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Imoen Development Strategy (BG1 Vanilla)

HeindrichHeindrich Member, Moderator Posts: 2,959
As I said in a previous thread, I intend to stick with most of the canon characters for BG 1 and its expansion (When I import my protagonist from BG 1 to BG 2, can he keep his party? Or are their stats re-rolled randomly again?)

I have just done a few odd jobs on the South Beregost Road and I am about to return to Beregost to collect my rewards when another random encounter against a Ghast (surprisingly easy given 650 xp reward) boosted Imoen to level 3.

Although I definitely intend to stick with her to the end, she is the one character I have no clear ideas for development, from a gaming and RP perspective. So some suggestions and answers would be much appreciated.

Oh, my Imoen’s randomly rolled stats are: (I think it’s a pretty good roll, right?)

Str: 9
Dex: 18
Con: 16
Int: 17
Wis: 11
Cha: 16

Given that the canon-party is light on Divine Magic, (and my protag is a Mage/Fighter) one vague idea I have is to eventually dual-class her into a Thief/Cleric, but I have no idea when I should begin the process if I do go down that path.

In the immediate future, which of the thief stats are most important? I have not had much success with picking locks and I haven’t tried to pick-pocket very often, but so far, I have never used stealth or detecting traps either. I guess my question then is does stealth become very important and will traps feature a lot in the game in the future?




Comments

  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689

    As I said in a previous thread, I intend to stick with most of the canon characters for BG 1 and its expansion (When I import my protagonist from BG 1 to BG 2, can he keep his party? Or are their stats re-rolled randomly again?)

    I have just done a few odd jobs on the South Beregost Road and I am about to return to Beregost to collect my rewards when another random encounter against a Ghast (surprisingly easy given 650 xp reward) boosted Imoen to level 3.

    Although I definitely intend to stick with her to the end, she is the one character I have no clear ideas for development, from a gaming and RP perspective. So some suggestions and answers would be much appreciated.

    Oh, my Imoen’s randomly rolled stats are: (I think it’s a pretty good roll, right?)

    Str: 9
    Dex: 18
    Con: 16
    Int: 17
    Wis: 11
    Cha: 16

    Given that the canon-party is light on Divine Magic, (and my protag is a Mage/Fighter) one vague idea I have is to eventually dual-class her into a Thief/Cleric, but I have no idea when I should begin the process if I do go down that path.

    In the immediate future, which of the thief stats are most important? I have not had much success with picking locks and I haven’t tried to pick-pocket very often, but so far, I have never used stealth or detecting traps either. I guess my question then is does stealth become very important and will traps feature a lot in the game in the future?




    1.) what is this with randomly rolled stats? That is her original stats and they are always the same. The stats on the NPC's never change unless you have a mod that does it.

    2.) You need 15 wisdom to dual class her to a cleric so it's not possible.

    3.) Most people dual class her to a mage at level 7
  • HeindrichHeindrich Member, Moderator Posts: 2,959
    edited June 2013
    SionIV said:



    1.) what is this with randomly rolled stats? That is her original stats and they are always the same. The stats on the NPC's never change unless you have a mod that does it.

    2.) You need 15 wisdom to dual class her to a cleric so it's not possible.

    3.) Most people dual class her to a mage at level 7

    Oh I thought NPC stats were random like Players too.

    I guess that shoots down my Cleric idea... hmmm... my party will be seriously divine-light unless I drop somebody canon... I was already contemplating letting Minsc die (after I get him) so I can go back and keep Kivan, who is my most effective character at the moment.

    Maybe I should sacrifice Jaeheira for a full cleric at some stage...

  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 2,387
    With the canon party, Imoen is the only thief, so I think its best to develop that aspect first and foremost. Open Locks and Find/Remove Traps are the key abilities. For all your NPCs, their scores and abilities are reset when you get to BG2. It will be assumed that Immy dualed to mage. And Minsc and Jaheira will have slightly different scores. Only your PC will keep scores and experience total exactly as you left it.
    Imoen does not have the requirements to dual to cleric. The requirements are 15 minimum in the prime requisite(s) for your current class (Imoen qualifies because Dexterity is the prime req for thieves, and she exceeds that) and 17 in all primes reqs for the class you're switching TOO. So Immy can only switch to mage.
    Since your character is a fighter mage, and you have Dynaheir, I would think you're best off just letting Immy be your thief.
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    atcDave said:

