Help me not be terrible at this game please.
merricks
Member Posts: 2
Hi.
I'm a new BG player. Back in the 'old' days as I subjectively refer to them I played a ton of games like Icewind Dale, the Fallouts, Arcanum etc. But for some reason the classic BG games completely passed me by. Now I'm in catch up mode. Except, I am finding that I am absolutely terrible at this game and it is really stopping me from being able to enjoy it.
A little bit of background: I hate reloading games and I hate save-scumming, but my experience with BG so far has been one of constant reloads and trial error. I feel like I am metagaming my way through rather than actually experiencing the game.
First character was a thief. I like sneaking, I like stealing, I like generally being devious in games. Somewhere around the prologue area of the game I got in my first fight. It went something like this:
Miss, Miss, Miss, Miss, Miss, Miss, Miss, Oh I'm dead.
Figuring that I had done something wrong I reloaded to try again, but firstly, I knew the fight was coming this time, so I prepared for it (which felt a bit cheaty to me (metagaming)) and secondly, I still only managed to scrape through the fight by the skin of my teeth. The amount that my character is simply just not hitting the enemy standing right in front of them is frustrating to say the least. I didn't get far with this character again and had to reload pretty much every fight in the game; some two or three times just to wait for the game to proc a critical hit or something in my favour that meant I could finally win a fight.
As a thief, I figured that what I lost in combat ability I could make up for in being rich as hell through stealing and pickpocketing my way to- Oh great; Now I have to fight all the town guards and can't succeed my hide checks and am dead again. Time to reload.
Figuring that this was just a result of it being my first character and me not really understanding the game mechanics, I gave up on it and started again. This time with a mage of some kind (it's been a while, I can't remember the exact kit.) It worked a lot like I remember mages working on Icewind Dale, that you memorize a number of spells for a day; except that number was very small. So small in fact that it couldn't even get me through one combat encounter.
I cast magic missile. It does barely anything to the opponent. Now what? I am rendered useless until I rest; yet it's still only morning. I get into another combat encounter, I've got no spells; I've got nothing. I die.
Do players abuse the ability to rest for hours after every combat encounter to regain the use of the spells? Is this an intended mechanic? That seems kind of dumb to me, that I would wake up from the inn, walk out into a field, kill a single wolf, then make camp for 16 hours before moving on to kill the next wolf just so I can have my spells back. I couldn't bring myself to do it. Playing the mage felt worse than the initial thief. At least the thief procced the occasional critical backstab to get through fights. The mage didn't even have the fire power to bring down one opponent with his daily allowance of spells and then was left with nothing until it finally hit night and I could find an inn somewhere.
I must be doing something wrong. I finally caved and googled for some information on character creation. Came away with the impression that the most OP class in the game is the "Kensage" and while I didn't really understand the mechanics of dual-classing and multi-classing I decided to give it a shot. Third time's the charm.
Miss, Miss, Miss, Miss, Miss, Miss, Blew my load of spells. Oh I'm dead.
Forum posts on this board make such a big deal about how unbelievably easy the game is, yet every character I make becomes an exercise in metagaming combat encounters and reloading until I get lucky rolls. It's not just my character's either, it's every NPC I pick up to help. They all end up dead too.
I gave up. I stopped playing and went away for quite a while. A number of months. Now I feel like I can't let this game beat me and I want to start again, but this time I am asking for help. Please help me be less terrible at this game.
What class should I run for a really sustainable experience? I don't want to have to rest for 16 hours after every combat encounter to regain my spells, it seems like that breaks the immersion. Is this really the intended mechanic? I want to reload as little as possible. Why are my character's missing so much and so bad at combat?
Thanks!
I'm a new BG player. Back in the 'old' days as I subjectively refer to them I played a ton of games like Icewind Dale, the Fallouts, Arcanum etc. But for some reason the classic BG games completely passed me by. Now I'm in catch up mode. Except, I am finding that I am absolutely terrible at this game and it is really stopping me from being able to enjoy it.
A little bit of background: I hate reloading games and I hate save-scumming, but my experience with BG so far has been one of constant reloads and trial error. I feel like I am metagaming my way through rather than actually experiencing the game.
First character was a thief. I like sneaking, I like stealing, I like generally being devious in games. Somewhere around the prologue area of the game I got in my first fight. It went something like this:
Miss, Miss, Miss, Miss, Miss, Miss, Miss, Oh I'm dead.
