Despite he being an outlaw, I won't even discuss law vs chaos. He clearly enforces the police activity, devoting his life against crime. Of course he act by his own code of conduct (what already defines Lawful), but he believes ultimately in the society's laws. He choose to wear the cowl, to become a vigilante, to give back the order to the authorities (since in Gotham the mobsters are more powerful than authorities).
We could discuss good vs evil tendencies. I could accept the 3.5 definition for Batman in the "Complete Scoundrel" - that being Lawful Good - but I think that "Good" vs "Evil" is in second plane for Bruce's thoughts. He ultimately believes in his own code of conduct: He won't kill, even if the Joker treat lifes, but he have no problem in torturing criminals to achieve his goals. He favors good instead of evil, but he have no problems in committing evil acts to achieve his goals. But Neutral characters rarely will be examples of absolute neutrality... They often have a preference for Good or Evil.
Kal-El (Clark Kent) Kryptonian - Lawful Good Fighter Lv. 4
STR 25 (25 is reasonable for Fighting Statistics, but not for lifting things. So, Kryptonian's Super Power solves the problem) DEX 15 (Fast, yes. Flexible and acrobatic? Not so much) CON 19 (Not relevant healing factor. So, let's keep it lower than 20) INT 11 (Regular, but a little higher than ordinary) WIS 12 (Almost naive, but with good sense of righteousness) CHA 14 (Inspiring persona and empathic, but not enough magnetic presence to lead)
Kryptoninan Special Abilities -Always under the effect of Fly and Improved Haste spells. -X-Ray Vision and Superhuman Hearing. -Super Power: Weight Allowance and Max Press are multiplied by 20. +100% Bend Bars and +20 Open Doors. -Steelskin: Natural AC is -10. Invulnerable to damage that is less than 20. +90% resistance against any damage. -Fists count as a +5 magical weapon.
In dnd, 10 str was the benchmark of average... in a world in which a pretty active life was the norm. I remember an author of one of the old books pointing out that 10 str should be thought of as average for medieval life, when most people engaged in manual labour at least full time hours a day. Average today in the west is proboably 6 or 7. How many people do you know that can actually carry +50lbs for significant distances? I'm a pretty big guy (not great upper body strength, but tons of core), and I have a heck of a time carrying a log over 100lbs more than a kilometer.
You guys are REALLY generous for str rolls here.
Louis Cyr 18/00 (probably had DUHM as an ability though) 13 18 13 9 14
@elminster John A had to have an 18 cons... unless you're arguing long term drinking damaged his liver down to 16 cons.
Fighter (judo)/Mage (KGB agent, *intelligence* agency that is)
Strength: 22 (wears girdle of fire giant strength, 18/50 original) Dexterity 18 (wears gauntlets of dexterity, 15 original) Constitution 16 (he was simply unlucky with this roll) Intelligence 17 (no complaints, the guy is genius) Wisdom 13 (he is experienced, but still has a long way to go, maybe he will find those 3 tomes) Charisma 20 (wears Nymph Cloak, he is evil indeed)
Rasputin!!!
Deceased Fighter/Cleric
Strength: 16 Dexterity: 14 Constitution: 19 (he had 18 and used a tome) Intelligence: 15 (clever, crafty little man) Wisdom: 21 (found the tomes, and his divine spells of healing and clairvoyance reached legendary proportions) Charisma: 20 (wears Algernon's Cloak, charisma at 18, charms anyone he likes with unlimited charges)
@elminster John A had to have an 18 cons... unless you're arguing long term drinking damaged his liver down to 16 cons.
As I understand it when it came to his drinking habits he was off and on throughout his life. I think 16 is probably a fair reflection for his stats. He certainly had a habit of showing up to parliament drunk, but I've not seen anything really definitive that showed that he was capable of handling as much alcohol as what I'd expect from someone with 18 con.
