Should I give up and start again?
Heindrich
Member, Moderator Posts: 2,959
Please no spoilers in your answers, but...
In my first run of BG 1 Vanilla, I accepted Xzar and Montaron into my party, but Montaron died in his first battle when I got attacked by that caster at the gates of Friendly Arm Inn.
I don't like save-loading too much in RPGs, so I accepted the loss and continued. But I am finding battles quite tricky, like a single Dread Wolf nearly killed 2 more characters, when I got a random ambush event just out of the Friend Arm, Imoen got 1-shot by a Worg before I could do anything -.-
Obviously I will restart from just before Imoen died, but should I restart altogether? Is the loss of any single NPC party member a crippling blow for the team?
Thanks
In my first run of BG 1 Vanilla, I accepted Xzar and Montaron into my party, but Montaron died in his first battle when I got attacked by that caster at the gates of Friendly Arm Inn.
I don't like save-loading too much in RPGs, so I accepted the loss and continued. But I am finding battles quite tricky, like a single Dread Wolf nearly killed 2 more characters, when I got a random ambush event just out of the Friend Arm, Imoen got 1-shot by a Worg before I could do anything -.-
Obviously I will restart from just before Imoen died, but should I restart altogether? Is the loss of any single NPC party member a crippling blow for the team?
Thanks
1
Comments
You can also raise a dead party member at any temple. Just make sure you bring their equipment with you.
Also... is there anything I could do to avoid 'sudden deaths' like Imoen's? I mean the Worg hit her for 16 and killed her in 1 shot... are those kind of ambushes just unlucky or can they be combated effective by a noob team?
Dread Wolf is bad luck at low level, they're pretty tough! And 16 points from a worg! Owww! That was a bad critical. It won't happen often.
But that said, yes you can raise them pretty easily (visit a temple; unless they are "chunked". Basically, if their portrait still shows up in your party you can get them raised), as others mentioned, don't forget to pick up their stuff!
Just as a matter of personal interest, I would always raise Imoen. I would not raise Monteron. And if Imoen gets chunked, I'd hit reload.
this should help a little
spells like sleep entlage and other crowd control are godsend in lower levels
horror web
Anyways I've since restarted just before Imoen's death and this time got to Beregost safely.
Something I wanna know now is... Is there any way u can find out about the stats of the enemies you come across ingame? When I hover my mouse over an enemy, it just displays name, and when I right-click, there's just an audio file, which tells me nothing about how worried I should be about the encounter or how best I can defeat it. Like I had no idea how powerful a Dread Wolf was until he nearly killed my (relative) tank in one bite...
Random encounters can be nasty. They're part of why I've never really done a "no re-load" challenge. There's just too much that can go wrong.
As far as how tough things are, you can check the manual. I know that's not always practical, but I think its got a lot of the sort of information residents would actually have; like worgs and dire wolves are just a little tougher than regular wolves. Dread and Winter wolves are a lot tougher. And Vampiric wolves are very tough (especially if you don't have magic weapons!).
Otherwise, its just going to be trial and error. You can turn on maximum feedback from the game play menu, and watch if a critter is absorbing some damage (and learn things like blunt weapons work better against skeletons). But trial and error will always be the best teacher.
Not for power neither will make any difference in the fights, but would be nice.
Obs: an second idea could be to make some monsters unknow based on lore check of the highest lore party member, which would be used to check the monsters in that specific map, to detect their names (or not). Every time we re-enter that area, the lore check could be renewed.
Another good resource would be the 2E Monstrous Compendium (recently reissued by WotC).
That will at least give a good run down of how tough everything is and what special abilities and resistances they may have.
But it's really only a big problem right at the beginning. I would recommend a fast run to the Friendly Arms Inn after Gorion's death. Then add Khalid and Jaheira to your party, get everyone as well equipped as you can afford, and learn some good spells. At that point, you can survive what's on the road to Neshkel. By the time you hit 2nd level you are a little more capable. But until you start hitting 3rd level with your spell casters just plan on firing off most of your spells every battle, and resting a lot!
