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Fighter->mage dual-class options

Assuming that one wanted to play a fighter->mage dual-class character, and that one wanted to switch from fighter to mage at level 7 or 9, which of the following options would you recommend?

a. Kensai -> mage. (The 'kensage' seems to be widely recommended, but is it really the 'best'? If so, what weapon should the kensai focus on?)

b. Berserker -> mage. (I'm not sure it makes RP-sense, but going berserk with a quarterstaff seems appealing, as do the berserker immunities. Can a berserker-mage cast spells while berserk?)

c. Fighter -> mage. (Becoming a grand master of a ranged weapon seems like a sensible thing for a mage. Perhaps even darts, for the attacks/round?)

I've left out the wizard slayer, since it makes *no* sense RP-wise, and is a terrible kit in any case.

Comments

  • SpaceInvaderSpaceInvader Member Posts: 2,125
    Berserker/Mage.
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    Kensai is best since the only downside is irrelevant. You wouldn't be wearing armor anyway.
  • DexterDexter Member Posts: 253
    All three builds are powerhouses, but I wouldn't pick ranged weapons. Personally I prefer to load up on defensive magics and melee the big guys
  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,660
    Have you looked at the Swashbuckler Thief kit. Its like being a Fighter/Thief only you're just a thief. And thieves level up so cheaply you could probably go to level 10 and get the bonuses at that level before dual classing. Though you couldn't do that til BG2...

    Back to the fighter stuff, those are all good choices. It really depends on what you want.
    Kensai->Mage using one of the uber-staves would be world of hurt.
    Berserker has a lot of nice resists that can get you through some insta-lose situations.
    Vanilla Fighter is always a favorite.
  • CheesebellyCheesebelly Member Posts: 1,727
    I myself enjoyed a big deal a staff carrying Berserker>Mage, easily one of the easiest Solos I've had thanks to the rage immunities (which usually proof useful in mundane tasks). Dual flails is also a good possibility with the mage-killer Flail of Ages and the sturdy Defender of Easthaven (possibly replaceable with a Crom Faeyr or Belm) - but in general, everything here a Kensai>Mage can do too.

    If you solo the initial portion of Shadows of Amn, I am pretty sure it's possible to get to Fighter(kit)>Mage 9>10 by the end of the Copper Coronet sidequest, especially if you memorize lots of spells with money acquired. It's worth noting that soloing the circus at the promenade as a low level mage can be tricky though. But definitely go for level 9, if not 13 (but advisable to have a party then)

    Equipment-wise :
    Robe of Vecna, Vhailor's Helm, preferred gloves (Blind striking is a good start, weapon specialization a good finish, def not gloves of AC3 because Ghost and Spirit armor do just as good and better)

    Boots of speed, amulet of power (so you're well-protected against vampires), Ring of Earth Control (is it? The one in De'Arnise hold that gives 1 AC bonus) to be switched to Ring of Gaxx, Ring of Prot +1, into a +2 and eventually a +3 if at all possible.

    A strength Belt if not using Crom Faeyr, Boots of speed for that chasing and the cloak of your liking, I myself going with either Sewers Cloak or the one from the Underwater City.

    Kensai>Mage similar, removing the unwearable equipment, perhaps going for speed instead of pure damage, so Scimitars as weapon, possible Short Sword (Kundane) as a secondary, to harness Kai's effectiveness in the best way possible.


    In general - if I want a caster with some melee capabilities : Berserker>Mage
    If I want a pure hard hitter melee buffer : Kensai>Mage

    Never would I use a Kensai>Mage to just cast spells. Likewise, I wouldn't go for pure fighter because the loss of ranged weapon skills isn't that much of a big deal when you got fireballs and horrid wiltings.

    @FinneousPJ *COUGHRobeOfVecnaCOUGH* (denying the existence of possible bugs of course)
  • SpaceInvaderSpaceInvader Member Posts: 2,125

    Kensai is best since the only downside is irrelevant.

    No, it's not.
  • DexterDexter Member Posts: 253
    This has been discussed a zillion times, numbers included.
  • ThrasymachusThrasymachus Member Posts: 903
    Dexter said:

    This has been discussed a zillion times, numbers included.

    I'm sure it has been, but I'm specifically interested in switching at either level 7 or 9 (not 13), and I was not around for those other discussions.