I still haven't found a site that puts it into perspective as well as this one, and it even goes a little high. Using just one ability score to put it in perspective, a full-grown bear was said to have a strength of 18(00) in 2nd edition. How many people do you know that could wrestle a bear and win? Before you answer, keep this in mind:
"The strength . . . is in keeping with his size," describes Ben East in Bears. "He is a very powerfully built, a heavy skeleton overlaid with thick layers of muscle as strong as rawhide rope. He can hook his long, grizzly-like front claws under a slab of rock that three grown men could not lift, and flip it over almost effortlessly...." "... a brown [bear] ... took a thousand-pound steer a half mile up an almost vertical mountain, much of the way through alder tangles with trunks three or four inches thick."
I think most of the stats here, though appropriate in specific scores, have been far too high on average.
@Isandir well, I dunno. I think the *actual* human maximum for a stat is a long the lines of 20-21. See, when I(and everyone else, it looks like) make a character test, I include a portion that figures a race, even though everyone taking the test is clearly human. On this logic, certain people in the real work end up as gnomes or half orcs, ect. This enables them to get a 19 in something. Then if you consider the fact of theoretical tomes, then you can end up at 20. I don't think you can really compare a bear to a human strength-wise. A human could never be as strong as a bear, curse bears are much larger than any human. Their anatomy is different. And besides, Stats, especially 2e, are a strange, oversimplified system created for a game. Also, people will exaggerate stats, of course. They're posting people they admire greatly.
Reality is that even with years of hard work, even professional strongmen (who usually have good genes for strength to begin with) are usually capped at 18/00 or less. They arent generally that young either. Note, old editions had differnt stat modifiers for age categories, there used to be a strength bonus for the '30s' range. 19 strength is INCREDIBLY strong, so generally people cant reach that without steroids. The guy I made stats for is the strongest man in modern history, for example. Even with steroids, he is pretty much it today even. Some very heavy abusers of steroids can maybe do more for specific excercises (ie bench press), but cant perform all of the feats Cyre did.
I think an argument could be made that most stats arent as measureable as strength, but if we use it as a benchmark, an 18 is pretty high. Assuming we are rolling 3d6, not even 500 in 100k will have an in a given stat 18. Thats pretty ridiculously rare, but its probably reasonable. Remember, having even an 18 int isnt very useable unless you have other decent mental stats, same with physical. Most exceptionally smart people have ~15 int, and likely decent wis and cha. Same for many athletic people, though truly exceptional ones will have higher stats.
Even then, high stats doesnt equal good motivation or ambition. Many people dont really want to take excessive risks in life, even if payouts can be exorbitant; this is one reason poorer and oppressed populations produce more atheletes I'm sure.
Thats a bit tall for Hill Giants, but those look like halflings, so my scale could be wonked out. They are around 11ft, and weigh half a ton... so like a kodiak bear minus claws. A kodiak btw wont climb up a tree to catch you, they'll destroy the tree. Real problem solvers!
Yeah, I think they are halflings. It's an image of Hill Giants from Pathfinder. But here is a picture from Hill Giants from Forgotten Realms:
Throwing rocks of this size... It's not something humans do in real life. But, in a world of fantasy, it's possible to imagine that the strongest half-orc of the world could do... Maybe.
Wulfgar (from the Drizzt series) was one of the few human characters I've seen with an assigned strength of 19 (in the Heroes' Lorebook). Based on the description from the Forgotten Realms wiki, I doubt few men alive could match him:
"As described in 'The Crystal Shard', Wulfgar is roughly 7 ft 0 in (2.13 m), blond-haired and blue-eyed (common for the barbarian tribes he hails from), and developed his awesomely muscled physique when he was in servitude to the dwarf Bruenor Battlehammer for five years—working alongside dwarves, who are renowned for being tireless. Wulfgar is broad-shouldered and thick-chested with a wiry waist, and his arms have been described as thicker than a fat dwarf's thighs.
Wulfgar has above-average strength for even his barbarian race. For instance, Wulfgar once pulled the prow of an entire ship out of the water, and once lifted a three-hundred-pound man with one arm, and then threw him through the tavern where the bar fight had began. Also, when he challenged King Heafstaag, a mighty barbarian leader in Icewind Dale, Wulfgar literally crushed the King's head like a melon with his bare hands. Wulfgar managed to resist Heaftaag's spine shattering bear hug as he did so. He also used a large, irritable camel as a projectile weapon to defeat a gang of bandits in 'The Halfling's Gem', and escaped a flesh golem, Bok, that was slowly bear-hugging him to death by tearing off its head with his bare hands."
