Baldur's gate 2 dreams.
SionIV
Member Posts: 2,689
Hello everyone!
In another thread we got into the dreams, what they mean and who are actually in them. Some of it belonged in the thread but not all of it, and on it's own it would make quite an interesting thread. So i'm going to take my musings and questions here instead, in it's own thread.
The big question would be. The people in your dream....
1.) Are they all real?
2.) Are only some of them real? (Irenicus, Imoen)
3.) Are none of them real? Is it just part of your subconcious?
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Well let's get started.
1.) Are they all real?
This isn't very likely as you see Gorian, Sarevok and many more that are killed and turned to stone. These are most probably part of your own subconcious. But Imoen and Irenicus are different, and that moves us to point #2
2.) Are only some of them real?
Irenicus - Irenicus might be real in your dream. The way he talks to your character, and the way he makes you reach for your bhaal taint seem to work in union with his own goals. Some of the dialogues he have in your dream, like with the woman "And now she is dead" what would your subconcious gain from showing you this?
Also we have the question, why would your subconcious chose him? If the taint is trying to get through to you, why would it pick Irenicus in the dreams, as that would obviously make you fight against it. In the later dreams with Imoen there is some kind of kindness and seduction to your taint, but you don't see this with Irenicus.
Imoen - Imoen is part of all of your dreams, she is a major part of the first one. And in the second and third one she is tortured based on your choise (Dream 2) or just to get a reaction from you (Dream 3). Then the question would be, does she die when she fall down or just lose conciousness like you? This is quite important, as if she loses concious then she might actually have been part of it.
3.) Are none of them real? Is it just part of your Subconcious?
Is it just your mind playing tricks on you? Or rather guiding you towards a goal? and if so what is the goal? The first three dreams are kind of tricky when it comes to this. But the dream you have in spellhold, and the ones after that it seems more correct.
In the 4th dream (The first one in spellhold) Irenicus seems shocked that you actually survived the challenge. This would point towards the fact that he isn't part of this dream. And the second dream you get in spellhold with the slayer, Imoen would never behave like that so it's most probably the taint (Your subconcious) that is reaching out to you.
But if Imoen and Irenicus aren't real in Dream #4 and #5 then there is a possibility that they never were to begin with. What about the first thee dreams? Could that be your subconcious trying to guide you along?
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In my opinion :
I can't help but think that Imoen was never real in your dream, she was just a part of your imagination. She is a guide in the first dream, in the second dream she is tortured depending on your choise, and in the third dream she is punished to prove a point. In the fourth dream she is your subconcious telling you how to complete the challenge, part of your taint/blood . In the fifth dream she is obviously not the real Imoen, but your taint reaching out to you... Embrace what you are, Embrace the slayer.
I really do think that it's Irenicus that is in your first three dreams. The way he speaks, and the way that what he is showing you works perfectly with what he wants out of you. It's obviouse that he isn't part of it in the 4th dream, and he actually dies to the slayer in the 5th dream.
But then the question would be, why isn't he in your dreams anymore?
Feel free to write down your opinion here, i would love to hear more ideas!
In another thread we got into the dreams, what they mean and who are actually in them. Some of it belonged in the thread but not all of it, and on it's own it would make quite an interesting thread. So i'm going to take my musings and questions here instead, in it's own thread.
The big question would be. The people in your dream....
1.) Are they all real?
2.) Are only some of them real? (Irenicus, Imoen)
3.) Are none of them real? Is it just part of your subconcious?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well let's get started.
1.) Are they all real?
This isn't very likely as you see Gorian, Sarevok and many more that are killed and turned to stone. These are most probably part of your own subconcious. But Imoen and Irenicus are different, and that moves us to point #2
2.) Are only some of them real?
Irenicus - Irenicus might be real in your dream. The way he talks to your character, and the way he makes you reach for your bhaal taint seem to work in union with his own goals. Some of the dialogues he have in your dream, like with the woman "And now she is dead" what would your subconcious gain from showing you this?
Also we have the question, why would your subconcious chose him? If the taint is trying to get through to you, why would it pick Irenicus in the dreams, as that would obviously make you fight against it. In the later dreams with Imoen there is some kind of kindness and seduction to your taint, but you don't see this with Irenicus.
Imoen - Imoen is part of all of your dreams, she is a major part of the first one. And in the second and third one she is tortured based on your choise (Dream 2) or just to get a reaction from you (Dream 3). Then the question would be, does she die when she fall down or just lose conciousness like you? This is quite important, as if she loses concious then she might actually have been part of it.
3.) Are none of them real? Is it just part of your Subconcious?
Is it just your mind playing tricks on you? Or rather guiding you towards a goal? and if so what is the goal? The first three dreams are kind of tricky when it comes to this. But the dream you have in spellhold, and the ones after that it seems more correct.
