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Why cant my figher dual class to Druid?

I was planning on making myself a berserker/druid (Kind weird I know). I got to level 7, since i dont want to wait til 13, and tried to dual class. Druid wasnt an option.

My char page is

STR: 18/64
DEX: 18
CON: 18
INT: 4
WIS: 18
CHA: 8
True neutral human male

wat deed i do rong
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Comments

  • TJ_HookerTJ_Hooker Member Posts: 2,438
    You need 17+ Wisdom and Charisma to dual to a druid.
  • FubbyFubby Member Posts: 189
    I see. Is it possible to get my character to 17 cha without using cheats?

    If not, how would I cheat myself up there
  • FubbyFubby Member Posts: 189
    Nvm, I EE keepered myself to 17 Cha
  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,064
    It's quite an experience to try to roll the stats necessary to dual to a druid while having max numbers in desired stats.

    I think it took me a week of intermittent rolling. I still have the character ready to go as a level 1 pregenerated character so that I never have to try to roll those stats again.
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,853
    @Wowo Ugh, no kidding. I just rolled a 92 point Kensai for Druid dual-classing:
    STR: 15
    DEX: 17
    CON: 17
    INT: 8
    WIS: 18
    CHA: 17

    I only wish it were a 93 point roll so that I could've made Constitution 18. Blargh.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    Quartz said:

    @Wowo Ugh, no kidding. I just rolled a 92 point Kensai for Druid dual-classing:
    STR: 15
    DEX: 17
    CON: 17
    INT: 8
    WIS: 18
    CHA: 17

    I only wish it were a 93 point roll so that I could've made Constitution 18. Blargh.

    Being required to have that 17 charisma is the worst, especially given the ring of human influence in BG2. :D
  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,064
    Quartz said:

    @Wowo Ugh, no kidding. I just rolled a 92 point Kensai for Druid dual-classing:
    STR: 15
    DEX: 17
    CON: 17
    INT: 8
    WIS: 18
    CHA: 17

    I only wish it were a 93 point roll so that I could've made Constitution 18. Blargh.

    I ended up with a 94 but stuck only a 4 in int. Really loved the /84 on strength.
  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,064
    @kamuizin maybe true but what is definitely true is that "ppl should give a bit of respect to" how other people want to play.

    The developers made a choice to allow players to start with 3 in a stat, who are you to say that a player then shouldn't do so?

    What's wrong with having a character as smart as Pikel? He's a druid too so it can't even be suggested that being a druid requires average intelligence.

    I like to have 9 intelligence, it's handy for activating scrolls but beyond that it has 0 impact on my play experience. Role play is totally subjective, nobody plays the game the same and trying to tell someone that they're not playing the game the right way ... well, good luck with that.
  • JarrakulJarrakul Member Posts: 2,029
    Worth noting that you don't really need to roll a 17 Charisma and Wisdom, given that there's a tome of Charisma and three tomes of Wisdom, all easily attainable before 7th level (if you want to dual at 3rd or something, you're gonna have a more difficult time). You can start with a 16 Charisma and as low as a 14 Wisdom if it works better for you (although the later will give you fewer spells down the line). I think my fighter/druid had the following starting stats:

    Strength 18 (don't remember the exceptional strength)
    Dexterity 18
    Constitution 17
    Intelligence 7
    Wisdom 15
    Charisma 16
    91 total (still hard, but a lot easier than 94, and with much better physical stats)
  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,064
    @Jarrakul definitely a reasonable approach though it wasn't an option for me as I really wanted the extra 5th level spell from having 21 wisdom.

    I just don't see how the difference between 3 and 7 intelligence is more important that an extra 5th level spell slot given how much fun those spell slots are.
  • JarrakulJarrakul Member Posts: 2,029
    I dislike being one-shot by mind flayers (although a 5 Int + tome is enough for that). That and rp considerations, but if those don't bother you more power to you. I actually meant to reference the 92 roll above, not your 94, and I just misread a bit. I apologize if it sounded like I was trying to single you out for any reason.

    Honestly, I'm just trying to point out how to make the hardest dual-class in the game easier to roll. What you choose to do after you've got the minimums covered is entirely up to you.
  • CheesebellyCheesebelly Member Posts: 1,727
    kamuizin said:

    ppl should give a bit of respect to roleplay, to roll a character with int 4 is to have an Pikel Bouldershoulder in the party (although the dwaren of drizzt's novels probally would be more inteligent).

    An fleebemind makes your character to have an inteligence 3... and that's an magic effect. Inteligence 4 is something like:

    - duhh, hahaha, i poo i poo! It's yummy! and waaaarrm!

    I never play anything below 9 in any of the stats, the only exception is my current run with an barbarian, where i pruposely make charisma 7 with an evil party to see the bad mod NPCs will deal with the party, so far it's interesting.