Figuring that I had done something wrong I reloaded to try again, but firstly, I knew the fight was coming this time, so I prepared for it (which felt a bit cheaty to me (metagaming)) and secondly, I still only managed to scrape through the fight by the skin of my teeth. The amount that my character is simply just not hitting the enemy standing right in front of them is frustrating to say the least. I didn't get far with this character again and had to reload pretty much every fight in the game; some two or three times just to wait for the game to proc a critical hit or something in my favour that meant I could finally win a fight.
As a thief, I figured that what I lost in combat ability I could make up for in being rich as hell through stealing and pickpocketing my way to- Oh great; Now I have to fight all the town guards and can't succeed my hide checks and am dead again. Time to reload.
Figuring that this was just a result of it being my first character and me not really understanding the game mechanics, I gave up on it and started again. This time with a mage of some kind (it's been a while, I can't remember the exact kit.) It worked a lot like I remember mages working on Icewind Dale, that you memorize a number of spells for a day; except that number was very small. So small in fact that it couldn't even get me through one combat encounter.
I cast magic missile. It does barely anything to the opponent. Now what? I am rendered useless until I rest; yet it's still only morning. I get into another combat encounter, I've got no spells; I've got nothing. I die.
Do players abuse the ability to rest for hours after every combat encounter to regain the use of the spells? Is this an intended mechanic? That seems kind of dumb to me, that I would wake up from the inn, walk out into a field, kill a single wolf, then make camp for 16 hours before moving on to kill the next wolf just so I can have my spells back. I couldn't bring myself to do it. Playing the mage felt worse than the initial thief. At least the thief procced the occasional critical backstab to get through fights. The mage didn't even have the fire power to bring down one opponent with his daily allowance of spells and then was left with nothing until it finally hit night and I could find an inn somewhere.
I must be doing something wrong. I finally caved and googled for some information on character creation. Came away with the impression that the most OP class in the game is the "Kensage" and while I didn't really understand the mechanics of dual-classing and multi-classing I decided to give it a shot. Third time's the charm.
Miss, Miss, Miss, Miss, Miss, Miss, Blew my load of spells. Oh I'm dead.
Forum posts on this board make such a big deal about how unbelievably easy the game is, yet every character I make becomes an exercise in metagaming combat encounters and reloading until I get lucky rolls. It's not just my character's either, it's every NPC I pick up to help. They all end up dead too.
I gave up. I stopped playing and went away for quite a while. A number of months. Now I feel like I can't let this game beat me and I want to start again, but this time I am asking for help. Please help me be less terrible at this game.
What class should I run for a really sustainable experience? I don't want to have to rest for 16 hours after every combat encounter to regain my spells, it seems like that breaks the immersion. Is this really the intended mechanic? I want to reload as little as possible. Why are my character's missing so much and so bad at combat?
Thanks!
0
Comments
I'll try to put his in pointers to make it a little bit easier to read.
1.) You somehow picked the hardest classes to start the game with. The rogue is one of the hardest classes to play low level, and you're very dependant on having a team to support you.
The mage is possible the worst class to play at low level. With incredible low health, almost 0 chanse to hit in melee and when you do hit, you'll do very low damage. The mage also needs a team to survive in this game until higher levels. Once you start getting powerful spells (level 3-4) you can clear camps of monsters out on your own. But you need someone to protect you.
The kensage (Kensai-mage) is one of the most powerful combinations in the game. But they are incredible weak for most of the early game. And in BGEE you probably won't ever become strong enough to survive on your own.
All the classes you have picked are classes that are very weak in the early game. This leads me to #2
2.) For a new player this game is very dependant on having a good team. You will want a rogue, mage, cleric and most importantly a fighter. You don't need all of these but it sure makes your game easier. The most important character on low level is without question a fighter.
The fighter can get very good AC early in the game and can stand forward and tank for you. You will want 1-2 fighters to go close and fight the enemy, while having your casters / rogues and such behind using spells and ranged weapons.
3.) In Baldur's gate 1 and on low levels, ranged is the king. Everyone that can have a ranged weapon should have one equipped. The only exception is one or two well geared fighters (can be rangers, paladins, fighters) that should go meet the enemy on the charge.
So while your fighters are holding them back, you should be firing as much as possible into the enemy with your ranged weapons.