In the 4th dream (The first one in spellhold) Irenicus seems shocked that you actually survived the challenge. This would point towards the fact that he isn't part of this dream. And the second dream you get in spellhold with the slayer, Imoen would never behave like that so it's most probably the taint (Your subconcious) that is reaching out to you.
But if Imoen and Irenicus aren't real in Dream #4 and #5 then there is a possibility that they never were to begin with. What about the first thee dreams? Could that be your subconcious trying to guide you along?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
In my opinion :
I can't help but think that Imoen was never real in your dream, she was just a part of your imagination. She is a guide in the first dream, in the second dream she is tortured depending on your choise, and in the third dream she is punished to prove a point. In the fourth dream she is your subconcious telling you how to complete the challenge, part of your taint/blood . In the fifth dream she is obviously not the real Imoen, but your taint reaching out to you... Embrace what you are, Embrace the slayer.
I really do think that it's Irenicus that is in your first three dreams. The way he speaks, and the way that what he is showing you works perfectly with what he wants out of you. It's obviouse that he isn't part of it in the 4th dream, and he actually dies to the slayer in the 5th dream.
But then the question would be, why isn't he in your dreams anymore?
Feel free to write down your opinion here, i would love to hear more ideas!
5
Comments
I can understand in your own thread that you bash people, it's wrong but it's still a thread that you created and you might have felt derailed from your topic (Which is your opinion)
But why would you come in here and insult me? I have neither said or done anything to you. I commented in your thread and that's it. I have nothing against you as a person, i might not agree with some of your ideas but i'm not going to insult or downtalk you because of that.
I would be glad if these personal attacks would end, as you're doing nothing except making yourself look stupid.
I went into your thread and wrote 'Blocks of text' that i (and others) felt that had something to do with your question. I have read through the thread several times and i still look at it as part of the topic. I wouldn't have spent all my time posting that if i didn't feel it was part of your question, and might have provided an answer for you (One that i can see now obviously wasn't what you wanted)
In most of your threads you're telling people "Stay on topic!". People that actually had something they felt like saying that might have been under the same topic. Yet you're comming into my thread and not even touching the subject, just leaving veiled insults and rude comments.
I can't help but feel that the way you write is very toxic, and it brings nothing but the worst out in people.
I'm sorry if i ever did you something wrong, because i tried to read through my comments and can't find anything.
Oh well, @SionIV, my own opinion is that when we play D&D Forgotten Realms, we are in a world of magical, divine, multi-layered reality. There are the Weave, a demonstrably provable afterlife system, gods and devils, angels and demons, and a celestial/terrestrial/infernal overlapping reality that would make Dante piss himself. The medieval people who created the three main branches of Western religion would be right at home here.
So, in this magical reality, there is no such thing as permanent oblivion by death, and spiritual essences of actual entities really do exist forever and eternally.
So, all of the dreams in BG, SoA, and ToB are actual communications to you by the spirits of the dead. Take them very seriously, and learn from them, and be comforted that your friends never really die. Unfortunately, the corollary is that your enemies never really do, either.
People please, Bobby McFerrin. Don't worry, be happy!
I'm also a fan of Edgar Allen Poe's "The Bells". When I feel like I'm crumbling in my ability to cope with life, and I just can't take all the suffering and harsh criticism and pain, both emotional and physical, constantly inflicted by human upon human in this world, as though the stronger human enjoys making Kierkegaard's "The Other", suffer, I often laugh maniacally and start reciting both these poems.
"The bells, bells, bells, bells, bells, bells, bells!" (It is musically significant that Poe chose exactly seven iterations of "bells" in every chorus). "The clanging and the clashing of the bells!" "The tolling and the gnolling of the bells!"
"Ask not for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for thee."
LOL. Thank you for reminding me how much I love Edgar Allen Poe! I really need to buy a good book of his poems and to reread them, as well as a good biography.
Meanwhile, to quote Khalid, "I hate to be...um...confrontational, but you could you please be less, um, evil?"
Lighten up, dude. Being angry all the time just makes you suffer.
Don't worry, be happy!
I think when Imoen appears she is just a representation of your soul or something close to that. Argument for that would be how she wants you to bring her in one of the dreams your taint or essence, so she and you could together subdue it.
But how it kind of fails and ends with her screaming when Irenicus takes her out of you since she is your soul and how it is represented by someone you care for, which is even if you don't agree; Imoen.. Even if I wanted to put her on a Basilisk hunt more than once...
Your essence of Bhaal takes on the form of Imoen, Serevok and Irenicus in the game. Serevok stands for your hate and Irenicus stand for your vengence. Imoen is the representation of the essence when your soul is taken so I would think that she then stands purely for your essence, your essence that has now taken the place of your lost soul.
Just my thoughts of course but I think they make sense if you could understand my ramblings
But one question i'm trying to understand is the Dream #2. The whole thing with the woman and such. Is it just so simple that it's there to show the consequences of your destruction/actions , and how it affect other people around you? (Her sons).
And you gave me some interesting posts to consider.