    You should min-max your stats, this way you can nomm nomm poo poo, smash hard with biggie club and happy with bears and berries... which are also nomm nomm.
  • AshielAshiel Member Posts: 254
    Given that the mental ability scores have never meant much to begin with other than whatever you want to attribute to them (in 3E for example, 3 Int means you can speak a language clearly, understand moral quandary, and function in society - assuming that your other statistics aren't equally as bad). Through the laws of probability and 3d6, you're pretty likely to meet someone with a 3 in a statistic, and roughly 1/256 people will have a 3 in any stat specifically. Assuming the standard 3d6 method used for normal people in D&D, more than 20% of the population is going to have a 3 or 18 somewhere in their statistics.

    To say that 3 Int means that you eat poo is to suggest that a 3 Str means you're unable to move yourself around, or that a 3 Dex means that you are unable to turn doorknobs, and so forth. When it comes right down to it, mental ability scores are the most mutable scores, capable of being explained in countless ways. From the 2E PHB:

    "However, the true capabilities of a mind lie not in numbers--I.Q., Intelligence score, or whatever. Many intelligent, even brilliant, people in the real world fail to apply their minds creatively and usefully, thus falling far below their own potential. Don't rely too heavily on your character's Intelligence score; you must provide your character with the creativity and energy he supposedly possesses!"

    The feeblemind spell does more than just lower your Intelligence as well. 3 Int is perfectly capable of functioning (hell, assuming other statistics are higher elsewhere you might make for a very capable and very successful adventurer). Feeblemind prevents spellcasting and imposes further limitations on a character beyond what is normally there for a lower than average Intelligence.
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,704
    edited June 2013
    @Wowo, what you say is pure rhetoric, to say an opposite phrase to counter an argument even when both have not the same weight.

    From what i know, i never forbidden the guy to roll a 4 int character, i just manifest an disagree with this kind of pratice, of dump status for power play others. So i fail to see and you failed in explain how i disrespect his right to play as he want. Unless you're saying that i have no right to speak aloud my opinion, is that right? Do i have permission from other people now to say that i dislike a powerplay pratice?

    Pass from this point, an inteligence 4 character would have to be carried by another NPC, Baldur's Gate is a game of plot and dealings with other NPCs and that can be pretty impossible with 4 int "in my opinion and common sense". The fact you're allowed by the engine to make something doesn't legit it as normal. You can travel on the map for 100 years and Sarevok will sill be waiting to be stopped, every NPC will still be waiting to be picked up, NPCs will still be waiting to give you their quests.

    Ps: I doubt he behave as an person with 4 int inside the game, one of the functions of the engine is also to focus in replace the role of Dungeon Master. In the table of an PnP game he would be severely punished in terms of XP and rewards by outside his character nature and limits, but as i said, the engine can't cover the same possibilities that an Dungeon Master can.

    @Ashiel, so people with 3 in stats are normal and common in existence? Good luck thinking this way if that pleases you dude.
  • IkMarcIkMarc Member Posts: 552
    Why don't you guys just min dexterity or strength and use gauntlets to put it to 18?
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    You need a strength of 15 to multi-class out of fighter.
  • IkMarcIkMarc Member Posts: 552
    Fardragon said:

    You need a strength of 15 to multi-class out of fighter.

    So min dexterity?
  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,064
    @kamuizin

    Having a 3 in a stat is as common as having an 18. From a pure RP perspective you should play as many 3's as what you do 18's.

    Point is that both 3's and 18's are outside of the ordinary and I find it quite ironic that players refuse to have below 8 (or whatever their own personal code dictates) but regularly have multiple 18's (the likelihood of which occurring is rather remote).

    You clearly did impress your style of play on everyone else. You clearly tell everyone to respect role play and not roll characters with a 4 in a stat. This isn't expressing an opinion, this is giving a direction on how someone else should play the game which is very clearly wrong.
  • ThrasymachusThrasymachus Member Posts: 903
    Wowo said:


    Having a 3 in a stat is as common as having an 18. From a pure RP perspective you should play as many 3's as what you do 18's.

    Presumably adventurers are above average, though, and thus will tend to have higher ability scores than prosaic peasants and ploughmen. The dice rolling systems for ability scores in AD&D tend to promote this (e.g., roll 4d6 six times, take the highest three, arrange as desired).

    Add into consideration the fact that the PC is the child of a god, and I have no problem from a RP perspective justifying a couple of 18s and no 3s.

    That said, having fun is the important thing, and if one enjoys playing a PC with 3 INT, no worries.
  • ThrasymachusThrasymachus Member Posts: 903
    Personally, I can never bring myself to play a PC with below average Intelligence or Charisma. I can't imagine why the NPCs would follow anyone who was not clearly a leader. But YMMV, of course.
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,704
    3 and 18 isn't in the same ratio, just to you know. For a rule table view pont the bonus/penalities can be pretty the same, but a base for common status are normally over 9.

    SRD and D20 compare inteligence 3 to humanlike creatures

    http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Intelligence and http://www.d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm

    Even goblins, aka stupid normally are know to have an base intelligence score of 10.

    About specific the Bhaalspawn saga, normally ordinary characters with low atributes does not reach so far as epic levels as we do in Baldur's Gate 2 ToB. You normally do not get an character with 9 in all atributes to reach level 20 or more (he normally die or retire from adventure before that).