Just under .5%, but yeah, thats the idea. Older dnd was terrible for making the bonus' for stats scale nicely, but arguably 3.x resulted in the opposite scale problem, not enough difference between 14 and 16 str. The difference is more substantial if you remember common people have maybe 10 hp in their prime. Suddenly that 1 extra damage is looking more worrisome. Toss in the lack of actual bonus' in a magic free world, and stats seem less insignificant.
The game plays pretty differnetly of you greatly reduce the availability of magic, ie risks are stupid. If your pc is going to have to sit around recovering after killing a lower level opponent because the enemy rolled a 20, you start thinking differently. Any bonus is likely significant, too. But I like grit, and am weird.
In 3.x, you could theoretically max out at 23 str as a human, if you dump all your attribute boosts to str. That would allow you to carry up to 600lbs as a heavy load, or deadlift about 1200lbs, which is a huge amount. That said, Cyre could apparently pick up a 500lb rock to chest height. I think my max is around 150lbs. Obviously can lift more if I'm not actually lifting from the ground, but 500 is crazy to imagine.
Funny thing about the 'humans as other races' comment from @meagloth, Cyre was built like a very stocky dwarf, but a taller one, being 5'10 and over 300lbs.
Edit: Since I wrote this it has been revealed that Rob Ford has cancer. Out of solidarity I've increased his constitution to 25. Hopefully he pulls through.
Name: Santa Claus Race: Human (special - no limit to number of times can dual class) Class/Level: Fighter 3rd/Thief 7th/Illusionist 16th Alignment: Lawful Good
Str: 18/99 (so he can lift all those bags of presents) Dex: 16 (climbing up and down chimneys, fine manipulation when making toys) Con: 18 (keeps going until the job is done) Int: 13 (tinkerer, toymaker) Wis: 17 (he is Santa, of course he's wise) Cha: 18 (great leader, commands loads of elves, gnomes, etc)
He has 3 levels of fighter because I think he is probably over 6ft tall and very well built. He is probably more of a natural brawler than a trained fighter; with his exceptional strength I imagine him to be quite formidable when enraged - although he could easily be bested in physical combat by a seasoned fighter.
Although I've given him 7 levels of thief, I don't think he should be allowed to back-stab as that is just not in his nature. Instead, when he is in a position where other thieves could attempt a back-stab, a hit from him (unarmed, touch attack) forces a save vs. spells at a -4 penalty to avoid falling sleep for 2d6 turns.
His 16 levels of illusionist allow him to perform some pretty amazing feats of magic, although he's not quite up there with the best. But hey, it's Santa!
PS - He's not subject to the normal attribute restrictions for dual classing either.
@Sorvan76 You are assuming Santa Claus is a person, and not a minor god, spirit (of Christmas), etc. I like the Nicholas St. North version from William Joyce. He starts out as a thief/buccaneer, becomes a mage and ends up embodying the spirit of giving. (The Film, "Rise of the Guardians" were based on the books by William Joyce. He also wrote the stories behind "The Fantastic Flying Books of Mr. Morris Lesmore", "Meet the Robinsons" and "Epic" along with the animated series "Rolie Polie Olie" and "George Shrinks") Of course, that version has Abominable Snowmen being the workers making toys, and the elves (his former pirate/buccaneer crew) being mere comic relief.
I also like his version of the Easter Bunny- E. Aster Bunnymund is a pooka (magical faerie rabbit), and the last of his kind. He creates chocolates because he likes to, but he rarely eats them- because chocolate changes Pookas into an engine of destruction. (Seriously, you have to see the picture to believe it!) But he will do it if his friends are in trouble.
Comments
We could discuss good vs evil tendencies. I could accept the 3.5 definition for Batman in the "Complete Scoundrel" - that being Lawful Good - but I think that "Good" vs "Evil" is in second plane for Bruce's thoughts. He ultimately believes in his own code of conduct: He won't kill, even if the Joker treat lifes, but he have no problem in torturing criminals to achieve his goals. He favors good instead of evil, but he have no problems in committing evil acts to achieve his goals. But Neutral characters rarely will be examples of absolute neutrality... They often have a preference for Good or Evil.
