BG 2 Weapon Proficiencies
Heindrich
Member, Moderator Posts: 2,959
I thought I'd start a new thread as opposed to add to my last one, which was getting a bit cluttered.
Anyways my Fighter/Mage is approaching his 9th fighter level, so I am expecting to have to make a decision regarding weapon proficiency fairly soon and the distribution of weaponry among my party members. I'd appreciate some guidance cos I don't wanna read up on some walkthrough/guide and get spoiler'd, nor end up training up to Grandmastery on a useless weapon class. I am not powergaming this, so I just want to check that my vague plans are not entirely stupid and get some general advice.
Charname: Fighter/Mage, current proficiencies are:
Scimitar: ++
Long Sword: +
Long Bow: ++
Single Weapon Style: +
I originally intended to specialise in scimitars because Charname is Eastern themed and because I wanted to use (and did use) Twinkle in BG EE.
I originally gave him Single Weapon Style because he fought primarily as an archer in BG EE and I didn't want to manually bow/shield swap for every battle. As his defensive magic improved, I am now beginning to use him more as a frontline warrior-mage and actually use his spells in battle. (Ghost/Spirit Armour, Mirror Image, Blur, Draw Upon Holy Strength, Stone Skin etc).
I'm rather uncertain about how to develop Charname in the future. Now that he has lost Twinkle, he's just wandering around with a mundane scimitar cos I'm too stingy to pay 1400 gold for scimitar +1. I just came across a very nice Blade of the Roses Long Sword, which is surprisingly cheap thanks to my discount at the Copper Coronet, and I have a sneaky suspicion that since this game is based in Western Faerun, it might be more sensible to specialise in Long Sword for the long run.
I have also heard rumours (i.e. saw glimpses of discussions on this forum) that dual wielding is very good, but then surely I won't be able to reach 5+ for both long swords and scimitars? Also won't the lack of shields seriously impact a frontliner's survivability?
So yeah, long swords? scimitars? both? or perhaps scimitars and katanas (to really to go town with the Eastern theme), or sword and shield style? Ahh so many options! So many unknowns!
Anyways my Fighter/Mage is approaching his 9th fighter level, so I am expecting to have to make a decision regarding weapon proficiency fairly soon and the distribution of weaponry among my party members. I'd appreciate some guidance cos I don't wanna read up on some walkthrough/guide and get spoiler'd, nor end up training up to Grandmastery on a useless weapon class. I am not powergaming this, so I just want to check that my vague plans are not entirely stupid and get some general advice.
My party consists of:
Keldorn: He starts with a nice two-handed sword, I see no reason to change it any time soon so he will probably just specialise in 2-handers. He will get any nice crossbows I find.
Minsc: He already has a wide variety of weapon proficiencies. Now that I have another 2-handed sword user, I plan to find a nice mace or hammer for him at some stage, and use a shield with it. For now he is doing alright with the +2 2-handed sword I found in the starting prison. He will get any nice long bows I find.
Jaheira: I'm not sure about her. From RP perspective, I'd prefer if she kept using Quarterstaff, but from gaming pespective, I suspect I'll have to give her a mace/club and shield as well for survivability. She has a sling, but I don't like slings in general, I think it's a silly weapon.
Yoshimo: He started with a nice katana, so I might as well continue with katanas. He's primarily just a support archer in battles, so it was convenient that I found a nice Tuigun bow for him from the slavers at the Copper Coronet. (Will use Imoen to replace him when I get her back anyway so not too important.)
Aerie: rather irrelevant for a discussion about weapons. She has a sling, but as I said, I don't like slings...
Keldorn: He starts with a nice two-handed sword, I see no reason to change it any time soon so he will probably just specialise in 2-handers. He will get any nice crossbows I find.
Minsc: He already has a wide variety of weapon proficiencies. Now that I have another 2-handed sword user, I plan to find a nice mace or hammer for him at some stage, and use a shield with it. For now he is doing alright with the +2 2-handed sword I found in the starting prison. He will get any nice long bows I find.