4.) You probably know this already, but constitution and dexterity are incredible good to have, especially dexterity. You should always if possible have 18 dexterity on your character. And if you're playing a fighter/paladin/ranger/barbarian you will want 18 constitution, if you're not playing one of those 16 is fine.
5.) To get into the game try to create a pure fighter first. Put your stats something like this :
18/xx strength
18 dexterity
18 constitution
10 wisdom
10 intellect
10 charisma.
You can improve Wis,int and charisma if you get a better roll but as long as you have Str, Con and dex maxed you're fine.
When you reach level 3-5 you can dual class this warrior to a rogue if you want a rogue. When you do this you will have a rogue with much more health, that can fight incredible well in close combat and can wear full plate if you want to.
Once you learn all the small tricks and secrets of the game/AI then you can always make a new character. But a pure fighter human is great for starter.
6.) When you're playing a mage or cleric don't focus on damage spells so much at the start. Pick spells that incapacitate the enemy instead. Sleep (level 1 spell) for a mage is one of the most powerful spells in the game and can easily put down 10-15 enemies if you get lucky. They can't do anything as you shoot them down with your ranged attacks.
7.) Steal everything that isn't bolted down on your rogue. You can easily get several thousend golds just by going through beregost stealing stuff.
I'm sure there are more things i'll add here later, but this should help you somewhat.
[Edited]
8.) On low level you will want to give your fighter a ranged weapon aswell. When you reach 2-3 and start having those 30-40 health he should be fine at the front without much to worry about.
9.) Between beregost and friedly arms inn you'll get a ton of experience. Go into every house and talk to everyone, you can easily get 5 000+ experience in beregost alone if you pick the right dialogues.
10.) You can pick up two very powerful rings from the start of the game. One can be sold for 9 000 which is enough gold to gear up a full party. This is kind of meta gaming but it still does help alot in the start. I won't mention where you get them unless you want me to spoil you.
11.) Righ from the area you get dumped after Gorian dies if you walk down the screen and travel to high hedge you can pick up Kivan there early without having to fight anyone. This guy is a ranger and good alignment, he is very powerful with ranged weapons and spears. Having him on your team will help you alot at the start.
Also, it's important to remember that in bg1 you have access to high level areas of the game very early.
My advice would be to stick to the roads and follow the main story line at least until nashkel mines before you start to wander off and explore the wilderness.
Aside from that the above poster had some great advice. Don't try to solo, grab a team as quick as you can.
Berserker is easier than a plain fighter - at level 1 you can double your HP and gain immunity to most of the nasty stuff people can throw at you.
"kensage"... I don't know what you did, but you did something wrong; you would create a human Kensai and play that class typically until level 13 (I.e. well into BG2) before dual-classing to Mage. In general, however, I'd suggest that you stay away from builds which are optimized for endgame ToB for now.
2.) From what i remember he won't run of that quickly, you'll have enough time with him to reach bandit camp with normal speed.
3.) It's easier and less confusing to play a plain fighter. The berserker is the better of the two but the rage can kill him. The reason i said he should go pure fighter for the first character was because it's less to focus on with your own character and he can spend more time getting to know the NPC's. But berserker is fine aswell.
4.) We're talking BGEE /BG1 here at the moment. The kensai is very weak in BG1 because he can't equip an armor and has almost no way to improve his AC to decent level. He will never reach level 13 here for his kensai, and once he does that he will have go go through 1,500,000 experience to get back his Kensai levels. The kensai/mage is not for a beginner, it's a very niche build that get incredible powerful mid-end game but is very frail early game.
pick jaheira and khalid imoen and any mage but edwin is the best
You can get out of beregost with 5 000 gold from 15 minutes of stealing.
You can right out of candlekeep go and steal :
Cloak of protection + 1
Algernons cloak (+2 charisma)
Bastard sword +1
Ring of Free Action
Warhammer +1 (+4 giants)
Bastard sword +1 (+3 shapeshifters)
That is just a start. There is so much more that you can steal in this game. Ofcourse you get much more out of this game if you're playing with good alignment than evil. But stealing in itself is probably one if not the best income in the game. And i'm not even mentioning once you get to the city Baldur's gate.
But yea pickpocketing items can be a good way to make money, but you really need to metagame or a save/reload to get the good stuff. That or take advantage of exploits. Otherwise you are just getting a lot of low-selling rings and things.
