Pure cleric vs multi

Sindyan

I am debating between a pure cleric and a multi cleric (dwarf). I'm thinking long term including bg2/tob. I will always have six members in my party. I know the pure cleric will benefit for fasting level and the multi fighter/cleric will be better Melee combat. I do not want my character to dual world (looks reason).

With having six member party will I be able to hit the cap as a multi f/c or would the pure cleric be able to get a much higher level (for symbol at 25 and max turning)?

Thanks!

mjs

i'm of the opinion that there's not much difference between a priest of lathander kit and an f/c, so personally i'd go for the PoL kit. fast levelling, awesome turning, quicker access to righteous magic, great kit bonuses...

ZanathKariashi

F/C is better. Especially on a dwarf. Stupidly powerful saves, and natural bonus attacks, as well as earning fighter HLA are fare more powerful then anything a pure cleric gets. Turning is pointless as in BG the requirements are low, and in BG2 the mace of disruption will one-shot all undead anyway.


IT allows you to save your spells slots for bigger and better things.

Wanderon

Depends on your character concept I think - pure cleric is the priest who makes a great warrior when called upon - F/C is the warrior priest.

Either choice is going to play out fine gameplay wise so go with what feels right for the character you envision.

kamuizin

Will you take an kit class (Talos, Helm or Lathander)? If not make the character human and at least 3 levels in fight, you loose nothing this way and unlock grand master possibility to that cleric. If you want the kit, then go pure.

Tinter

In terms of power, F/C is better. It loses little in BG1 and gains much better fighting power. In BG2, it has a brief period where it is not so good at spell casting (but a much better fighter), but by mid-BG2 it gets level 7 spells and is nearly as good a cleric as a pure cleric- you lose a few extra spell slots, turning (which can be admitedly be a lot of fun but only in a few situations) and the symbol (which does not compare to fighter hit points/ HLAs/ THAC0/ attacks/ specialisation).

However, the cleric kits are fun and with a party either will do just fine; think about who else you will be taking, how they will fit in, and what you will enjoy playing.

elminster

You should be able to get the symbol as a F/C, but you basically won't get it until the end of ToB. It is the highest level you can achieve as a cleric with this particular multiclass and you'll have to go through Watcher's Keep to get it (that or use exploits).

kamuizin

Thac0 progression end at 0, clerics are know for being able to cast nice buffs, so if you don't mind play human and open hand of get an kit, go for dual class. Anomen is a good example of how strong a cleric can be with a few levels in fighter.

Sindyan

Wanderon said:

Depends on your character concept I think - pure cleric is the priest who makes a great warrior when called upon - F/C is the warrior priest.

Either choice is going to play out fine gameplay wise so go with what feels right for the character you envision.

That is the greatest way to explain the difference between pure be f/c in role playing terms. Thank

Sindyan

Would going 19 con be good for a pure cleric dwarf? Is the regen that helpful or keep at 18 for max shorty bonus.

elminster

Sindyan said:

Would going 19 con be good for a pure cleric dwarf? Is the regen that helpful or keep at 18 for max shorty bonus.

Regeneration is really not worth it. You could however start out with 19 to give yourself 20 constitution. You could then put on the Claw of Kazgaroth without it really impacting your character's health.

Isair

I recently played a Dwarven Fighter/Cleric through the complete saga, fantastic multiclass. As above it really depends on personal preference - Multi is more of a frontline tank where-as single class fills a more party buffing/healing role.

I typically have 1.5 Arcane & 1.5 Divine casters in the party so both roles are spoken for. Going by how much I enjoyed my recent playthrough I'd suggest the Dwarven multi, shorty saves can be greatly enhanced through certain items: BG1 - rings/necklaces of protection, Cloak of Displacement, Helm of Balduran. BG 2 - rings/necklaces of protection, Ring of Gaxx, Human Flesh armor, Amulet of Seldarine.

I'd have to check but at the end of TOB my PC's equipment was: Human Flesh, Amulet of Seldarine, Ring of Gaxx, FOA + Flail of Easthaven, Roranach's Horn, Cloak of Displacement, Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialization. Couple that with righteous magic, DUHM, armor of faith, imp haste, hardness & critical strike & you've got yourself a stew going.

ZanathKariashi

The regen is more of a perk then a game-changer...you can pretty much ignore healing that character, except during long complexes without rest....almost every map transition takes several hours and will fully or mostly heal all your HP, as will most rest attempts. Basically, it just saves you on consumables, but if played correctly, you really shouldn't be taking much, if any, damage anyway.

Schneidend

Cleric is the way to go. You know, unless you're soft. I mean, it's okay if you can't beat the game without multi-classing or dual-classing. Just like it's okay being a total weakling. Nobody's going to judge you.

Except ME.