Jaheira: I'm not sure about her. From RP perspective, I'd prefer if she kept using Quarterstaff, but from gaming pespective, I suspect I'll have to give her a mace/club and shield as well for survivability. She has a sling, but I don't like slings in general, I think it's a silly weapon.
Yoshimo: He started with a nice katana, so I might as well continue with katanas. He's primarily just a support archer in battles, so it was convenient that I found a nice Tuigun bow for him from the slavers at the Copper Coronet. (Will use Imoen to replace him when I get her back anyway so not too important.)
Aerie: rather irrelevant for a discussion about weapons. She has a sling, but as I said, I don't like slings...
Charname: Fighter/Mage, current proficiencies are:
Scimitar: ++
Long Sword: +
Long Bow: ++
Single Weapon Style: +
I originally intended to specialise in scimitars because Charname is Eastern themed and because I wanted to use (and did use) Twinkle in BG EE.
I originally gave him Single Weapon Style because he fought primarily as an archer in BG EE and I didn't want to manually bow/shield swap for every battle. As his defensive magic improved, I am now beginning to use him more as a frontline warrior-mage and actually use his spells in battle. (Ghost/Spirit Armour, Mirror Image, Blur, Draw Upon Holy Strength, Stone Skin etc).
I'm rather uncertain about how to develop Charname in the future. Now that he has lost Twinkle, he's just wandering around with a mundane scimitar cos I'm too stingy to pay 1400 gold for scimitar +1. I just came across a very nice Blade of the Roses Long Sword, which is surprisingly cheap thanks to my discount at the Copper Coronet, and I have a sneaky suspicion that since this game is based in Western Faerun, it might be more sensible to specialise in Long Sword for the long run.
I have also heard rumours (i.e. saw glimpses of discussions on this forum) that dual wielding is very good, but then surely I won't be able to reach 5+ for both long swords and scimitars? Also won't the lack of shields seriously impact a frontliner's survivability?
So yeah, long swords? scimitars? both? or perhaps scimitars and katanas (to really to go town with the Eastern theme), or sword and shield style? Ahh so many options! So many unknowns!
Post edited by Heindrich on
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Comments
Anyway, your choice looks fine. I however gave Jaheria weapon proficiens in Sling and Scimitar, that way she can help in the frontline and off-tank if the occasion demands it.
it doesnt matter thb if you pick long swords or scimitars, you will find many great weapons in both of them.
I would however skip Katanas, I dont remember many of them in BG2 ( but then again I was 14 when I played BG2 so maybe my memory sucks)
However, in BGEE2 im sure they will fill the game with more weapon choices.
Of course, there's also arguments to be made for training a Warrior in some of the exceptional blunted weapons in the game to put them to best use...
As for longswords, there are a plethora of excellent choices, and I'd say at least 4 of them are better than the best scimitar.
Personally, I'd go dual-wielding longswords or dual-wielding longswords and scimitars (You might as well since you have those points invested already.)
What with Minsc's rangerness, he should very obviously dual-wield if he's not using two-handed weapons. However, there will be no shortage of good two-handed swords for you, perhaps with the possible exception of +3 weapons in the short term (but +3 weapons are admittedly a big deal). It's no disaster to have both Minsc and Keldorn use two-handed swords.
As has been said, Jaheira as basically limited to Scimitars. There are a few not-bad clubs, but it's not a strong weapon group. However, the first +3 scimitar comes pretty late into the game. In the short-term, clubs probably outrank scimitars, but then they lag behind something bad. Having two scimitar-users is probably more of a disaster.
Good weapon types you may want your protagonist and/or other party members take an interest in include axes, flails and halberds. All three are excellent weapon groups. Longswords are not bad, but they aren't outstandingly good either. There are some really good late-game bastard swords, but you will barely find one up until about mid-SoA (or later) and then it's still nothing very inspiring. Maces are alright, mostly because they are carried by one highly situational weapon. Katanas are very hyped, and there is perhaps a katana or two worth using, but then there is the finding them. Warhammers are so-so. There are worse choices, but they have low damage and are a bit short on strong contenders. Shortswords have one or two that make good off-hand weapons, but they are not main-hand material unless there is literally nothing else to choose from.