So, Lawful Neutral
Alignment:
Lawful Neutral
Kit:
Craftsman, 40th level
Strength: 25
Dexterity: 25
Constitution: 25
Intelligence: 25
Wisdom: 25
Charisma: 25
This is how it is.
Kal-El (Clark Kent)
Kryptonian - Lawful Good
Fighter Lv. 4
STR 25 (25 is reasonable for Fighting Statistics, but not for lifting things. So, Kryptonian's Super Power solves the problem)
DEX 15 (Fast, yes. Flexible and acrobatic? Not so much)
CON 19 (Not relevant healing factor. So, let's keep it lower than 20)
INT 11 (Regular, but a little higher than ordinary)
WIS 12 (Almost naive, but with good sense of righteousness)
CHA 14 (Inspiring persona and empathic, but not enough magnetic presence to lead)
Kryptoninan Special Abilities
-Always under the effect of Fly and Improved Haste spells.
-X-Ray Vision and Superhuman Hearing.
-Super Power: Weight Allowance and Max Press are multiplied by 20. +100% Bend Bars and +20 Open Doors.
-Steelskin: Natural AC is -10. Invulnerable to damage that is less than 20. +90% resistance against any damage.
-Fists count as a +5 magical weapon.
You guys are REALLY generous for str rolls here.
Louis Cyr
18/00 (probably had DUHM as an ability though)
13
18
13
9
14
@elminster John A had to have an 18 cons... unless you're arguing long term drinking damaged his liver down to 16 cons.
Fighter (judo)/Mage (KGB agent, *intelligence* agency that is)
Strength: 22 (wears girdle of fire giant strength, 18/50 original)
Dexterity 18 (wears gauntlets of dexterity, 15 original)
Constitution 16 (he was simply unlucky with this roll)
Intelligence 17 (no complaints, the guy is genius)
Wisdom 13 (he is experienced, but still has a long way to go, maybe he will find those 3 tomes)
Charisma 20 (wears Nymph Cloak, he is evil indeed)
Rasputin!!!
Deceased Fighter/Cleric
Strength: 16
Dexterity: 14
Constitution: 19 (he had 18 and used a tome)
Intelligence: 15 (clever, crafty little man)
Wisdom: 21 (found the tomes, and his divine spells of healing and clairvoyance reached legendary proportions)
Charisma: 20 (wears Algernon's Cloak, charisma at 18, charms anyone he likes with unlimited charges)
"The strength . . . is in keeping with his size," describes Ben East in Bears. "He is a very powerfully built, a heavy skeleton overlaid with thick layers of muscle as strong as rawhide rope. He can hook his long, grizzly-like front claws under a slab of rock that three grown men could not lift, and flip it over almost effortlessly...." "... a brown [bear] ... took a thousand-pound steer a half mile up an almost vertical mountain, much of the way through alder tangles with trunks three or four inches thick."
I think most of the stats here, though appropriate in specific scores, have been far too high on average.
I don't think you can really compare a bear to a human strength-wise. A human could never be as strong as a bear, curse bears are much larger than any human. Their anatomy is different. And besides, Stats, especially 2e, are a strange, oversimplified system created for a game.
Also, people will exaggerate stats, of course. They're posting people they admire greatly.
I think an argument could be made that most stats arent as measureable as strength, but if we use it as a benchmark, an 18 is pretty high. Assuming we are rolling 3d6, not even 500 in 100k will have an in a given stat 18. Thats pretty ridiculously rare, but its probably reasonable. Remember, having even an 18 int isnt very useable unless you have other decent mental stats, same with physical.
Even then, high stats doesnt equal good motivation or ambition. Many people dont really want to take excessive risks in life, even if payouts can be exorbitant; this is one reason poorer and oppressed populations produce more atheletes I'm sure.
For Str, Max is 18/00. A guy with Str 18/00, would look like this:
Yeah, Sarevok is this huge. It's a MONSTER. In AD&D 2E, 19 is Hill Giant. This:
Well, I don't think humans are capable to reach this level of strength in real life.
For Dex, Con and Char, 18 is the maximum as well.
For Int, maximum is 20, for aging effects. For Wisdom, 21 would be the maximum, for the same reason.
