Please redo the changes you made to the blade.
SionIV
Member Posts: 2,689
Please redo the change with offensive spin, it wasn't needed and only made the blade fall behind every other fighter including the swashbuckler in BG2.
The problem isn't that you can't have haste, the problem is that you can't have IMPROVED haste. Improved haste doubles your APR and losing out on that is a huge loss.
Let me show you.
BG2 Blade
1 APR (Normal)
2 APR (Dual wield)
3 APR (Belm)
4 APR (Offensive spin)
8 APR ( Improved Haste)
BGEE Blade
1 APR (Normal)
2 APR (Dual wield)
3 APR (Belm)
4 APR (Offensive spin)
Now let's look at the Fighter
BG2 Fighter
1 APR (Normal)
2 APR (Dual wield)
3 APR (Belm)
4 APR (Level 13)
8 APR (Improved Haste)
BGEE Fighter
1 APR (Normal)
2 APR (Dual wield)
3 APR (Belm)
4 APR (Level 13)
8 APR (Improved Haste)
Now you'll probably say :
"But offensive spin also gives other things, including the amazing maximum damage!"
Yes it does. But that fighter is going to be able to use whirlwind for 10 APR or critical strike. And Critical strike is better than offensive spin when it comes to damage.
Now let's look at the swashbuckler.
BGEE
1 APR (Normal)
2 APR (Dual wield)
3 APR (Belm)
6 APR (Improved haste)
BG2
1 APR (Normal)
2 APR (Dual wield)
3 APR (Belm)
6 APR (Improved haste)
In the original game he has less APR than the blade. But he has his + damage and Thaco to even it out.
Level 40 swashbuckler has : +8 damage, +8 Thac0 and +9 armor. And he can specialize in a weapon. This evens it out in BG2 end game, and the swashbuckler is still in a great place.
But once you look at BGEE you'll see
Fighter : 8 APR + Critical strike / 10 APR
Blade : 4 APR + Maximum damage / 6 APR (Improved haste instead of Offensive spin)
Swashbuckler : 6 APR + 8 Damage + 8 Thac0 + 9 armor.
We could also add the ranger and paladin to the table but it would still show the same. The blade is by far the worst of the 5 classes when it comes to melee.
Another problem is that as a blade you should be using FoA, and most of the damage from FoA comes from elemental damage. Your offensive spin does nothing to help out elemental damage on this weapon. So you'll always pick improved haste over offensive spin.
I see a problem when you don't use the main ability of a class, and instead use something else. Why would i pick a blade, Improved haste is better than Offensive spin for me and i have to pick between them?
------------------------------------------------
There are two ways to fix this.
1.) Make Offensive spin better to keep up with end game.
This is a problematic solution. You can't (Or it will be very hard) to change offensive spin like that, without making it way too powerful early game.
2.) Change it back so that we can have both improved haste and offensive spin at once. This won't make a difference early game, and late game everyone else also have acces to Improved haste and can fight just as good if not better than the blade.
--------------------------------------------------
Fighter mage Vs Blade.
Blade :
Pickpocket
Amazing lore
Quicker to level up
UAI (Use Any item)
Higher level spells
Traps
Spins
Fighter Mage :
More spells
Level 7-9 spells
More health
Whirlwind
Critical Strike
As you see if you pick the blade you trade some spell power, and get some nifty abilities to help your party. The one thing they have in common is amazing melee. But if this BGEE change will move over to BG2 they lose out on that. Then the F/M has better magic and ALOT better melee.
Then you have to pick :
Blade - Nice abilities that help your party.
F/M - Better spell power AND much better fighting power.
Unless you're focusing on roleplaying, there is absolutely no reason to pick a blade.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Now to look at the blade using different weapons. I have quoted this from an older post i made.
The Maximum damage part from the spin is purely on the weapon.
STR 25 using Celestial fury :
+14 Damage (STR)
+3 Damage (Celestial fury)
1-10 damage (Katana)
So you would be dealing 1-10 + 17 damage. Now spin would make that 10 + 17 damage.