    With the canon party, Imoen is the only thief, so I think its best to develop that aspect first and foremost. Open Locks and Find/Remove Traps are the key abilities. For all your NPCs, their scores and abilities are reset when you get to BG2. It will be assumed that Immy dualed to mage. And Minsc and Jaheira will have slightly different scores. Only your PC will keep scores and experience total exactly as you left it.
    Imoen does not have the requirements to dual to cleric. The requirements are 15 minimum in the prime requisite(s) for your current class (Imoen qualifies because Dexterity is the prime req for thieves, and she exceeds that) and 17 in all primes reqs for the class you're switching TOO. So Immy can only switch to mage.
    Since your character is a fighter mage, and you have Dynaheir, I would think you're best off just letting Immy be your thief.

    The NPC's only get better stats once they reach baldur's gate 2. So you won't have to worry about losing out on any stat points on them.
  • HeindrichHeindrich Member, Moderator Posts: 2,959
    edited June 2013
    atcDave said:

    With the canon party, Imoen is the only thief, so I think its best to develop that aspect first and foremost. Open Locks and Find/Remove Traps are the key abilities. For all your NPCs, their scores and abilities are reset when you get to BG2. It will be assumed that Immy dualed to mage. And Minsc and Jaheira will have slightly different scores. Only your PC will keep scores and experience total exactly as you left it.
    Imoen does not have the requirements to dual to cleric. The requirements are 15 minimum in the prime requisite(s) for your current class (Imoen qualifies because Dexterity is the prime req for thieves, and she exceeds that) and 17 in all primes reqs for the class you're switching TOO. So Immy can only switch to mage.
    Since your character is a fighter mage, and you have Dynaheir, I would think you're best off just letting Immy be your thief.

    So Imoen will become a Thief/Mage in BG 2 regardless of what I do in BG 1?

    Also how does is lock-picking success rate calculated? Like Imoen now has 40% lock-picking, but it seems she is either able to pick a lock or not. Only on one occasion did I succeeded on the 3rd or 4th try. Mostly I cannot succeed and give up after 4 or 5 tries, or it works first time. I just wondered if it's ever worth keep trying if success rate for a really tough container was 2% or something, but it might contain something very good.

    Oh and I guess I will just focus her as a utility thief in BG 1. She is not bad with a bow either, but sadly cannot use long bows...
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689

    atcDave said:

    With the canon party, Imoen is the only thief, so I think its best to develop that aspect first and foremost. Open Locks and Find/Remove Traps are the key abilities. For all your NPCs, their scores and abilities are reset when you get to BG2. It will be assumed that Immy dualed to mage. And Minsc and Jaheira will have slightly different scores. Only your PC will keep scores and experience total exactly as you left it.
    Imoen does not have the requirements to dual to cleric. The requirements are 15 minimum in the prime requisite(s) for your current class (Imoen qualifies because Dexterity is the prime req for thieves, and she exceeds that) and 17 in all primes reqs for the class you're switching TOO. So Immy can only switch to mage.
    Since your character is a fighter mage, and you have Dynaheir, I would think you're best off just letting Immy be your thief.

    So Imoen will become a Thief/Mage in BG 2 regardless of what I do in BG 1?

    Also how does is lock-picking success rate calculated? Like Imoen now has 40% lock-picking, but it seems she is either able to pick a lock or not. Only on one occasion did I succeeded on the 3rd or 4th try. Mostly I cannot succeed and give up after 4 or 5 tries, or it works first time. I just wondered if it's ever worth keep trying if success rate for a really tough container was 2% or something, but it might contain something very good.

    Oh and I guess I will just focus her as a utility thief in BG 1. She is not bad with a bow either, but sadly cannot use long bows...
    Anything over 100% in lockpick, find traps, set traps are a waste.
  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 2,387

    atcDave said:

    With the canon party, Imoen is the only thief, so I think its best to develop that aspect first and foremost. Open Locks and Find/Remove Traps are the key abilities. For all your NPCs, their scores and abilities are reset when you get to BG2. It will be assumed that Immy dualed to mage. And Minsc and Jaheira will have slightly different scores. Only your PC will keep scores and experience total exactly as you left it.
    Imoen does not have the requirements to dual to cleric. The requirements are 15 minimum in the prime requisite(s) for your current class (Imoen qualifies because Dexterity is the prime req for thieves, and she exceeds that) and 17 in all primes reqs for the class you're switching TOO. So Immy can only switch to mage.
    Since your character is a fighter mage, and you have Dynaheir, I would think you're best off just letting Immy be your thief.

