Nope. I dont think there is a special dialogue for attacking Adalon either.
I usually do the evil thing. I retrieve the egg and get the exp. When she teleports the party at the exit, I stab her in the back. This way, I get exp both for the mission and killing her.
I like being the "good" guy in Adalon's little mission just because you get foil the plans of so many others. And once they figure it out, they have an angry demon about to kill them.
She's silver, not white. White dragons are actually chaotic evil. Like the most insane and evil out of all the chromatic dragons.
And also the most stupid if I remember correctly. There may be a correlation.
Does Adalon really have an alternative though? She's quite pinned down, so good or not, I don't think she had many other chances. I usually don't mind, as the egg swap thing makes the entire Underdark chapter worth it. Oh, and Phaere. I actually like her.
Normally (not always as exist special subjects that flee the normality) dragon alignments follow:
Mettalic dragons (gold, silver, copper, brass, bronze...) are good aligned.
Chromatic Dragons (white, red, black, green...) are evil aligned.
Gem Dragons (sapphire, ruby, amethist, crystal...) are neutral.
There are speechs of Iron Dragons (Iron, nickel, tungsten...) being labeled as lawful dragons (being the other alignment variating) but i don't know about this.
The old D&D (where only existed the basic colored dragons) had another kind of rule. There Red and Black Dragons were chaotic, Blue, white and green were neutral and gold dragon were lawful.
(in that time didn't exist good or evil, only lawful, neutral or chaotic and lawful/chaotic were used to determine good and evil).
I really hope Dorn has something to say in that encounter. Seems like he would know a thing or two about getting rewards from a demon for doing evil stuff.
Killing Adalon is definitely supported by a particular evil themed plot line...a dick move, nonetheless.
Don't see why it's a jerk move. She "forces" you into getting her eggs even if you refuse, she threatens some of your parties members. Whether you think the Drow are evil or not, you're forced to killing them to get the eggs. She's just an all around jerk herself even if her species is considered "good" (I personally find her methods questionable). I can actually see someone who hates dragons killing her.
Yeah, it's a messy situation all around. Adalon knows the Drow aren't going to give the eggs back but she also knows trying to get them herself will doom them. She needs trustworthy intermediaries to retrieve them, but I'm sure you can guess how many of those she's liable to find in the Underdark. Your party is the only even slightly plausible method of getting her eggs back. Her only option, barring writing her eggs off as a loss (fat chance of that) is getting your aid, because she can't count on another group of capable adventurers falling into her lap in the narrow time span she has left. And begging is not something that any dragon seems capable of in D&D, so that leaves press-ganging.
Yeah, I find arguments based on alignment labels to be weak at best. Judge people by their actions, not what's written on their stat block.
That said, I think Adalon's actions are reasonably justifiable, if not exactly paladinly. Yeah, forcing the party into helping her is definitely not a nice thing to do, but she's trying to protect her eggs and doesn't exactly have a ton of options to do so. How many mothers do you know who'd be perfectly civil when their children are in mortal danger? And she is offering something in return, too. It's not as though she wants to threaten you into helping her, she's just so desperate she'll resort to threats if she has to.
I was never even angry with her. After all, consider some of the things a good CHARNAME does to rescue Imoen (even if you don't know she's a blood relation, her bio states she's still like a sister to you). Really, dumping on Adalon has always struck me as a good working definition of the pot calling the kettle black.
Hah I'm not angry with her either. The party I've currently got in BG2 is not based on alignment, but they're all demi-humans. I know Korgan and Jan don't care. But since Mazzy won't side with Bohdi, I worried that there might be a similar script here, too. If not, great.
I have no qualms in killing Adalon, if roleplay justify. My only regret in Baldur's Gate, that cover all dragons, is that's too easy to kill any dragon in the game...
c'mon dragons r' suposed to rock, even Irenicus avoid direct contact with Adalon and only stole her eggs instead of slay her for the drow, by the way, an entirely drow city avoid mess with Adalon.
The black dragon in the elven city is bribed by irenicus to work for him by a king's ransom, and even with the black he sweet talk his way, so i find to unreal to be able to kill 9 dragons too easy before the game end.
I would like to a vanilla option to make dragon fights deserve their epíc status P'nP describle they have.