Thanks so much! That monstrous compendium is really useful, I noticed it was written for AD&D, but it seems the descriptions are more or less accurate for BG (in terms of xp gain at least). I knew the BG series was based on AD&D, but I had no idea it was so faithful to the pen and paper game!
Anyways sorry to pester u (and the wider community with so many noob questions)… I am a bit of a paradox when it comes to RPG games, in that I don’t min-max at the expense of creating an interesting story with relatable characters, and I don’t like to save-load unless absolutely necessary (I’m the type that played Diablo 3 in Hardcore Mode). However I do want to do reasonably well in the game (cos dying all the time is never fun), so the only solution I can see is to ask lots of questions here, since I got no AD&D experience and the game mechanism can be a bit bewildering and confusing.
For example I created my Half-Elf Mage/Fighter, although I was patient enough to roll a very solid stat-line for him, I did not min-max as the guide suggested, and did not (namely maximize strength and constitution and minimize charisma and wisdom). I envisaged my character as a skillful (but not strong/tough) warrior and a naturally talented mage, but lacking experience and knowledge, so I gave him the following non optimal stat-line.
Strength: 15
Dexterity: 15
Constitution: 14
Intelligence: 18
Wisdom: 13
Charisma: 13
I had assumed that I could improve those stats as I level up, but then I realized that your basic attributes more or less stay with you forever, and they determine how your character develops. So I re-rolled again with a slightly more optimized, but still not ideal setup.
Strength: 15
Dexterity: 17
Constitution: 15
Intelligence: 18
Wisdom: 12
Charisma: 10
I hope this will be okay to get the job done, whilst not taking a ‘gamey’ setup with 18 for Str, Dex, Const, and Int, but 7 Wisdom and 7 Charisma.
I'm glad to hear you're not min/maxing, I always like slightly irregular characters. Its much more fun to be a little less than perfect. Although, that said, don't underestimate charisma! It makes a big difference on all those business transactions you'll do throughout the game. But either set of those scores looks very doable to me.
By the time you finish the whole game (ToB) you should gain about two points to each score. So yeah, its a lot different than other rules sets where you may add many more points.
If you're going to become:
or at least have the chance, isn't a surprise that you must be an exceptional character.
In D&D i like to make my characters powerful, i have an high degree of respect for roleplay and sometimes i dump an stat to roleplay that (actually i'm playing a barbarian with charisma 7, i already played a mage with const 6 to simulate a diseased person and to have low HP challenge for more than early levels).
But when i want to roleplay flaws in the proper manner, i turn to RPGs that are based in this kind of roleplay, as Vampire the Masquerade/Dark Ages. D&D is meant to be a world of magic where we try our luck in adventure (normally).
he is fighter so should be stronger than others
he is mage and mages are pretty fast (not armored) guys
That said, Fighter/Mages have some essential stats you should go for.
18 Str - You do a lot more damage with your weapons than spells as a Fighter/Mage, especially in the early game when that +2-6 damage is very important.
18 Dex - You are mostly going to use spells for your defenses, and Dex bonus to AC stacks with all of those spells.
18 Int - You obviously know why for a Mage
15 Wis - With 3 +1 Wis tomes in the game, this will get you the 18 you'll need for the 9th level Wish spell, which will guarantee you at least one positive option each cast.
The AD&D system seems to have much greater variability than Diablo or Avernum, like in my first run-through, Tarnesh killed Montaron, but otherwise did not trouble my party much. On my second run, he managed to 'horror' three of my team and killed my protagonist whilst he was 'out of control'. When I reloaded just before the battle and fought him the third time, he died almost immediately to Imoen's arrows. It seems that, at least at low levels, both sides tend to miss alot, but almost any hits that land tend to be very damaging.
Something I am not clear about however is party reputation. My protag is Lawful Good, but I have a range of characters in the party, so how is party reputation calculated overall?