    So in baldur's Gate, is pretty coherent that the son of a god to have nice atributes (Sarevok send an hello by the way), while if we have an short kind adventure from level 1 to 6 or 7, that would be pretty reasonbable to work with less potential characters.

    But then, you will understand as you want what i said dude, and that i can't change. I only ask if the guy from the OP, after read my post get an invisible force that now compels him to not play with anything below 6 or 7 in any atribute, cos if that did not happen i didn't force my opinion and i used my right to argue and state as i have right, thank you very much.
  • ThrasymachusThrasymachus Member Posts: 903
    I just remembered that having high WIS, INT, and CHA scores open up additional dialogue options in some places in BG. CHA helps with merchants. And (iirc) a high WIS helps with the options available in the 'Wish' spell (BG2).

    So, aside from class requirements, there are some benefits to high WIS, INT, and CHA.
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    Lets put this way......if the game enforced stat based roleplaying, your character would be the equivalent of a mentally retarded 5 year old...who could just hits thing really hard and needed his party mates to make all the decisions, and clean up after them when they went arms flailing off at whatever the group pointed them at. An average troll is barely above an animal and still has 6-7 int on average. 3 is barely more intelligent then an average animal (which are 2, barring extremely intelligent animals such as monkeys or dolphins which have 3).


    I still think BG should've put minimum stat requirements for conversation, ala Torment. So if you didn't have the required stats on whoever initiated the conversation, you wouldn't have those options (unless of course it's related to knowledge you're trained because of your class but otherwise would need to be knowledge or wise enough to think up).
  • JarrakulJarrakul Member Posts: 2,029
    I generally assume the PC's abnormally good stats are the result of being half-god. Even if that doesn't actually bestow higher stats, Bhaal is probably going to choose only the more extraordinary mothers for his children. I mean, Imoen and Seravok have to get their amazing statlines from somewhere.

    As for the 1/256 thing, I am going to point out that a 1/256 chance is almost three standard deviations below the mean, or in other words, an IQ in the upper 50s. For reference, 50 is average for someone suffering from down syndrome (except that down syndrome sufferers are probably actually smarter than that on average, because the IQ tests don't take into account accompanying physical disabilities that could interfere with IQ test performance). Now, that's not cripplingly non-functional, but it's gonna be a serious disadvantage and people are gonna notice. All differences in actual ability aside, you'll be patronized and looked down on, and you certainly aren't about to be recognized as a leader.

    That said, not everyone cares about rp considerations, and that's totally fine. But if you do care about such things, a 3 intelligence is going to dramatically change how you play.
  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,064
    If my 4 int berserker could be equated with a person with Down's Syndrome who has tantrums then I think that's actually pretty cool.

    It also has to be remembered that with 18 wisdom and 17 charisma that he's still got exceptional people skills and has the intuition to know who to trust - and who's advice to listen to - and enough charisma to illicit that advice from worthwhile sources.

    Easy to take it further. No wonder Imoen chases you out of Candlekeep despite your objections - she knows you can't look after yourself! She even calls you all duffleheaded. Kind of telling, don't you think?

    Flaws are what make role playing interesting. I know I'm a flawed person but I accept them and flaws in a character while role playing is a great experience. I just don't think BG counts as role playing regardless of what arbitrary character creation rules you impose on yourself.

    @Kamuizin if your defence to telling people how to play the game is that you didn't really mean to tell people how to play the game then fair enough, I'd just suggest to take more care about the language that you use when posting on the internets.
  • JarrakulJarrakul Member Posts: 2,029
    Now, see, all those are great rp reasons to play a character with a 4 int. It's not the character everyone wants to play, but it works, and it works well. So if that's what you want to play, awesome. If it's not, and you just don't care about rp considerations (which, as you point out, is very reasonable in a single-player game), then drop int as much as you care to. Although I bet you'd be happier springing for the 5 int, just 'cause of mind flayers. :P
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,704
    As you my friend @Wowo, cos by complain about my posture you repeat and exercite the same behavior you point me guilt for, but message taken, let's not dwell in this petty discussion more than we need for, plenty of other issues to discuss here anyway.

    In my opinion, an bhaal spawn with down syndrome would not reach the end of the adventure, freedom to play the way you want comes with duties, as die or fail the way you maybe don't want. But then as i said, it's my opinion.

  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,064
    @kamuizin expressing an opinion is great, just don't tell other people how to play the game (which is what I criticised you for and haven't repeated myself despite your petty accusations).
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,653
    @kamuizin, I'm enjoying reading your posts and opinions, as well as those of the people who disagree with you. I see a rather entertaining back-and-forth debate about stats going on. I'm a roleplayer more than a powergamer, so I also have trouble giving any of my toons below 10 in any stat.

    Just out of curiosity, may I ask if English is a second language for you? If so, you speak and write it very well, and I'm getting your ideas clearly (I think), and you seem like an extremely intelligent person, but there are some grammatical and stylistic errors in your writing that might be because you are writing in a foreign language. (The "errors" are things like singulars and plurals not agreeing, not-quite-right verb tenses, some word order issues, and advanced stylistic things like sentence structure and flow, and idiomatic useage.)
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