    So Imoen will become a Thief/Mage in BG 2 regardless of what I do in BG 1?

    Also how does is lock-picking success rate calculated? Like Imoen now has 40% lock-picking, but it seems she is either able to pick a lock or not. Only on one occasion did I succeeded on the 3rd or 4th try. Mostly I cannot succeed and give up after 4 or 5 tries, or it works first time. I just wondered if it's ever worth keep trying if success rate for a really tough container was 2% or something, but it might contain something very good.

    Oh and I guess I will just focus her as a utility thief in BG 1. She is not bad with a bow either, but sadly cannot use long bows...
    Yeah in game canon Imoen becomes a mage sometime late in BG or shortly thereafter. There are several ways of tampering with that (involving mods or editing programs), but since a medium level thief is adequate, and arcane magic will be more important in BG2, it usually works out well for me.

    I'm not exactly sure how lock picking success is calculated; but locks are rated for difficulty, and that compares to your skill level. So especially early in the game there will be some locks you just can never get, and others you'll get quite easily. Once you get Open Locks above 90% you'll hardly ever find a lock you can't open. I'm not really into thieves so I'm not sure if it gets harder on multiple attempts. I'm sure others will know a lot more than I do about it.

    And yeah, thieves don't use long bows, but Immy is great with a short bow!
  • HeindrichHeindrich Member, Moderator Posts: 2,959
    atcDave said:


    Yeah in game canon Imoen becomes a mage sometime late in BG or shortly thereafter. There are several ways of tampering with that (involving mods or editing programs), but since a medium level thief is adequate, and arcane magic will be more important in BG2, it usually works out well for me.

    I'm not exactly sure how lock picking success is calculated; but locks are rated for difficulty, and that compares to your skill level. So especially early in the game there will be some locks you just can never get, and others you'll get quite easily. Once you get Open Locks above 90% you'll hardly ever find a lock you can't open. I'm not really into thieves so I'm not sure if it gets harder on multiple attempts. I'm sure others will know a lot more than I do about it.

    And yeah, thieves don't use long bows, but Immy is great with a short bow!

    Hmmm... I guess 3 mages might be a bit Arcane overkill (albeit 2 will be dual/multi), ah well hopefully it will be manageable.

    Oh yeah, just to quickly check... I have reached Nashkel, it feels like the game is encouraging me to head towards the mines... but I wanna rescue Dynaheir asap so I can complete my party and she can start accumulating exp points that is currently being wasted on Xzar. Looking at the map, it is a rather big detour with no friendly inns along the way.

    Will a lv1 protag with lv 2 or 3 NPCs be able to mount a rescue before the Nashkel Mines? Or is the Dynaheir rescue meant to be done with a stronger party? Gnolls haven't been too difficult so far, but I guess their stronghold will be tougher than a few random raiding groups.
  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 2,387

    atcDave said:


    Yeah in game canon Imoen becomes a mage sometime late in BG or shortly thereafter. There are several ways of tampering with that (involving mods or editing programs), but since a medium level thief is adequate, and arcane magic will be more important in BG2, it usually works out well for me.

    I'm not exactly sure how lock picking success is calculated; but locks are rated for difficulty, and that compares to your skill level. So especially early in the game there will be some locks you just can never get, and others you'll get quite easily. Once you get Open Locks above 90% you'll hardly ever find a lock you can't open. I'm not really into thieves so I'm not sure if it gets harder on multiple attempts. I'm sure others will know a lot more than I do about it.

    And yeah, thieves don't use long bows, but Immy is great with a short bow!

    Hmmm... I guess 3 mages might be a bit Arcane overkill (albeit 2 will be dual/multi), ah well hopefully it will be manageable.

