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[Spell Mod] BG1-style Entangle

MortiannaMortianna Member Posts: 1,355
edited July 2013 in General Modding
Is there any way to extract the BG1 version of the Entangle opcode (154) and use it to replace the BG2 version that unfortunately plagues my game? I really like the vanilla BG version, both for its graphics and because it only affected enemies, and would like to implement it in BGEE, if possible.

Also, if it can be done, what should I name the file before I paste it into my BGEE override folder?
-------------------------
*Update: Since the original BG Entangle spell uses the same web entangling animation, I edited the colors in the .bam file to dark green and altered the BGEE .pro file so that it only effects enemies. I also got rid of the hideous, bright green glow that envelops those who are entangled and removed the plant/tentacle appendages that flail about during the spell. Enemies still have to save vs. spell every round while in the AoE or remain entangled, but your party may move about freely.

I've attached the RAR file containing the modded files. Simply copy and paste the files into your BGEE Override folder.

Thanks to @Wisp for the help.

Post edited by Mortianna on
ShadowHunterlunarelminsterCrevsDaakmeaglothSCARY_WIZARDRavenslightThacoBellCharlestonianTemplar
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Comments

  • WispWisp Member Posts: 1,102
    You can probably make it affect only enemies by setting bit 6 at 0x200 in entang2.pro.

    Here's a few lines of TP2 to do it. It can be installed by pasting this into a WeiDU-mod template I posted a number of months ago in this forum.

    COPY_EXISTING entang2.pro override
    WRITE_BYTE 0x200 THIS | BIT6
    BUT_ONLY
    I don't know about the graphics. It's possible you could import the relevant BAMs from BG1, but I don't know which that would be. The BG1 spell looks at least partly hardcoded.

    MortiannaCrevsDaak
  • MortiannaMortianna Member Posts: 1,355
    @Wisp Thanks! I'll give it a try and see what happens.

    elminster
  • MortiannaMortianna Member Posts: 1,355
    Aside from the animations, the differences between this version and the vanilla BG version is that it only affects enemies. The vanilla BG version entangles everyone but the party, including any innocent bystanders, tavern patrons, squirrels, etc., and the BG2/BGEE version, as we all know, entangles everyone in the AoE.

  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,400
    edited July 2013
    Did you change the animation, the vanilla entangle animation is bugged on Ipad and causes horrible slowdowns when cast. So it is pretty much unusable. Your mod may just have fixed the spell for Ipad. And it seems it just needs to be dropped on override (or portraits folder) it might just work. I need to try this. :-)

    Now if you could only mod the cloud type spells to use the older, less good looking bg1 animations, that would be perfect. Cloud spells cause slowdowns on Ipad too, and eliminates their use in the game. Web spell is the only stationary spell that can be cast without dragging the game's frame rate down to single digits.

  • MortiannaMortianna Member Posts: 1,355
    @lunar I'm sure it's the BG2-style animations that causes all of the lag. This version is free of all of that and shouldn't cause any problems since it's basically an alternate form of Web in terms of animation (like the BG1 version). And, yes, all you need to do is drop the files in your Override folder. Let me know how it works out!

    As for the cloud spells, I don't know if the animations imported from BG1. Unless someone else does it, I'll look into it when I have more free time.

    lunarelminster
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,956
    Responding to a bit of an old post here. :)

    I'm working on a BGEE Tweaks pack that will include restoring some of the ways certain things operated in BG1. I will be incorporating Mortianna's fixes into it. In fact the reason I'm posting is because I believe I solved the problem (if it was a problem I'm not sure) of enemies needing to continually be checked every round or else they are free of the entanglement. With what I've posted here this shouldn't be the case anymore.

    TuthRavenslightMortianna
  • MortiannaMortianna Member Posts: 1,355
    @elminster I don't think it was ever a problem. Shouldn't enemies need to make/fail their saves every round to be unentangled/entangled, just like Web and similar duration-based AoE spells?