It's an image of Hill Giants from Pathfinder. But here is a picture from Hill Giants from Forgotten Realms:
Throwing rocks of this size... It's not something humans do in real life. But, in a world of fantasy, it's possible to imagine that the strongest half-orc of the world could do... Maybe.
"As described in 'The Crystal Shard', Wulfgar is roughly 7 ft 0 in (2.13 m), blond-haired and blue-eyed (common for the barbarian tribes he hails from), and developed his awesomely muscled physique when he was in servitude to the dwarf Bruenor Battlehammer for five years—working alongside dwarves, who are renowned for being tireless. Wulfgar is broad-shouldered and thick-chested with a wiry waist, and his arms have been described as thicker than a fat dwarf's thighs.
Wulfgar has above-average strength for even his barbarian race. For instance, Wulfgar once pulled the prow of an entire ship out of the water, and once lifted a three-hundred-pound man with one arm, and then threw him through the tavern where the bar fight had began. Also, when he challenged King Heafstaag, a mighty barbarian leader in Icewind Dale, Wulfgar literally crushed the King's head like a melon with his bare hands. Wulfgar managed to resist Heaftaag's spine shattering bear hug as he did so. He also used a large, irritable camel as a projectile weapon to defeat a gang of bandits in 'The Halfling's Gem', and escaped a flesh golem, Bok, that was slowly bear-hugging him to death by tearing off its head with his bare hands."
http://shamsgrog.blogspot.com/2008/06/3d6-odds.html
The game plays pretty differnetly of you greatly reduce the availability of magic, ie risks are stupid. If your pc is going to have to sit around recovering after killing a lower level opponent because the enemy rolled a 20, you start thinking differently. Any bonus is likely significant, too. But I like grit, and am weird.
In 3.x, you could theoretically max out at 23 str as a human, if you dump all your attribute boosts to str. That would allow you to carry up to 600lbs as a heavy load, or deadlift about 1200lbs, which is a huge amount. That said, Cyre could apparently pick up a 500lb rock to chest height.
Funny thing about the 'humans as other races' comment from @meagloth, Cyre was built like a very stocky dwarf, but a taller one, being 5'10 and over 300lbs.
*elminster covers ears and eyes and prays to mystra for it to go away*
Rob Ford
Strength 16
Dexterity 7
Constitution 25
Intelligence 7
Wisdom 6
Charisma 15
(I was feeling generous with some of these hehe)
Edit: Since I wrote this it has been revealed that Rob Ford has cancer. Out of solidarity I've increased his constitution to 25. Hopefully he pulls through.
Race: Human (special - no limit to number of times can dual class)
Class/Level: Fighter 3rd/Thief 7th/Illusionist 16th
Alignment: Lawful Good
Str: 18/99 (so he can lift all those bags of presents)
Dex: 16 (climbing up and down chimneys, fine manipulation when making toys)
Con: 18 (keeps going until the job is done)
Int: 13 (tinkerer, toymaker)
Wis: 17 (he is Santa, of course he's wise)
Cha: 18 (great leader, commands loads of elves, gnomes, etc)
He has 3 levels of fighter because I think he is probably over 6ft tall and very well built. He is probably more of a natural brawler than a trained fighter; with his exceptional strength I imagine him to be quite formidable when enraged - although he could easily be bested in physical combat by a seasoned fighter.
Although I've given him 7 levels of thief, I don't think he should be allowed to back-stab as that is just not in his nature. Instead, when he is in a position where other thieves could attempt a back-stab, a hit from him (unarmed, touch attack) forces a save vs. spells at a -4 penalty to avoid falling sleep for 2d6 turns.
His 16 levels of illusionist allow him to perform some pretty amazing feats of magic, although he's not quite up there with the best. But hey, it's Santa!
PS - He's not subject to the normal attribute restrictions for dual classing either.
I also like his version of the Easter Bunny- E. Aster Bunnymund is a pooka (magical faerie rabbit), and the last of his kind. He creates chocolates because he likes to, but he rarely eats them- because chocolate changes Pookas into an engine of destruction. (Seriously, you have to see the picture to believe it!) But he will do it if his friends are in trouble.
And here is Nicolas St. North