    Oh yeah, just to quickly check... I have reached Nashkel, it feels like the game is encouraging me to head towards the mines... but I wanna rescue Dynaheir asap so I can complete my party and she can start accumulating exp points that is currently being wasted on Xzar. Looking at the map, it is a rather big detour with no friendly inns along the way.

    Will a lv1 protag with lv 2 or 3 NPCs be able to mount a rescue before the Nashkel Mines? Or is the Dynaheir rescue meant to be done with a stronger party? Gnolls haven't been too difficult so far, but I guess their stronghold will be tougher than a few random raiding groups.
    Go get Dynaheir first, or Minsc will get dangerous. I believe the Neshkell timer is actually satisfied once you talk to the Mayor the first time. First level is fine.

    A lot of players would be fine with three arcane casters in BG2, but there may be reasons to rearrange your party too...
  • revaarrevaar Member Posts: 160
    If you are looking for more divine magic with the canon party, it is possible to dual class Dynaheir to a cleric if you feed her 2 of the 3 wisdom tomes, though this might happen a bit late. Dualled at level 6, Dynaheir will still have enough XP to get to a full level 8 in cleric. Watch out though, if you dual her at 7, she will not have enough XP to get her mage abilities back.
  • FlashheartFlashheart Member Posts: 125
    For some reason I've always disliked the canonical party. I don't tend to bring along any of the 5 canon members. They just seem a bit boring.

    I like Safana over Imoen; Kivan over Minsc; Branwen over Jaheira; Coran over Khalid; and Edwin over Dynaheir.

    In regards to Imoen's BG development (if I take her along) I will dual her to Mage when she reaches a level 4 thief. This enables her to get 100 in Find Traps, and she'll recover her thieving abilities much quicker.
  • HeindrichHeindrich Member, Moderator Posts: 2,959

    For some reason I've always disliked the canonical party. I don't tend to bring along any of the 5 canon members. They just seem a bit boring.

    I like Safana over Imoen; Kivan over Minsc; Branwen over Jaheira; Coran over Khalid; and Edwin over Dynaheir.

    In regards to Imoen's BG development (if I take her along) I will dual her to Mage when she reaches a level 4 thief. This enables her to get 100 in Find Traps, and she'll recover her thieving abilities much quicker.

    I don't have any special attachment to the canon NPCs, since I am totally new to the AD&D world. I just want to play canon for RP purposes, since I intend to continue into BG 2 and I know u get reunited with the canon characters at the start of BG2, so it makes more continuity sense. Once I get to BG 2, I will probably start to drop the canons. I find Minsc quite annoying, and I'm not a big fan of Khalid either.


  • HeindrichHeindrich Member, Moderator Posts: 2,959
    atcDave said:


    Go get Dynaheir first, or Minsc will get dangerous. I believe the Neshkell timer is actually satisfied once you talk to the Mayor the first time. First level is fine.

    A lot of players would be fine with three arcane casters in BG2, but there may be reasons to rearrange your party too...

    Well my party has come a long way since I opened this thread... I am 34/5 days in and Imoen has recently hit level 6. I have decided to dual her into a mage for RP purposes. However, is lv6 a good time to start the transition?

    Also when I do this, I guess she will lose all her thief skills... so what other means are there of opening locked doors, finding and disarming traps? For example I have just explored the Ulcaster Ruins, and Imoen was critical to my team not getting blown to pieces by the traps there... I'd have no idea how I could have got around them otherwise.
  • WispWisp Member Posts: 1,102


    However, is lv6 a good time to start the transition?

    If you are happy with her thief skills, level 6 is a excellent time to dual. Be aware that "canonically" (i.e., in BG2, sans mods) she dualled at level 7. Level 7 is also the latest you can dual her and still regain her thief skills, without breaking the TotSC XP cap.


    Also when I do this, I guess she will lose all her thief skills... so what other means are there of opening locked doors, finding and disarming traps? For example I have just explored the Ulcaster Ruins, and Imoen was critical to my team not getting blown to pieces by the traps there... I'd have no idea how I could have got around them otherwise.

    Some locks can be bashed, but bashing is rather ineffective (can't bash hard-to-pick locks). There is a level-2 priest spell for finding traps, but using it is super annoying, since the caster will stop what he/she is doing each round and find traps instead. Short of triggering the trap, there is no non-thief way of disarming traps (and no non-thief way at all of dealing with resetting traps).