    Also, I'm not primarily interested in which option is the most powerful overall (although I guess I'm somewhat curious about that). Rather, I'd prefer opinions on the different options (e.g., why one might go for a fighter->mage, even if it is not the most powerful option overall).

  • ThrasymachusThrasymachus Member Posts: 903
    CaptRory said:

    Have you looked at the Swashbuckler Thief kit. Its like being a Fighter/Thief only you're just a thief. And thieves level up so cheaply you could probably go to level 10 and get the bonuses at that level before dual classing. Though you couldn't do that til BG2...

    Yeah, that's another option I'm curious about. A swashbuckler->mage sounds like a lot of fun.
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455

    Kensai is best since the only downside is irrelevant.

    No, it's not.
    Care to explain?
  • SpaceInvaderSpaceInvader Member Posts: 2,125
    @FinneousPJ
    Sure :)

    I find the Berserker/Mage superior because:

    - at lower levels it can use armors, meaning it will be a lot more reliable till dual-class. At that point they will both use a Robe of Vecna. But obviously, in case of necessity, a Berserk can always equip an armor that fits the situation.

    - he can use gloves (Gloves of Weapon Specialization partially fills the damage gap)
    Note: with Gloves of Superior Weapon Specialization he reaches 10apr (2 base + 1 secondary weapon + 3/2 for Grand Mastery + 1/2 for the aformentioned gloves, all x2 due to Improved Haste), where a Kensai can reach that only by equipping Belm, Kundane or Scarlet Ninja-To (where he probably won't have Greater Mastery).

    - he can use helms. There are cool cheesy helms (like Vhailor's Helm)

    - gets Rage. Which, epic immunities aside, grants a +2 damage and thac0. Add that to the Gloves of Weapon Specialization and you get a +4. The same of a lvl14- Kensai.

    The speed factor of the weapon is not relevant for 2 reasons: 1) it isn't usefull unless you have to hit&run (mainly at lower loevels) 2) by the end of the game, all the weapons will be so enchanted that their speed factor will be around 0 anyway (and consider it can't be negative).

    Kai ability is nice, but it's not even comparable to Rage.
  • DexterDexter Member Posts: 253
    edited July 2013

    I'm sure it has been, but I'm specifically interested in switching at either level 7 or 9 (not 13), and I was not around for those other discussions.

    I think level 9 is better

    Rather, I'd prefer opinions on the different options (e.g., why one might go for a fighter->mage, even if it is not the most powerful option overall).

    One would go for F->M because is the most powerful option. The point is, you have an extraordinary fighter with awesome stats and gran mastery in weapon, not to mention good weapons and gear (and there are some awesome items for mages out there, right?). Now add a sequencer with prot from magic weapons, spell immunity:divination (you need SCS to do this) and improved invisibility. Later on time stop, summon planetar, alacrity, chain contingency...
    To my mind this combo rocks because it is a killing machine AND a 'make myself immune to all that lich has to offer' machine, and whether he is a fighter, kensai or zerker is not that important.

    I like a half-elf multi F/M the best. In top of all of the above, greater whirlwind and hardiness. And more importantly, romancing viconia
  • ThrasymachusThrasymachus Member Posts: 903
    Dexter said:

    And more importantly, romancing viconia

    Any human PC would be able to romance Viconia as well, no?
  • MagneticMagnetic Member Posts: 2

    Dexter said:

    And more importantly, romancing viconia

    Any human PC would be able to romance Viconia as well, no?
    Yes.
  • DexterDexter Member Posts: 253
    If she were a cleric/mage she would be perfect...
  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,660

    CaptRory said:

    Have you looked at the Swashbuckler Thief kit. Its like being a Fighter/Thief only you're just a thief. And thieves level up so cheaply you could probably go to level 10 and get the bonuses at that level before dual classing. Though you couldn't do that til BG2...