Also although my protag is Lawful, I cannot help but want to steal things from every locked container I come across... lol Does that damage my reputation at all? In fact it's pretty weird that you can apparently pick locks or even bash them in without alerting NPCs in the same room! In Avernum you can also try to steal things, but if you do it in line of sight of any townsfolk or guards, the whole settlement turns hostile against you and your reputation takes a hit.
For a lawful type, I would say don't break into things, don't steal. But your sister is another story... Imoen may be more curious, nosy, light-fingered. Even if I'm playing a paladin, I'll "allow" for Imoen to run off and "investigate" certain things on her own. Keep in mind though, she is good. She probably won't burgle homes or rob stores. Although she might pick-up things left in barrels, chests and what not out in the open.
Getting caught can still cause trouble. She (and the party) can always run. But I tend to play it safe in towns. If you ever do kill an innocent, or a guard, you will take a big reputation hit.
There's always a chance of being noticed when you're stealing. Maybe that chance should be closer to 100% in some cases! But the only way its ever 0% is if you're alone.
You'd also commented further up how variable things are in AD&D. That is true. To me, its part of the appeal. I've played characters with all sorts of odd attributes. I think that's fun. It actually used to be (in PNP) that you rolled scores first, then tried to fit a class. And point shifting was never 1 to 1. So you might end up with your best scores being a 16 strength and 15 intelligence. So what to do? You could play a really brainy fighter. Or a big ox of a mage. Either way could make for some really interesting role playing.
The number of one-shot kills you see in the game will lessen as you go up levels. When everyone has more hit points two or three arrows won't seem like such a big deal. You'll also be hitting more often. It will lead to a more predictable flow of pure combat. But initiative rolls will always be a big deal. Because who gets off their spells first will determine a lot of battles. So don't be afraid to experiment with a lot of spells. Everyone finds their favorites, and they make a huge difference in battle.
My $0.02 on character abilities: You are looking at it the wrong way - you don't have peak strength because you are a fighter but instead you chose fighter because you have peak strength (for your race; the vast majority of the population will have below average, slightly below average, average or slightly above average attributes and those people may become guards, soldiers, scholars, healers, craftsmen,etc and only those at the peak of their fields go on to become fighters, mages or rogues of legend.
[That is a variant of the anthropic principle - given that charname's exploits are notable enough to appear in story it shouldn't surprise you that he's not an average guy with average skill]
Kind of a funny twist on "outsourcing evil" there. I'm pretty hard core about doing no evil. I don't play evil, and I don't ever expect Imoen to do evil either. As I said, no burglary, no violence. But she'll snoop.
Even Robert E. Lee used spies and scouts...
Technically, your paladin is being lawful stupid if he refuses to allow scouting, ranged combat or spell casting. As for thieving, you can totally rp an NPc that decides to liberate some under utilized wealth in a nobles house, even a neutral good one on a mission from god could do this.
I intend to run a mediocre stated fighter eventually. With that nifty belt, and the gauntlets of dex, you fix two of your key stats. Until you get the belt, potions it is.
And sorry about the RE Lee quip, I shouldn't assume folks know any history. The man hated spies of any sort, but he understood the idea of operational necessity. THAT, is the parallel. To the best of my knowledge, he did not have Lay on Hands...
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/community-creations/house-rules/classes/paladin-of-freedom
Also, there's the Holy Liberator official prestige class, displayed in the Complete Divine Player Handbook, that are a prestige class paladin of the specific chaotic good alignment, many times taken by chaotic good fighters or rangers and by some chaotic good clerics and even thiefs also, the very example of robin hood paladin.
With regards to morality, I imagine Imoen as a carefree, reckless, opportunistic and spirited young girl who doesn't conform to rules of society. She is good at heart, but can't help but try to grab nice things from locked containers, not only to get at the nice things in them, but for the thrill of getting away with it. My lawful good protagonist disapproves, she does her thing behind his back, and he is forced to tolerate the behaviour to an extent, partly cos he has no choice, partly because she is his only friend/family left in the world.