order).
Regarding shape shift, it's important to keep in mind that spiders are immune to Web. So the avenger can cast a Web on its enemies, shift to spider, and then go and tear them apart. That is a lot of fun.
Loading up on chromatic orbs and webs is such a relief, as druid level 1-2 spells are rather uninteresting. Webbing enemies and then blasting them with orbs is a true pleasure.
Finally, there is a 'cheat' that I feel a little guilty about using, but that makes the class just a little bit stronger. If you equip your avenger with a weapon in his 'off' hand, and then shape shift, you will gain an additional attack. That means 5 attacks for your sword spider, 3 attacks of your wyvern.
Web immunity was essential for my avenger's tactics during my March-April BG1 game!
If you use them right they can be quite powerful.
Example: Improved invisibility, barkskin, cleric buffs, haste and web and they are lightning fast death machines that can simply destroy enemy archers and mages in seconds without them even counterattacking if they get out of the web.
Also even if I don't have spider spawn on Baeloth I think that could also be a great addition to the avengers murder spree capabilities.
Another great bonus is if you chose to have a low reputation while dreaming, so you can have the drain and vampire spells. You can actually cast them in spider form to interrupt casters and regenerate health and I would say that is much better than some sad healing spell.
Only bad thing is that keeping a low reputition in this game is both hard and bad..
Still I don't like the armor restriction and the spiders low strength, also if they had poison before I would want it back :] Buuuut that could make them "overpowered"
Question:
Would the spider form benefit from some strength enhancing item? Like a belt of strength? If so, is there one in bgee?
I know they existed in bg2.
The Avenger's Sword Spider form does deal Poison damage in BG2, but not in BG:EE.
Hopefully the sword spider will be back to 'full strength' in BG2 EE!
web+SS was the way i went, never really used the other shifts