    Yeah, that's another option I'm curious about. A swashbuckler->mage sounds like a lot of fun.
    I really like the Swashbuckler Kit, because I don't really care about Backstabbing. Especially with the PC. If the PC dies, the game ends; leaving him surrounded by bad guys after he stabs one of them isn't a winning choice in my opinion. There are ways around it, but since you wanna go Fighter->Mage, you aren't even thinking about backstabs anyway, and a mage backstabbing when they could be using magic is just a tiny bit silly. Meanwhile being a thief with improved melee abilities means you free up a group slot for someone else, you don't NEED another thief. You can take care of all the necessary stuff yourself. Its a Kit very suited for dual classing to a mage.
  • AnaximanderAnaximander Member Posts: 191
    For fighter kits I'll only say wizard slayers seem best in multiples ... of the three in my 6 man melee heavy party, the lone WS dualed to Mage is just fine ... just select CN at character creation ... well yeah, not the best RP :D
  • FubbyFubby Member Posts: 189
    I think all of them, including WS are pretty good.

    Kensai/mage does unmatched damage

    Zerker has more HP, can wear more armour, and has his berserker stuff, but does less dmg.

    WS for innate MR and his strong mage killing passive thingy.
  • DexterDexter Member Posts: 253
    Wizard slayer is off the table here, i think. His limited gear is too much of a drawback in exchange for 9-13 MR and spell failure against a mage who usually is PfMW-ed.
    Ring of gaxx alone nets you that 10MR and plenty more. In my opinion much worse than ken, zerker, straight fighter and swash duals
  • FubbyFubby Member Posts: 189
    Dexter said:

    Wizard slayer is off the table here, i think. His limited gear is too much of a drawback in exchange for 9-13 MR and spell failure against a mage who usually is PfMW-ed.
    Ring of gaxx alone nets you that 10MR and plenty more. In my opinion much worse than ken, zerker, straight fighter and swash duals

    I dunno. WS is pretty underrated. You just need to hit, not do damage to get the passive proc. As long as you dont get the "Your weapon has no effect" message, you put some spell failure on. Once his PfMW wears off you can break stoneskins and mirror images and such, and break his ability to cast.

    Not the best, but not bad.
  • KalindorKalindor Member Posts: 51
    In vanilla I am partial to the Kensai, but that is a common (and ridiculed as powergaming) dual class choice.

    I'm going to throw in a plug for the Kit Revisions mod:
    http://forums.gibberlings3.net/index.php?showforum=168

    The current beta has the Fighters essentially complete and adds some depth to the class.
  • ThrasymachusThrasymachus Member Posts: 903
    Although I'm very much enjoying my current blade character, I'm nearly through BGEE.

    When the next patch comes out, I'm likely to try one of the following:

    (a) a swashbuckler -> mage (switching at level 10)
    [for a 'Grey Mouser' or 'Cugel' type of fellow]

    (b) a berserker->mage (switching at level 9)
    [for an 'Elric'-like soul-destroyer]

    (c) a berserker -> druid (switching at level 9)
    [for a shadow druid, turned up to 11 in the defense of grey owls!]

    I almost never play dual-class characters (in my BGEE games to date, I've been an avenger, a dragon disciple, and a blade), so this would be a rather different experience for me.

    I'm planning to run a group of four members: PC + Imoen + Viconia + Fighter-type (perhaps Kivan).

    Thoughts?
  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,660
    That actually works out well. You can roll up a Swashbuckler/Mage AND a Berserker/Druid and not double up anywhere. Swashie plays more like a thief than a fighter so you'd have two different game experience in the first game, then dual classing to different classes in the second continues the trend.
  • EejitEejit Member Posts: 55
    edited July 2013
    Dexter said:

    Wizard slayer is off the table here, i think. His limited gear is too much of a drawback in exchange for 9-13 MR and spell failure against a mage who usually is PfMW-ed.
    Ring of gaxx alone nets you that 10MR and plenty more. In my opinion much worse than ken, zerker, straight fighter and swash duals

    WS isn't as strong as the other two, but for me at least he's more interesting. For power-gaming he sure isn't ideal, but it isn't a "broken" kit.

    Very odd RP-wise to dual to mage, but you could maybe be "using their own weapons against them" or something.
  • DexterDexter Member Posts: 253
    edited July 2013
    I wish wizard slayers had more abilities. Compare them to berserkers, which virtually have no disadvantages. I'm not saying you cant enjoy a WS run or that they are useless, but this two kits are somewhat unbalanced
  • EejitEejit Member Posts: 55
    WS isn't really unbalanced for the game imo, but the others are *too* strong dialled.
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