But if you use FoA it would be something like this :
+14 Damage (STR)
+6 Damage (FoA +5)
+10 Damage (Elemental FoA+5)
1-6 damage (Flail)
As you can see here you'll be dealing 1-6 + 30 damage.
Now the fact that FoA +5 is the best single handed weapon in the game, and i would use it over a katana even with offensive spin. Improved haste would always be the better choise.
Improved haste FoA +5 = 6 APR with 1-6 + 30 damage.
Offensive spin FoA +5 = 4 APR with 6 + 30 damage (+2 damage from spin)
Is it worth sacrifising 2 APR for that?
--------------------------------------------------------------
I'm sorry for the long post. But i hope by this post that i can show you that there is a very big problem with the blade. It's not showing so much in BGEE but once/if you end up making BGEE2 then it's going to be very clear.
And you can't change it just for BGEE unless you somehow write that in the class description.
It might have been a fault in the original BG2 that the blade could also use haste. But then that was one fantastic fault as it kept the Blade perfectly balanced along with the rest of the classes.
Alot of people back in the days always complained that the F/M was much better than the blade. Most of the time these people didn't have the experience or information so they didn't know that it isn't that big of a gap. But after this change i can't help but agree, the F/M is much better than the Blade.
I can defend 8APR + maximum damage vs 8 APR + critical strike.
But i can't defend 4 APR + maximum damage vs 8 APR + critical strike.
The problem isn't that you can't have haste, the problem is that you can't have IMPROVED haste. Improved haste doubles your APR and losing out on that is a huge loss.
Let me show you.
BG2 Blade
1 APR (Normal)
2 APR (Dual wield)
3 APR (Belm)
4 APR (Offensive spin)
8 APR ( Improved Haste)
BGEE Blade
1 APR (Normal)
2 APR (Dual wield)
3 APR (Belm)
4 APR (Offensive spin)
Now let's look at the Fighter
BG2 Fighter
1 APR (Normal)
2 APR (Dual wield)
3 APR (Belm)
4 APR (Level 13)
8 APR (Improved Haste)
BGEE Fighter
1 APR (Normal)
2 APR (Dual wield)
3 APR (Belm)
4 APR (Level 13)
8 APR (Improved Haste)
Now you'll probably say :
"But offensive spin also gives other things, including the amazing maximum damage!"
Yes it does. But that fighter is going to be able to use whirlwind for 10 APR or critical strike. And Critical strike is better than offensive spin when it comes to damage.
Now let's look at the swashbuckler.
BGEE
1 APR (Normal)
2 APR (Dual wield)
3 APR (Belm)
6 APR (Improved haste)
BG2
1 APR (Normal)
2 APR (Dual wield)
3 APR (Belm)
6 APR (Improved haste)
In the original game he has less APR than the blade. But he has his + damage and Thaco to even it out.
Level 40 swashbuckler has : +8 damage, +8 Thac0 and +9 armor. And he can specialize in a weapon. This evens it out in BG2 end game, and the swashbuckler is still in a great place.
But once you look at BGEE you'll see
Fighter : 8 APR + Critical strike / 10 APR
Blade : 4 APR + Maximum damage / 6 APR (Improved haste instead of Offensive spin)
Swashbuckler : 6 APR + 8 Damage + 8 Thac0 + 9 armor.
We could also add the ranger and paladin to the table but it would still show the same. The blade is by far the worst of the 5 classes when it comes to melee.
Another problem is that as a blade you should be using FoA, and most of the damage from FoA comes from elemental damage. Your offensive spin does nothing to help out elemental damage on this weapon. So you'll always pick improved haste over offensive spin.
I see a problem when you don't use the main ability of a class, and instead use something else. Why would i pick a blade, Improved haste is better than Offensive spin for me and i have to pick between them?
------------------------------------------------
There are two ways to fix this.
1.) Make Offensive spin better to keep up with end game.
This is a problematic solution. You can't (Or it will be very hard) to change offensive spin like that, without making it way too powerful early game.
2.) Change it back so that we can have both improved haste and offensive spin at once. This won't make a difference early game, and late game everyone else also have acces to Improved haste and can fight just as good if not better than the blade.
--------------------------------------------------
Fighter mage Vs Blade.
