All Mage party - 6th slot?

Wowo

So I'm starting a new party and can't decide on the 6th slot. The requirement for the party is to be all or part wizard.

The party so far:
Charname (Dragon Disciple)
Imoen (dualed to Mage at 6th)
Edwin
Neera
Baeloth

So far everyone can be in an archmagi robe. A good or evil 6th party member would be restricted to elven chain. A neutral party member could get an archmagi robe from the ghost of ulcaster.

The 6th slot could be:
Dynaheir (dualed to cleric at Mage 6 with 2 wisdom tomes)
Xzar (dualed as D but with 1 tome)
Safana (int tome, could replace Imoen to free up robe for D)
Xan
Quayle

So, what do you think? Or should I just go with 5 for more XP?

mjs

keep safana as your party thief while dualing imoen, but aim for quayle...quayle is awesome

Quartz

Quayle for sure.

Also, you can get a second Neutral Archmagi Robe by killing Shandalar.

Wowo

Quartz said:

Quayle for sure.

Also, you can get a second Neutral Archmagi Robe by killing Shandalar.

4 neutral Archmagi robes available:
High hedge robe: Neera
Shandalar's: charname
Ghost of Ulcaster: spare
Elf on werewolf island: spare

Wowo

I'm actually having a ball with this group so far. I visited the Basilisks before recruiting anyone so have the benefit of spell selection and HP.

Current group:
Charname Dragon Disciple 5
Imoen thief 6/Mage 2
Baeloth 6
Edwin 6
Dynaheir 6
Xan 6

So far most fights are ending in a hail of magic missiles.

Tinter

Quayle is the clear choice in powergaming terms.

Awong124

You can actually kill Dradeel on Werewolf Island twice and get two Robes of the Neutral Archmagi from him.

ZanathKariashi

Sorcerers aren't mages though........they're sorcerers.

Fubby

Probably just meant all Arcane Casters

Wowo

Fubby said:

Probably just meant all Arcane Casters

Something like that. I purposefully avoided bards though, they're more a rogue class.

Wowo

So how cool is Melfs Minute Meteors? 4 characters spamming this is pretty obscene. Does anyone know if the +2 damage from Legacy of the Masters works with it?

I wonder if the +4 damage from Skald song would work with it ... hmm, that's getting pretty crazy (6 attacks/round gives +24 damage/round from skald song ...).

Wowo

Hmm, so I was testing got a 5 damage with MMM which is less than what could be done if the gloves were working (1d4+3+2= 6 min).

Oh well, it's pretty fun anyway. Pretty funny to see things implode in a hail of magic missile or MMM fire.

ZanathKariashi

Then you need to get rid of imeon and all the dual-class, since they're not pure mages...otherwise a bard is perfectly acceptable.

Wowo

ZanathKariashi said:

Then you need to get rid of imeon and all the dual-class, since they're not pure mages...otherwise a bard is perfectly acceptable.

Are you being serious? The title of the thread isn't "all pure mage party according to @ZanathKariashi's directions".

By your logic I should only take pure mages rather than these pretend specialists.

amftron

Wowo said:

ZanathKariashi said:

Then you need to get rid of imeon and all the dual-class, since they're not pure mages...otherwise a bard is perfectly acceptable.

Are you being serious? The title of the thread isn't "all pure mage party according to @ZanathKariashi's directions".

By your logic I should only take pure mages rather than these pretend specialists.

But by your own logic you are omitting bards because you consider them too much of a rogue class, yet contradict that by proposing two dual class thief/mages and claim they are acceptable.

There are of course no "rules" to abide by, i think Zanath was merely pointing out that you were contradicting yourself.

Wowo

@amftron not just my own logic, in 3e bards and rogues are in the same category of class while sorcerers and mages are in a different category. Is this is the case in 2e as well?

Including a multiclass and a dual class is simply to cover party roles while staying as close to the theme as possible.

The theme that I settled on was:
single, dual or multiclass mages or sorcerers.