1. Create a Fighter, Berserker, Axe+shield
2. An Half-Orc, because: 19str/18dex/19con/10+ int/10+ wis/10+ cha
3. Just make sure to save/reload 1-3 time each lvl up to gain at least 10+ hp per lvl (at 19 con your max per lvl will be 17hp)
4. fight your way in the game with the support of the 5 other members
5. Even with a shield+1, axe+1, full plate mail, ring+1 you will be the boss that will kill everything. So when you will have your shield+2, axe+2, throwing axe+2, ring+2, you will feel like the demi-god that you are.
*The throwing axe+2 is supposed to work even with the Berserker kit, if not, not a big deal.
**'Core rule' is supposed to be just fine, but if not, play at 'Easy'. You will then have your +17hp each lvl up.
Your post indicates that the first problem you're having is getting through Candlekeep's initial encounters. The thief and mage are probably the most difficult characters to get through the early stages, and would best be avoided until a later date when you have the mechanics of the game well in hand.
For a few years, I always rolled up a fighter, probably because I identified mostly with them as sword wielding heroes. But, for good reason, they are the easiest characters to get through the early game. Not a bad idea, if you're still in the learning stages. The fighter can be rolled so he has 18+ STR, which is enough to blow away any of the early assassins with one hit. He also has a better chance to hit at the start than almost any other class. Also, he can use the best armor, meaning it is much harder for him to get hit.
A high DEX will also make him harder to hit because of improvement in AC. So those early encounters in Candlekeep become a piece of cake.
Once outside of Candlekeep, especially as a relatively new player, you should go for balance in your party so that fighting, defending, thieving, magic and healing all become available to you. BG/EE is set up so that you can get this balance early in the game. Pick up Imoen (thief), Montaron (fighter/thief), Xzar (mage)
and at FAI get Khalid (fighter), Jaheira (druid/healing spells). Until you really know the game in detail, pick up this party at the start, so you are balanced from the start. (Note, tend to keep Montaron and Xzar away from Jaheira and Khalid because of their different alignments. They might kill each other. I generally place Imoen or Charname between those two groups and it works).
When you meet additional NPC's, you can consider picking them up but keep the principle of balance in mind. If you meet Kivan, he easily replaces Montaron as a fighter, and you already have Imoen as thief.
If you meet Neera in Beregost, and want to add her, she can replace Xzar etc. (but she is a risk).
Over the last few months, I recently enjoyed starting PCs from all kinds of kits. But I know it would have been murder for me to try these too early. You can play a very heroic and satisfying game with a fighter class PC, or even a Paladin. Leave the others for later. All the best.
PS. Just another little note. Just south of FAI (especially if you rest) your level 1 party may get ambushed by a group of bandits. Since they are about 8 of them, and with bows drawn, there is probably only a very small chance of escaping this encounter. I don't know of anyone on this forum who has claimed to consistently survive it. It says nothing about your ability as a gamer. I just reload and go on. I play Minimal Reload, and this is the only time that I throw out the rule.
Don't feel bad about dropping the difficulty level either. Nothing wrong with playing it on a lower difficulty level if that makes it more fun to learn the game. It will still be there when you want to try your insane/no reload run
By playing an thief (except swashbuckler, an thief kit that's not a rogue class by the rules), i would suggest you to give preference to ranged weapons.
First levels (more specific 1 to 3) will be the most difficult to play in fact, the early game with basic equipment, the low thac0 and the extremly low HP will make reload something constant unless you know well the ways of this game.
As you already stated, Dexterity bonus is only base coded, no relation between dexterity and armor has been made, you can use full dexterity bonus with full plate for example.
Mages (specially the first assassination attempt at FAI), can give you a hellish experience. While you can't use PnP resources (hire someone to help you at the begin, throw sand at a mage's face to interrupt spellcast or blind him for a short time, grab him by the back and use strengh to stop his spellcasting by put your hands in his mouth), there are other resources that with time you will discover.
No matter your reputation, if someone start a fight with you near a guard or flaming fist (with a few exceptions), the guards/flaming fist will always help you (more specifically, attack the agressor). So know that you can use this to your advantages at early levels.
This is very much a full party sort of game. Smaller parties and solos would be considered "challenges". Not ideal for a first play through!
Remember starting characters, regardless of class are fragile. Even the best first level warrior can probably only survive one or two hits. So be careful. Use all your resources.
