tob and charname's adoption
storebrandpop
Member Posts: 1
This question was briefly brought up in a different thread that was locked, but what's the deal with retcon of Charname's adoption situation in Throne of Bhaal? It doesn't really make sense. It sounds like the High Priestesses of Bhaal were sacrificing all the children when they were born BUT according to forgotten realm timeline Charname is born ~20 years before the game, and Bhaal dies 10 years before the game. If the High Priestesses are killing babies, wouldn't the baby essence just go straight back to not-dead Bhaal?
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The priestesses sacrificed the children for their bhaal essence, Gorian and his group of harper friends came in to fight the people there for other reasons, them finding the children was more of a suprise. They couldn't take everyone (Sarevok) but Gorian took you and then left.
The timeline is an issue, but can be explained in several ways. One possible solution is that Bhaal, foreseeing as he was, started spreading the seed quite some time before his death. While "children" are mentioned at the temple, it doesn't necessarily mean "babies". They could be of many different ages, anything from toddler to teen, really. Another explanation would be that thanks to Bhaal's essence, his children did not develop normally. They may have grown up more quickly, or even much more quickly in the case of long-lived races like elves. Gorion may have deliberately obfuscated that fact and kept CHARNAME oblivious of it, either through clever lies or outright magical deception, to ensure a "normal" childhood/adolescence.
As for the different races... Bhaal was a god. Even with diminished powers, I'm sure it wouldn't have been terribly difficult for him to approach suitable females of different races in disguise. We know dragons can take humanoid shape, too, so that could solve some of the more... ehm... troubling biological issues. Also, while CHARNAME's mother has been shown as a priestess of Bhaal, that doesn't mean all mothers were. Surely Bhaal would have had an easy time with his followers, but he'd also have wanted to make sure not to put all eggs in one basket (yeah, terrible puns all over). He could have sired offspring all over the place, and then simply had his clergy steal the infants away after birth.
I'm not an avid follower of "official" FR lore and timelines, but I've never really found it too difficult to come up with reasonable explanations for the BG plot. There are some holes to be sure, but none so glaring that you couldn't explain them away without becoming too outlandish. And when in doubt, remember the One Rule: a wizard did it!
And I think the longer living races grow up as fast as others... Just get old slower.
@SapphireIce101 has the right of it. Bhaal has been sewing the seeds for his return for a long time.
I don't trust wikipedia too much, but this is a quote from there.
"More importantly, Bhaal foresaw his death and impregnated many mortal women - creating his heirs, the Bhaalspawn"
I can't seem to find any information that he would have done this for a long time.
Sarevok flat out says he was much older then you, around 8-10 years old at the time of the harper raid, and escaped immediately during the confusion, while you on the other hand were just a helpless infant (Winthorp flat out confirms that Gorion showed up to Candlekeep with you as a baby).
Of course that statement also doesn't make a whole lot of sense, since they also state that they were just about to start sacrificing when the harpers showed up....making it 10 years before Bhaal even died.
Keep in mind, ToB was VERY rushed, and it's pretty clear they didn't have enough time for fact checking to ensure the story lined up properly with previous lore.
There are different planes of existance, the material planes (e.g. Greyhawk, Eberron or the Forgotten Realms), and several others (Astral, Shadow, Elementals etc.). On some planes the time flows normally, while others have an accellerated or slowed flow of time.
Which could result in adult dragon Bhaalspawn, if they've lived the majority of their live on a plane with the accellerated time trait.
10th
They should have simply asked Ed Greenwood to write them into or out of a jam. He is the loveliest old hyper-dedicated D&D geek you may ever meet with a level of accessibility that allowed him to graciously converse for a half hour with the likes of me around the time TOB was in the works.
To be honest, I don't really see the whole mother issue as a particularly glaring plot hole. In fact, it's about how I pictured it even before ToB, sans the crazy gathering at the temple. Just some Bhaalite chick being Zeus-ed by Bhaal, nothing to see...
And I suppose you could consider them lovers (from a certain point of view).....thrusting his blade into her and becoming a daddy.
-Gorion knew the PC's mother and did have a relationship with her. This was probably made very difficult by her allegiance to Bhaal, but he saw something in her worth trying to redeem.
-Through his relationship with the PC's mother, Gorion and the Harpers learned about the ritual.
-The ritual itself happened before Bhaal even died. My guess is that it wasn't so much an attempt to resurrect him but rather to give him the power to be reborn immediately upon his death. In Bhaal's ideal scenario, that would mean that Cyric kills him during the Time of Troubles only to have Bhaal immediately be reborn and be able to take his revenge.
-Gorion showed up with the Harpers, the ritual was borked, the PC's mother died in battle.
-Gorion's letter was a Jedi truth where he focused on the goo he saw in the PC's mother and didn't want her allegiance to Bhaal known. His reference to Bhaal forcing himself on her is more his interpretation of the events, believing that Bhaal manipulated her and that she would have turned out very differently had she not become ensnared in his priesthood.
Essentially, Gorion is Obi-Wan. His words are true...from a certain point of view.
It's pretty clear he's blatantly lying about it, but feels it's the best possible choice, since you've got enough problems to deal with when/if you find out about your real father. The whole conversation feels like he's making it up as he goes (though it requires hindsight to see it, since you don't really have anything to base it on at first).
While I'm reluctant to use stuff from ToB, since it is pretty inconsistent, she does seem wholly evil in her conversations.
If they'd just omitted the part about them starting the ritual, we could've instead inferred (or they could've outright stated) that the temple site was just a holding area basically....bringing all the Bhaalspawn attached to their cell together and awaiting for the appointed time to begin the sacrificing....but by mentioning that the ritual of sacrifice (specifically her just about to sacrifice you to Bhaal) was interrupted by the harper attack, that is what messes with the timeline the most since it's way too early. And it can't have happened after the time of troubles, because you came to Candlekeep as an infant 18-19 years before the BG begins.
And if it didn't matter when they were killed, why let any of them grow up at all?