The rest (spears, daggers, ranged weapons etc.) is pretty yawn-worthy, mostly notable for their high enchantment levels and when you can obtain them (e.g., it's relatively easy to get +3 or +4 daggers).
Scimitar and shield is the best option for Jaheira, but if your PC is scimitars I would go with club for her instead.
Minsc I would stick with the two handed sword. There's plenty of good two handers in the game, even if you add Keldorn to your party, you can easily have both characters using them.
Sling is an excellent choice for Aerie (and its a missile weapon that allows for shield use). I would also give her flail proficiency, as there's an excellent one available early on.
And yeah, I would definitely use Yoshimo just a space holder until I got Imoen back.
Only thing I would add, I would replace Yoshimo with Nalia for a while and do a few of her quests. She has a nice story and some good side quests (more than just what she recruits you for). But be sure to switch her back out before you go for Immy.
Long Sword
Bastard Sword
Flail (Best weapon in the game is a flail)
Two handed swords
Halberds
Warhammers
Axes
There are some amazingly good weapons there.
Scimitar : Some of the best weapons in the game are Scimitars. [Spoiler] Belm gives you +1 APR [/spoiler]
Bastard swords : Once you get to mid-end game and especially ToB (Watchers keep) You'll be finding some amazing Bastard swords.
Long Sword :
They are cheap
They are many
They are useful
You find them everywhere
You can't go wrong writh longswords as you'll find some great ones at the start of the game and there are some fantastic ones end game aswell.
Flail : The best and most useful weapon in the whole game is a flail
Two handed Swords : There are some great two handed swords out there, but if you're a paladin you'll find the most awesome two handed sword in the game pretty early aswell. So Keldorn or a CHARNAME paladin wll be very happy with Two handed Swords.
Halberds : They aren't used that much and people don't talk about them but they are AWESOME and you'll find some great halberds in the game.
There is a halberd vs Dragons that is insanely good
You can get a halberd right from the start with +1 STR
You can get halberds with elemental damage which is great and goes through magic buffs
You can get a ridicolously good halberd end game that you got 10% chanse to automatically kill someone with, even dragons and other tough shit.
Halberds are just great, they really are.
Warhammers : There are some great warhammers out there and you'll want one of these or a flail when fighting against some annoying golems.
Axes : You can get some amazing axes very early in the game that has elemental damage and will help you against most annoying things like trolls and the like.
There are good weapons for most all proficiency, but you can't go wrong with the ones i mentioned.
The archery was always intended as a stop-gap for his early career before he learnt how to throw fireballs and other useful mage spells in battle, so now his development will focus towards melee, with the option to stand back and hurl magical dps/cc.
With regards to flails... (and slings for that matter) My dislike for them is mostly for RP reasons and how I view the characters in my mind's eye. I mean the sling is such a crude and primitive weapon that it was obsolete shortly into the Bronze Age by bows of all types. For gaming purposes, Aerie does carry a sling for now so she can still do something once her spells run out, but I won't be buying any magical slings or ammunition for her.
After reading through your comments I've decided to not worry too much about weapon proficiencies. I came across a random (epic) BG2 Let's Play series on youtube. If that guy somehow got through his first playthrough with his Wild Mage with truly 'average' stats. (8, 15, 11, 17, 10, 16), then I figure my imported charname (16, 18, 16, 19, 15, 15) should be able to cope without metagaming too much.
That said, I have taken your advice onboard. I will forget about shields in the long run and start training charname in dual-wielding. I've bought the Blade of Roses for now so charname can actually hurt all the creatures immune to mundane weapons, and I will likely have him dual-wield scimitar and long sword in the long run. I have no idea how dual-wielding works in D&D... do you get to attack with both weapons? (say perhaps 2.5 attacks with mainhand and 2 attacks with offhand in 1 round?) If so I can see why dual-wielding would be awesome even with the THAC0 penalty for offhand.
Since shields are useless I might as well keep both Keldorn and Minsc on two handers, especially as...
people have soloed BG2 basically with every class - so how are they worthless again? Now sure, some people use certain scrolls and bizzare tactics, but still.