I have no qualms in killing Adalon, if roleplay justify. My only regret in Baldur's Gate, that cover all dragons, is that's too easy to kill any dragon in the game...
c'mon dragons r' suposed to rock, even Irenicus avoid direct contact with Adalon and only stole her eggs instead of slay her for the drow, by the way, an entirely drow city avoid mess with Adalon.
The black dragon in the elven city is bribed by irenicus to work for him by a king's ransom, and even with the black he sweet talk his way, so i find to unreal to be able to kill 9 dragons too easy before the game end.
I would like to a vanilla option to make dragon fights deserve their epíc status P'nP describle they have.
Irenicus didn't kill those dragons because they made better obstacles and/or allies than corpses. He's a villain, he has to build up more resources than just five of his closest pals plus magical gear. Hell, Sarevok had five of his closest pals, magical gear, a bandit army, a massive trade coster, and a horde of dopplegangers by the end of BG1.
Also, I didn't find the BG2 dragons any harder/easier than what a P&P dragon is capable of, besides perhaps flight. But, if you're a DM and you're abusing a creature's ability to fly too much then you're doing it wrong, anyway.
I don't know @Schneidend, being oversides they should have bind and hit/kill abilities (bite), Otiluke's resilient sphere could easly simulate a dragon flight (even for vanilla game), it will make it invulnerable where it could use skills/magic on itself but not outside beings while he would be blocked in attack people (to exactly avoid abuse from flight).
A dragon taking too much heat should fly to heal or buff itself before it goes back to the fight.
A dragon rolls its damage like any other creature. Just because a creature's mouth is really big doesn't mean you can't narrowly avoid it or escape an otherwise lethal laceration with some cuts. And, yeah, that's how most CRPGs handle dragon flight, a phase where the dragon is temporarily out of reach. I wouldn't mind that. It'd give the party a chance to pop some heals and buffs, as well.
Arcalian
Member Posts: 359
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I mean, she's a majestic dragon and all that nonsense but... she still pretty damn forces the player into helping her >.<
I usually do the evil thing. I retrieve the egg and get the exp. When she teleports the party at the exit, I stab her in the back. This way, I get exp both for the mission and killing her.
Being a jerk does not mean you should die, but it does mean fewer people are going to mourn your death when it happens.
White dragons are actually chaotic evil. Like the most insane and evil out of all the chromatic dragons.
Does Adalon really have an alternative though? She's quite pinned down, so good or not, I don't think she had many other chances. I usually don't mind, as the egg swap thing makes the entire Underdark chapter worth it. Oh, and Phaere. I actually like her.
Normally (not always as exist special subjects that flee the normality) dragon alignments follow:
Mettalic dragons (gold, silver, copper, brass, bronze...) are good aligned.
Chromatic Dragons (white, red, black, green...) are evil aligned.
Gem Dragons (sapphire, ruby, amethist, crystal...) are neutral.
There are speechs of Iron Dragons (Iron, nickel, tungsten...) being labeled as lawful dragons (being the other alignment variating) but i don't know about this.
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The old D&D (where only existed the basic colored dragons) had another kind of rule. There Red and Black Dragons were chaotic, Blue, white and green were neutral and gold dragon were lawful.
(in that time didn't exist good or evil, only lawful, neutral or chaotic and lawful/chaotic were used to determine good and evil).
That said, I think Adalon's actions are reasonably justifiable, if not exactly paladinly. Yeah, forcing the party into helping her is definitely not a nice thing to do, but she's trying to protect her eggs and doesn't exactly have a ton of options to do so. How many mothers do you know who'd be perfectly civil when their children are in mortal danger? And she is offering something in return, too. It's not as though she wants to threaten you into helping her, she's just so desperate she'll resort to threats if she has to.
c'mon dragons r' suposed to rock, even Irenicus avoid direct contact with Adalon and only stole her eggs instead of slay her for the drow, by the way, an entirely drow city avoid mess with Adalon.
The black dragon in the elven city is bribed by irenicus to work for him by a king's ransom, and even with the black he sweet talk his way, so i find to unreal to be able to kill 9 dragons too easy before the game end.
I would like to a vanilla option to make dragon fights deserve their epíc status P'nP describle they have.
Also, I didn't find the BG2 dragons any harder/easier than what a P&P dragon is capable of, besides perhaps flight. But, if you're a DM and you're abusing a creature's ability to fly too much then you're doing it wrong, anyway.
A dragon taking too much heat should fly to heal or buff itself before it goes back to the fight.