IkMarc

If you are looking for powergaming then Ranger/Cleric is the answer you are looking for.

zur312

Isair said:

I recently played a Dwarven Fighter/Cleric through the complete saga, fantastic multiclass. As above it really depends on personal preference - Multi is more of a frontline tank where-as single class fills a more party buffing/healing role.

I typically have 1.5 Arcane & 1.5 Divine casters in the party so both roles are spoken for. Going by how much I enjoyed my recent playthrough I'd suggest the Dwarven multi, shorty saves can be greatly enhanced through certain items: BG1 - rings/necklaces of protection, Cloak of Displacement, Helm of Balduran. BG 2 - rings/necklaces of protection, Ring of Gaxx, Human Flesh armor, Amulet of Seldarine.

I'd have to check but at the end of TOB my PC's equipment was: Human Flesh, Amulet of Seldarine, Ring of Gaxx, FOA + Flail of Easthaven, Roranach's Horn, Cloak of Displacement, Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialization. Couple that with righteous magic, DUHM, armor of faith, imp haste, hardness & critical strike & you've got yourself a stew going.

how much exp points/char at the end of tob?

for thread i think f/c or r/c is much better because of fighting like fighter and buffs from cleric
you hit HLA in both examples at the same time so 2HLA of f/c >1HLA cleric
f/c can achive 85% damage reduction while cleric only 45% i think
you don't really need that much levels for spells he is not a mage

i would say priest of lathander is close to f/c because boon of lathander actually gives apr
i don't like helm his sword disables spell casting

SionIV

IkMarc said:

If you are looking for powergaming then Ranger/Cleric is the answer you are looking for.

Ranger/cleric is without doubt the best cleric out there. It's more powerful than a F/C and one if not the most effective class combination in the game. It let's you have both cleric and druid spells, all of them.

You get insect plague/swarm to shut down casters. You can summon fire elementals which are amazing at low level. You get Iron skin as a level 5 spells which is like Stoneskin, a truly great spell. You also get a racial enemy on the ranger side, put dragon or mindflayer there to make a hard fight much easier.

The difference between a fighter and a ranger is very small when it comes to it. If you add the cleric buffs there really isn't any difference that you will notice.

ZanathKariashi

And is a blatant mechanical exploit, that should've been corrected YEARS ago.

IkMarc

ZanathKariashi said:

And is a wonderful opportunity, that could've been nerfed YEARS ago.

Fixed

SionIV

ZanathKariashi said:

And is a blatant mechanical exploit, that should've been corrected YEARS ago.

Just like

Project Image
Mislead
Protection from Undead
Protection from Magic
Protection from Evil
Flail of Ages +5
Polymorph self
Use any item (Kensai)
Throwing axes
Improved haste
Timestop
Shapeshift : Mind flay
Cloudkill, Deathcloud.
Pickpocketing and selling to black market vendor (Can earn 100 000+ first time you visit waukeen)
Sanctuary
Traps (All of them)
Carsomyr (Use any item)

And many more.

As you can see there are many things out there, and some of them much more broken than C/R. It doesn't break the game and if it's somethng you don't like then you don't have to use it.

Schneidend

@SionIV
What about protection from evil & magic, the Flail of Ages +5, Polymorph Self, throwing axes, and improved haste make them mechanically exploitable?

elminster

SionIV said:

ZanathKariashi said:

And is a blatant mechanical exploit, that should've been corrected YEARS ago.

Pickpocketing and selling to black market vendor (Can earn 100 000+ first time you visit waukeen)

Yea but this is great for those of us who play evil characters around 5-6 rep. We pay a lot more in stores, but we can at least use this to buy a greater number of items than we otherwise could (when we aren't stealing them )

SionIV

Schneidend said:

@SionIV
What about protection from evil & magic, the Flail of Ages +5, Polymorph Self, throwing axes, and improved haste make them mechanically exploitable?

Protection from Evil makes it so that most demons can't attack you, making alot of hard fights trivial. Protection from magic makes Kangaxx and every single magic user / lich in the game a trivial fight.

Flail of Ages isn't so much a mechanical flaw as it's more a miss on their part. Slow and elemental damage goes through just about every protection a magic user can have. It's also the reason it's the best weapon in the game.

Polymorph Self because of the Sword Spider form and it's poison. It wasn't something that i feel they should have nerfed (BGEE) but it was incredible powerful. In the original game it makes a level 8 mage much better in close combat than a 8 fighter.

Throwing axes can be used by kensai, who can't use ranged weapons.

Improved haste isn't that good in PnP and had many flaws. In the game it's so good now that in BGEE you take it over offensive spin.

FoA +5 and Improved haste aren't a 'Mechanically exploit' . But they are much more game breaking than most mechanical exploits including the one with C/R.

zur312

SionIV said:

Schneidend said:

Flail of Ages isn't so much a mechanical flaw as it's more a miss on their part. Slow and elemental damage goes through just about every protection a magic user can have. It's also the reason it's the best weapon in the game.

not vs PFMW

but i agree with everything