Dragon Disciple and Armor spell

Raphite01

I'm trying to figure out how much benefit the Armor spell would be to my Dragon Disciple long-term.

My character started out with AC 5, because of -4 from Dex and -1 from Dragon Disciple bonus. When I cast Armor, it does down to AC 1, which is consistent with the spell description that the Armor spell is cumulative with Dex, and with shields. It's also apparently cumulative with class bonuses. So, is Armor always a flat -4 reduction of AC, regardless of other effects?

For example, as I gain AC bonuses from certain robes and other non-shield equipment, will Armor still remove an additional -4, or will it start to get redundant? Remember my AC will be continuing to drop with additional -1 AC bonuses from Dragon Disciple levels, which I assume will continue to be cumulative with the Armor bonus.

Thanks for any answers!

lunar

Armor spell sets your base AC to 6. Dragon disciple bonuses seem to be flat out AC bonuses, from what you've described.

Armors worn and armor spells set the user's base AC. All other bonuses are applied on top of them. Say, if a fighter/mage with 10 DEX (no bonus) casts armor spell (ac 6) and then dons full plate mail (ac 1), his AC will be 1, that of full plate mail's, armor spell's AC bonus is overriden by the bigger bonus of fpm's. If he takes off the full plate mail he will have 6 AC from the armor spell. (provided the spell's duration hasn't run out.)

Swashbucklers, kensais and dragon disciples seem to gain AC bonuses from their kit. Monks on the other hand, IIRC their base AC is changed as they level up, so bracers and magical armors and barkskin spells do not work well on them. I don't have the chance to test right now so it may not be %100 correct.

In your case, once you get the bracers of defense 6 or arch-mage robe, armor spell will be totally useless. Arch-mage robe will set the base AC to 5, better than armor spell, and bracers of defense 6 will set your AC to 6 as long as you wear them, which is the equivelant of a persistent armor spell. Wearing both items is meaningless as Arch-mage robe's superior AC will override bracers and armor spells. Shield spell sets AC to 4 and missile AC to 2 so is still useful. There are girdles which give bonuses to certain types of weapons, like girdle of piercing:elves bane (+3 ac vs missile and piercing) and there are those boots of avoidance that gives +5 ac vs missiles. These bonuses stack well. Blur spell and improved invisibility spell will give your enemies penalties to their attack rolls to hit you, so illusions are another way to better your AC.

ZanathKariashi

Yeah, monks get lower base AC, rather then a + bonus.

bbear

lunar said:

Blur spell and improved invisibility spell will give your enemies penalties to their attack rolls to hit you, so illusions are another way to better your AC.

Did they fix the AC bug w/ improved invisibility? Last time I checked the 4 AC bonus was not implemented.

BelgarathMTH

Improved Invisibility doesn't give an AC bonus, but rather subtracts four from opponents' hit rolls. It wouldn't show up in AC, but in the transcript of enemy rolls. It would be hard to see, since the rolls print out as a base roll plus the sum of all modifiers, such as "16+12=28, hit". Against a mage with Improved Invisibility, it would read "16+8=24, hit" (or, "miss", depending).

How effective that minus four to enemy rolls is for the mage is going to depend on what part of the game you're in. Early on, the minus four will make a big difference. Later, once those additive attack bonuses get really big, it won't give you much protection.

The best defense that comes from Improved Invisibility, in my opinion, is that it won't allow any enemy spells to be targeted directly on you.

Raphite01

Thanks all, esp Lunar.

I'd like him to gain some benefit from wearing armor like bracers for RP reasons, but also don't want long-term-functionless spells taking up my limited slots of known spells, so maybe I'll skip both Armor and Shield.

Dragonspear

I would advise taking shield.

The reason for this is that mages in BG and BG2 love to cast magic missile and use it as an interrupt on your casts (or rather if you get targetted it'll interrupt you). Although I'm fairly certain that bracers + shield spell would stack (it's been awhile). But definitely worth it just for the immunity to magic missiles in my opinion.

lunar

Dragonspear said:

I would advise taking shield.

The reason for this is that mages in BG and BG2 love to cast magic missile and use it as an interrupt on your casts (or rather if you get targetted it'll interrupt you). Although I'm fairly certain that bracers + shield spell would stack (it's been awhile). But definitely worth it just for the immunity to magic missiles in my opinion.

Best bracers in the game offer AC 6, best robes offer AC 5, while shield spell offers AC 4, and 2 vs missiles. So casting it in combat will improve your AC, and immunity to magic missiles is significant. However, there is also shield amulet sold in Nashkel carnival, which can be recharged by selling/buying it back.

Raphite01

If I carry the character over into BG2, he'll have access to even better bracers. Though of course you start out naked again in BG2, so Shield would have some temporary use again.

I don't mind scribing spells just for low-level utility with a mage, but it really irks me to take them as a sorcerer.

Dragonspear

@Lunar

My mistake, I forgot it was IWD2 where Shield counted as a shield would for armor (i.e. if you weren't using a shield IIRC then you got its affect). I had thought the same applied to BG but it appears I'm wrong.

Personally though I'd still take Shield for BGEE, but that's just me