Secondly, Thief is not a very powerful class by itself, I would recommend multiclassing if you want to be a thief, mostly Mage/Thief, Elves, Half-Elves and Gnomes can do that... You will get all the thief skills you will need and more and the character will become a decent mage on the side of it as well.
Thirdly, if you don't mind slightly cheating, you could make starting off slightly easier by starting the Black Pits, fighting a little there for some XP, then bring over the character to start off with a few levels so you don't need to try to survive as a level 1 character.
And lastly, Some of the class kits will really help in survival, for Thief I would recommend the Swashbuckler, while it does give away the ability to backstab, you get AC, Damage and Hit Bonuses.
I decided to start up today with a friend of mine over multiplayer and went with the Cavalier after reading in this thread that they have fear immunity. I remember that being one of the bigger frustrations. It's already been a much much smoother ride and no need to reload yet. I did set my STR/CON/DEX all to 18 as recommended but as I was unable to lower my charisma I had to take most of those points out of INT, leaving it at about 8 or 9 or something quite low like that. Hopefully this is not a huge problem. I also wasn't sure what proficiencies to take so I went with Long Sword and Sword and Shield Technique.
Thanks again for all the tips, I will definitely refer back to this thread in the future.
The charisma is from requirements of the Paladin class, it doesn't do too much, but shopkeepers will give you a little discount with a high charisma.
9 or less int - can't cast arcane spells.
10 int - only has access to 1° lvl arcane spells.
11 int - has access to 2° lvl arcane spells.
12 int - has access to 3° lvl arcane spells.
13 int - has access to 4° lvl arcane spells.
14 int - has access to 5° lvl arcane spells.
15 int - has access to 6° lvl arcane spells.
16 int - has access to 7° lvl arcane spells.
17 int - has access to 8° lvl arcane spells.
18 int - has access to 9° lvl arcane spells.
But if i'm not wrong, ToB install removed it (at least for the NPCs, i never played a mage with less than 18 int).
I know 3.5 edition has this, as NWN2 certainly has it.
Ulgoth's beard, the house under you when you enter the map.
This only happens in 3rd edition rules like : Icewind Dale 2, Neverwinter Nights, ...
Thieves are mostly there for their utility (especially nice in BG2 when you get progressively larger XP rewards for opening locks or disarming traps...not the tiny pittance that EE gives), or for assassinating the hell out of mages/clerics with a chunking backstab, or softening up a strong target before the group moves in. (Once they get boots of speed and decent stealth score, if the room is large enough you can BS multiple times in quick succession, without having to deal with the penalties a shadow dancer brings).
In late BG2, the number of enemies immune to backstab raises dramatically...but by then, your traps are deadly and you have a decent number day and you're close to having access to equipping any equipment you desire...letting you pretend to be F/M/T, but as a single class if you want to do so.
Picking Pockets is almost never worth it, and is generally too risky to attempt if you don't want to reload excessively. While you do occasionally get good items, the really good ones require a guide, and anything else is just random chance.
Opening locked chests and stealing everything of value that isn't tied down is where the money is at. There even a wand of lightning you can get almost immediately, that doesn't even require that much OL to get to, that in the hands of a mage or bard can, with careful aiming so you don't kill yourself, take out or heavily wound a bunch of otherwise tough encounters. And a wand of fire that just requires a good stealth score or a couple invisibility potions that can trivialize the whole game if you find it early.
Well, as of the latest BGEE version, the sword in Ulgoth's Beard is a generic bastard sword +1, with the cold iron +1/+3 found on that dude in Cloakwood. Oddly, Dudleyville,lists what said.
1. Avoid melee in the beginning. From Candlekeep, buy your CHARNAME the best ranged weapon he can use. Buy three slings for Monty, Xzar and Jaheira. Buy a longbow for Khalid. Imoen comes with a short bow. This setup will let you breeze through the early game.
2. Choose your battles. This should be obvious but often people seem to think every battle you meet with should be winnable. This isn't necessarily true in this game. If you're two weakling thieves just out of your childhood home, maybe you shouldn't engage the Black Bear or whatever in the first place.
3. Build a full, 6 person party ASAP. See 1. To complete the canon (good aligned) party, dump Monty and Xzar for Minsc. Rescue Dynaheir and take her in before going to Nashkel mines.
This should get you started in whatever class you want to play.