I'm sorry I didn't make that more clear in the OP

The eventual team that I settled on came about from a number of different considerations:
2 sorcerers to cut down on the number of required scrolls (though this worry was largely unfounded I think)
3 mages who can hit level 9 with a total of 6 slots as I feel I've never really used 5th level mage spells as they seem lackluster but maybe I need to give them a go
1 thief dual with 100 in detect traps for durlags tower
1 cleric multi as a healer

As it happens I feel a little dirty having a short bow and short sword equipped on Imoen, I might give those up at some point and swap her doll around, 6 wizard dolls in archmagi robes might be a good look

Wanderon

Attempting a run through with no bards is no issue - attempting one with no thief for traps is a royal pain in the patootie - not to mention that making a run without Imoen is like cake with no ice cream. OPs strategy makes perfect sense to me.

ZanathKariashi

Except with that many mages, you don't need a lock/trap remover or healer. A solo mage can easily by-pass and defeat everything, so a party of 6 is a joke since you don't even have to rest as often.

If there weren't enough mages available (I.E. BG2), I could agree, sure, dual-someone, but there are, and not only that, their specializations are spread out enough to cover all possible situations, and will actually end up more powerful then the dual-class due to more spell slots. Seems a waste of time honestly if you aren't actually doing a pure mage party, since it's actually no different then taking a balanced party along if you DC to cover weaknesses that don't exist already.

5th level includes Animate Dead, which was given a MASSIVE boost for BG:EE, now that it summons a level scaled skeleton warrior instead of a bunch of crappy 1 hd skeletons, as well as cloud kill, which in BG1 is pretty much instant death vs everything but a handful of named opponents.

Nifft

I was going to come in and suggest Bard, perhaps CHARNAME so he could pull duty as an early game tank.

CHARNAME could also be a gnome Fighter/Illusionist or elf Fighter/Mage, and get some early-game tanking in that way... or a human Fighter->Mage, with as many dots as possible in Darts because HA HA SAREVOK I AM KILLING YOU WITH DARTS.

*ahem*

Anyway, IMHO Bards are fun.

Quartz

@Wanderon

Wanderon said:

not to mention that making a run without Imoen is like cake with no ice cream.

Playing the game without a last-minute addition NPC who throws off game balance and offers fewer banters than any other NPC is like cake with no ice cream?

Huh.

Ashiel

Quartz said:

@Wanderon

Wanderon said:

not to mention that making a run without Imoen is like cake with no ice cream.

Playing the game without a last-minute addition NPC who throws off game balance and offers fewer banters than any other NPC is like cake with no ice cream?

Huh.

Pretty much. I never do a run without Imoen. She's just Imoen. I can't help but not want her around. The fact you can dual-class her to mage makes her also pretty cool. There's tons of better rogues in the game than Imoen but she actually makes a good character somewhere around rogue 6+/Mage X (when you dual her often depends on what version you're playing and with what XP cap).

EDIT: Curiously, what makes her unbalance the game? I've never heard such an accusation before.

Wowo

ZanathKariashi said:

Except with that many mages, you don't need a lock/trap remover or healer. A solo mage can easily by-pass and defeat everything, so a party of 6 is a joke since you don't even have to rest as often.

If there weren't enough mages available (I.E. BG2), I could agree, sure, dual-someone, but there are, and not only that, their specializations are spread out enough to cover all possible situations, and will actually end up more powerful then the dual-class due to more spell slots. Seems a waste of time honestly if you aren't actually doing a pure mage party, since it's actually no different then taking a balanced party along if you DC to cover weaknesses that don't exist already.

5th level includes Animate Dead, which was given a MASSIVE boost for BG:EE, now that it summons a level scaled skeleton warrior instead of a bunch of crappy 1 hd skeletons, as well as cloud kill, which in BG1 is pretty much instant death vs everything but a handful of named opponents.

Where is there a scroll of animate dead?

Wanderon

Quartz said:

@Wanderon

Wanderon said:

not to mention that making a run without Imoen is like cake with no ice cream.

Playing the game without a last-minute addition NPC who throws off game balance and offers fewer banters than any other NPC is like cake with no ice cream?

Huh.

Judging by the number of people who insist on bringing her along I guess they did a pretty good job with their last minute addition...

As for game balance - this is D&D in a CRPG - what balance?

Wowo

Haha, Demon Knight died to 3 hasted phase spiders summoned by Edwin.