    When you dual Imoen and have no second thief, the best way of dealing with the situation is simply to earn XP doing things where you don't need a thief, until Imoen has her skills back.

  • HeindrichHeindrich Member, Moderator Posts: 2,959
    Wisp said:


    If you are happy with her thief skills, level 6 is a excellent time to dual. Be aware that "canonically" (i.e., in BG2, sans mods) she dualled at level 7. Level 7 is also the latest you can dual her and still regain her thief skills, without breaking the TotSC XP cap.

    Hmmm... Imeon's thief stats are 60 for open locks, 90 for stealth (with boots), 45 for find traps and 50 for pick pockets... is that sufficient for endgame TotSC content where thief skills are required?

    I know her stats will be reset at the start of BG 2 anyway, so 'dualling her' a level earlier would be an insignificant deviation from canon for RP purposes.
  • WispWisp Member Posts: 1,102
    edited June 2013
    You really do want a thief with 100 in pick locks and find traps. There are some dungeons that are very heavy on that stuff.
    Edit: there are some potions that can help. Potions of Master Thievery grant a 40 point bonus to pick locks, last 3 hours and are not particularly rare. Potions of Perception boost pick locks and find traps by 20 points each, last 6 hours and not particularly rare. Potions of Power boost pick locks and find traps by 20 points each, last 4 hours, but are fairly rare. Increasing dexterity (there are potions for that too: Potion of Mind Focusing, +3 dex, last 12 hours and are not particularly rare) also helps.
  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 2,387
    edited June 2013
    I would get at least one more level, and put her points into Open Locks and Find Traps (the only skills I ever develop anyway) before dualing.
    When she does dual, I would recruit another thief temporarily (Coran is my next favorite). With the canon party I would replace both Minsc and Dynaheir. Then get them back when Immy gets her thief skills back. I guess the other option is to do some things that will generate experience without the need of a thief,, but you will need quite a lot.
    Post edited by atcDave on
  • HeindrichHeindrich Member, Moderator Posts: 2,959
    atcDave said:

    I would get at least one more level, and put her points into Open Locks and Find Traps (the only skills I ever develop anyway) before dualing.
    When she does dual, I would recruit another thief temporarily (Coran is my next favorite). With the canon party I would replace both Minsc and Dynaheir. Then get them back when Immy gets her thief skills back. I guess the other option is to do some things that will generate experience with the need of a thief,, but you will need quite a lot.

    Hmmm if seems that staying canonically correct here would be rather tedious, and force me to do other questionable things from a RP perspective.

    In that case I might as well just focus Imoen as a pure thief in BG 1 and deviate from the canon here. I already have Dynaheir and my PC for mage spells, so I didn't need to do this from a gaming perspective.
  • HeindrichHeindrich Member, Moderator Posts: 2,959
    Oh, that said, my PC is currently fighting as a warrior/archer mostly. He is a bit fragile against hard hitting enemies because he only has 15 Con, so just 24 hp at 4/4. I did find the Constitution manual recently and used it to boost his Con to 16, so he should develop at a healthier rate from now on.
  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 2,387
    Yeah I think leaving Imoen as a thief is the best course of action.

    Honestly, I just always use fighter/mages as archer/range types. It is certainly possible with the right buffs to make them very effective tanks. But I just let my tanks be tanks; and have a F/M do missiles and crowd control.
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    edited June 2013
    Locks and traps are on a threshold system, rather then a chance system (all other thief skills use a chance system, though PP and Hide/MS get additional hidden modifiers depending on the environment or the target in question). If you meet or exceed the threshold, you'll open the lock every time. If you're within 5 points of the threshold, you have a 50% chance of opening a lock/disarming a trap per attempt. 100 in each is required for Durlag's tower...in BG2, you only need about 80 max, if memory serves, since only 2 thieves are able to boost their skills through leveling in the sequel, and the other two are either borderline or completely useless, without potions or items.

    In PnP, they do work on a raw % chance system, where if you have 10%, you have a 10% base chance to open any lock, with some locks having modifiers to the roll, depending on how easy or hard to pick they are. But on the other hand, you cannot re-attempt to pick in PnP, until your open lock skill has been raised at least 1 point more then the last attempt, which is highly unlikely to happen.
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