I would say pick whichever partymember and weapon you like or look best. every partymember, yes every partymember, benefit you. No partymember is useless at all. I wish certain people in the "rpg community" could just say that and that is superior, then instead say that and that sucks, when it in fact doesnt... but in comparsion with other choices it does.
So take shield for ex, they are def not useless or horrible. Its just that if your 18/18/18 and you dual wield, you will kill things extremly fast - which in some way destroy the actual gameplay (to me that is).
In fact, going dual wield and using characters like you do, mage/fighters its almost like playing it on Easy.
I would in fact suggest anyone who start up with BG not to read the boards and get hooked to these OP classes.
I mean, the classes and partymembers I used, and did very good with, people claim sucks and yet I did very well with them- and enjoyed those npc's with me.
I do however feel that whilst I don't need to min/max and metagame, it is important to learn the game mechanics as I play, which reflects the charname learning about the world around him and improving his capability and knowledge as he progresses in the story. I think you can play cheesy, play dumb or play smart... I hope to play smart, which is why I ask so many questions, and why each time I come across a new scroll or monster I haven't seen before, I refer to the following resources...
http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/258273-baldurs-gate-ii-shadows-of-amn/faqs/11334
http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/258273-baldurs-gate-ii-shadows-of-amn/faqs/13870
http://www.dotd.com/mm/MM00000.htm
I only bought it because my mom got a new pc from work ( a very good gaming pc for its time ) so I picked up Pc Gamer here in Sweden and saw great reviews for the game and everyone in school talked about it - so I bought it.
The only real good advice, which I think everyone needs to know is that, you need partymembers who are skilled at diffrent things.
I mean, if you follow the old-school formula of tank,healer and mage, you can fill the rest 3 slot with anything.
And speaking of the Flail, the Flail of ages, I must have missed it in BG2 on my playthrough
btw, a bit off topic - in BG1, im at the city baldurs gate now, investigating the iron throne and helping out flaming fist, im level 5 almost 6, when am I supposed to climb that Durlag Tower, or rather when did you?
Anyway without spoilers, let's just say that your investigations in Baldur's Gate will lead you to return to Candlekeep for a short stay. I went to Ulgoth's Beard shortly after leaving Candlekeep. That's the village where all the TotSC quests are based. Although you don't need to go to Durlag's Tower through Ulgoth's Beard, I'd highly recommend it so that the things you do in the tower makes a bit more sense. There's also a few other quests in Ulgoth's Beard that are a bit less time consuming than the tower. (You should not interpret that as easy though).
Anyway the tower was the last thing I did, after doing all the other Ulgoth's Beard quests, and just before doing the endgame quests, that ... well ... ended the game. So I had well over 120k xp by the time I entered.
If you want the goodies from the tower earlier and metagame it a bit, you can already do the upper levels now (go up from the ground floor). You can even do labyrinth lv 1 and 2 if you have a thief with 100 for finding traps, but I'd recommend leaving the final 2 levels until just before the endgame, cos there's some really tough encounters in there.
Example: You dualwield scimitars, and you have grand mastery in them, meaning you'd do 4 APR, 3 with main and 1 with off-h.
This means that for an off-h, you're always better off with one heavy on the passive bonuses, like immunities, stat-increases or extra APR.
If you'll be dual-wielding longswords and scimitars, get a good longsword for your main, and the Belm for your off-h. Personally I'd pick a certain other longsword for the off-h as well, despite the common consensus that the Belm is the best off-h in the game (not counting the monk/UAI-only one from the special vendor).
But what arguably really makes dual-wielding shine are the passive bonuses some weapons have. In fact, the best defensive off-hand item in the game is not a shield, it's a flail (a different flail). Good passive bonuses is something that characterises all the popular off-hand weapons. The fact you also gain extra APR is almost just gravy. Some of these weapons are so good in the off-hand that it scarcely matters if they don't inflict any damage.
That said, it would be suboptimal to not equip Aerie with a shield, so I guess they do have their uses after all (just not in the hands of anyone doing melee fighting, because even taking single-weapon style and leaving the off-hand free confers better bonuses [twice as many criticals]).