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,956
    edited July 2014
    Mortianna said:

    @elminster I don't think it was ever a problem. Shouldn't enemies need to make/fail their saves every round to be unentangled/entangled, just like Web and similar duration-based AoE spells?

    In the original game if they failed the save initially (and there was only one save its not like web where you get checked every round) they would be entangled for 1 turn.

    MortiannaThacoBell
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,369
    Mortianna said:

    @elminster I don't think it was ever a problem. Shouldn't enemies need to make/fail their saves every round to be unentangled/entangled, just like Web and similar duration-based AoE spells?

    Yeah I like that behavior - it suggests that maybe you can hack your way out and move a few feet, but might get caught up again, because the creeping vines are still trying to do their work.

    If you save once and are free for good, what does that represent? You can walk right next to your friend, and the magic vines just ignore you for some reason? Eh, I guess it could be that they just spring up and then freeze in ace, and whoever gets caught gets caught. That would also make it tactically different from Web, Grease, etc.

    But, it already was tactically different, so I'm not sure it's a necessary change.
    Better to create more tactical difference between Web and Sleeping Cloud or whatever it's called...

    MortiannaGrammarsalad
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,956
    edited July 2014
    There is a much larger difference between stinking cloud and web because Stinking Cloud makes a check against death/poison vs web's check against spells. Plus stinking cloud renders you unconscious (sleep effect). Tactically that means that elves, especially elf warriors, are very resistant to its effects.

    CrevsDaak
  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,136
    edited July 2014
    elminster said:

    Tactically that means that elves, especially elf warriors, are very resistant to its effects.

    Uhm, no.
    The Sleep & Charm resistance Elves and Half-Elves get is given *by* the spell, and Stinking Cloud is a gas that knocks you down, and Elves don't get resistance to it per PnP, so it's the same whether the affected creature is an Elf or a Human.

    elminster
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,369
    How many elves do you fight in these games? Tactically there is almost zero difference between Stinking Cloud and Web. Of course using a one-time check is not a good change, because then it would be tactically identical to Hold Person.

    Eh admittedly such discussion is off-topic for this thread, and more of a concern for a mod like Spell Revisions. Are you listening @Demivrgvs‌? :)

  • DemivrgvsDemivrgvs Member Posts: 315
    edited July 2014
    @subtledoctor, have I been summoned to answer a specific question? :D

    My 2 cents (a wall of text actually):

    ENTANGLE: should not be party friendly, and allow a save each round similarly to Web. Within Spell Revisions, creatures within Entangle's AoE also move at half speed as per PnP (no save is allowed for this penalty).

    STINKING CLOUD: as @CrevsDaak says, elves resistance to charm and sleep are applied within the specific spells themselves. Many different effects in this game use sleep opcode (e.g. even a dragon's wing buffet) and to prevent elves from becoming immune to all that stuff they were not made immune to sleep opcode itself. On a side note, within SR I made this cloud work as per PnP, replacing "sleep" with a "nauseated" disease-like effect (creatures affected cannot attack or cast spells, but can still move).

    WEB: within vanilla the difference between Stinking Cloud and Web is pretty much that the latter is better in every way because of its -2 save penalty and hold effect (which is superior to sleep for many reasons).

    Within Revisions mods I've done a lot of small refinements to these 3 spells but I'll spare you guys the detail unless you are really interested.

    elminsterGrammarsalad
  • MortiannaMortianna Member Posts: 1,355
    elminster said:

    Mortianna said:

    @elminster I don't think it was ever a problem. Shouldn't enemies need to make/fail their saves every round to be unentangled/entangled, just like Web and similar duration-based AoE spells?

    In the original game if they failed the save initially (and there was only one save its not like web where you get checked every round) they would be entangled for 1 turn.
    I forgot about that (obviously). Having the single save has its pros and cons, but making it party-friendly balances them out, IMO. Being a purist and all, I'm glad to you made the appropriate edit to bring the spell back to its vanilla BG1 version.