Blade :
Pickpocket
Amazing lore
Quicker to level up
UAI (Use Any item)
Higher level spells
Traps
Spins
Fighter Mage :
More spells
Level 7-9 spells
More health
Whirlwind
Critical Strike
As you see if you pick the blade you trade some spell power, and get some nifty abilities to help your party. The one thing they have in common is amazing melee. But if this BGEE change will move over to BG2 they lose out on that. Then the F/M has better magic and ALOT better melee.
Then you have to pick :
Blade - Nice abilities that help your party.
F/M - Better spell power AND much better fighting power.
Unless you're focusing on roleplaying, there is absolutely no reason to pick a blade.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Now to look at the blade using different weapons. I have quoted this from an older post i made.
The Maximum damage part from the spin is purely on the weapon.
STR 25 using Celestial fury :
+14 Damage (STR)
+3 Damage (Celestial fury)
1-10 damage (Katana)
So you would be dealing 1-10 + 17 damage. Now spin would make that 10 + 17 damage.
But if you use FoA it would be something like this :
+14 Damage (STR)
+6 Damage (FoA +5)
+10 Damage (Elemental FoA+5)
1-6 damage (Flail)
As you can see here you'll be dealing 1-6 + 30 damage.
Now the fact that FoA +5 is the best single handed weapon in the game, and i would use it over a katana even with offensive spin. Improved haste would always be the better choise.
Improved haste FoA +5 = 6 APR with 1-6 + 30 damage.
Offensive spin FoA +5 = 4 APR with 6 + 30 damage (+2 damage from spin)
Is it worth sacrifising 2 APR for that?
--------------------------------------------------------------
I'm sorry for the long post. But i hope by this post that i can show you that there is a very big problem with the blade. It's not showing so much in BGEE but once/if you end up making BGEE2 then it's going to be very clear.
And you can't change it just for BGEE unless you somehow write that in the class description.
It might have been a fault in the original BG2 that the blade could also use haste. But then that was one fantastic fault as it kept the Blade perfectly balanced along with the rest of the classes.
Alot of people back in the days always complained that the F/M was much better than the blade. Most of the time these people didn't have the experience or information so they didn't know that it isn't that big of a gap. But after this change i can't help but agree, the F/M is much better than the Blade.
I can defend 8APR + maximum damage vs 8 APR + critical strike.
But i can't defend 4 APR + maximum damage vs 8 APR + critical strike.
0
Comments
No one gives a %^#& if a class is stronger or not. This isn't a competitive game, if people don't want to play a class because they think it's weak, it's their choice.
I personally despise the blade....not because he's weak, but because he's much stronger then he should be.....Blades are NOT meant to be melee fighters...they are support characters, who debuff (Weapon displays +1/-1 buff/penalty to allies/enemies, Called Shots via thrown weapons), CC (OS's No save fear), and Tank (Defensive spin, boosts AC and causes damage equal to half the blades level to enemies attempting to strike the blade on a failed save)...they do not deal damage because they gain no combat bonuses (they aren't even supposed to be able to use wands or cast from scrolls).
Meanwhile the Skald who IS meant to be a melee powerhouse (though not as hardcore as the Gallant...who is basically a Cavalier on the bard xp table), is relegated to support duty, due to %^$# implementation of their Battle Song which they're supposed to be able to sing while fighting.
2.) Alot of people enjoy playing on high level characters, and most people i know nowadays play with SCS or other diffculty enhancing mods
3.) Draconis, Abi, Demogorgon and many more ToB enemies will eat you up with your 4 ARP, it's not a round or two. When i solo against Draconis with all his protections we're talking several rounds even with 8 ARP and max damage.
4.) I don't mind them getting a nerf at all. But when they are that much behind everyone else game wise, it's starting to get sad. Especially now with the F/M.
5.) The main reason is that if they removed this nerf absolutely no one would suffer. I don't see why they did this in BGEE to start with. No one was complaining, and the blade was at a fine place.
"This ability lasts for 24 seconds and grants the blade +2 bonus to hit and damage and an extra attack. All of the blade's attacks do maximum damage for the duration"
Thank you for the correction