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,956

    How many elves do you fight in these games? Tactically there is almost zero difference between Stinking Cloud and Web. Of course using a one-time check is not a good change, because then it would be tactically identical to Hold Person.

    I was thinking more using your own parties elves (particularly kivan or viconia) but I had forgotten that the resistance is given for each spell.

    If you get them with a Hold person it doesn't let them cast spells, attack, and gives automatic hits against them. Not exactly the same at all even on a tactical level (since you still have to worry about enemy ranged characters and mages). Now Web getting this behavior would be tactically more along the lines of hold person, but even then you'd still have to worry about getting caught it in yourself.

    TJ_Hooker
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,369
    No - what I'm saying is, if Web or Stinking Cloud acted like the BG1 version of Entangle, where it just causes beings inside the radius to make a check and thereafter the web or gas stopped having any effect, would be functionally very similar to Hold Person. Which means that would not be a good way for a prospective modder to distinguish them. Yes, HP has the advantage that you can cast it among your own allies without fear, but I think that's not such a big difference.

    Now, a spell that had continuous saves like Web/SC, but only affected enemies, would be very interesting and very powerful. I suppose that's what Teleport Field and Sphere of Chaos do. It might be an interesting way to distinguish Confusion from Chaos (their extreme similarity always bothered me - Bioware was so unimaginative!) Make enemies save every round for Chaos, do more chance to be affected, BUT also some chance to become unaffected again. (It's called 'Chaos' after all!)

    Oh man, I'm totally adding that into my game.

  • TJ_HookerTJ_Hooker Member Posts: 2,438
    edited July 2014
  • RavenslightRavenslight Member Posts: 1,609
    I just wanted to thank @Mortianna @Wisp and @elminster for their work on this tweak. I never understood why they felt the need to nerf one of the good, party friendly, spells a low level druid had at her disposal. I certainly never considered the class overpowered. I personally do miss the surrounding animation that was removed, but that’s a small price to pay to have it work closer to the vanilla game version. I am currently trying the version Elminster provided.

    elminsterMortianna
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,956
    Its not 100% the BG1 entangle from a visual standpoint but mechanically I believe it works the same. What you've downloaded here may not be my most updated one however.

    Ravenslight
  • RavenslightRavenslight Member Posts: 1,609
    @elminster
    Is there somewhere I should be looking for the most updated version? I’m really appreciating what this adds back to my game.

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,956
    Yea try this one. @Ravenslight

    I think the main difference is that it improves the saving throw. In the original/TOTSC entangle didn't have that +3 to save penalty. The description said it did but mechanically it didn't.

    Ravenslight
  • ALIENALIEN Member Posts: 982
    edited March 2015
    @elminster Does this still works for BG:EE/BGII:EE ?

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,956
  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member, Moderator Posts: 4,000
    This was a great idea, I missed the old version. A little confusing as to what the version does or which one here to use as we have two versions, one by @Mortianna and one by @elminster. What are the differences in appearance, color, and function in the two?

    Mortianna
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,956
    edited March 2017
    I think the best way to see that (bearing in mind that it has been 3.5 years since these were published) would be to try each for yourself.

  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member, Moderator Posts: 4,000
    edited May 2017
    @elminster Tried these but dd not like the non existent surrounding animation. Hard to tell where the AofE was. Would be nice to have the same effect but see the vines or green web animation. Half asleep at the time so forgot to keep the original. Would you or anyone else send me the original entangle, pretty please. :)
    it was also weird in that the first version posted never had a time limit on the spell, at least in BGv2.3. So, like all cloud type spells in effect I could never rest. The last version posted I tried, however, did seem to expire as normal and allow resting(whewwww).

    Post edited by Zaghoul on
  • ALIENALIEN Member Posts: 982
    @elminster @Mortianna Unfortunately it doesn't work for BG1:EE 2.3. Quick and easy update possible?

    Ravenslight
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,956
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