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Dwarven Fighter/Thief Build Help

After much deciding, I have chosen a Dwarven Fighter/Thief multi-class as my character for a co-op playthrough of BG:EE. My partner in crime is playing a Cleric/Mage. I'm looking to be a front-line fighter/scout and take care of traps and locked doors.

What would you suggest for weapon proficiency? First time through the game so I'm unsure of the available equipment.

Any other help/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Comments

  • Urd1enUrd1en Member Posts: 84
    edited July 2013
    1. Choose a Half-Orc race for your Fighter/Thief. 19 Str gives your +7 to damage, thus your backstub strikes will be awesome.
    2. Long sword as a melee weapon. Warscona +2 is pretty easy to get at the beginning (Nashkel mines).
    3. Long bow as a ranged. Composite bow +1 (+3 damage) is available at Beregost, Feldpost Inn.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited July 2013
    With your melee weapons you want to choose a weapon that you can backstab with. So avoid two handed swords, flails/morningstars, warhammers, axes, spears, halberds, maces, and bastard swords. At least until you give yourself weapon proficiencies that you can use for backstabbing.
  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,366
    long swords + dual wielding or long sword + bow pretty good
    i like dwarf for more ST than orc
  • matiezmatiez Member Posts: 2
    I really like the idea of Dual-wielding longswords.
  • mch202mch202 Member Posts: 1,455
    edited July 2013
    I love to dual class Berserker/Thief dual wielding short sword and long sword, that way you can do piercing and slashing damage..

    Post edited by mch202 on
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    edited July 2013
    A half-orc is the worst F/T....F/T have easy to roll stats since you're going to max str/dex/con anyway, and the difference between 18/00 (+3 hit, +6 damage) and 19 (+3 hit, +7 damage) is 1 damage, that isn't multiplied. At the cost of a HUGE amount of thief skill points, which takes them 7 levels to catch up. Even if you consider the 1 dex penalty, a Dwarf still ends up with 30 more thief skill at creation (spread between locks, traps, set trap, and a dab of DI) meaning they can spare some points to stealth related skills earlier for actual backstabbing without being a load, and their saves are flat out superior to anything a half-orc can touch.

    A single class thief is the only thing they do kind of well, since the difference between plain 18 (+1 hit, +2 damage) and 19 (+3 hit, +7 damage) is rather huge, and it's most of the game before you can get a boost to 19 via items or powers.

    Even Barbarians are better done by other races, since the rage gives more bang for your buck if you have less then 19 str.

    And Kensai, wizard slayers, and plain fighters benefit from the benefits shorty saves or elf benefits more then they do slightly easier to roll stats.



    Anyway....

    Dual-wielding is pretty good. Though need at least ** in two weapon style before you attempt it. Or you're going to miss A LOT.

    Only weapons available to a single class thief can be used to backstab. Keep that in mind.

    Though going for single weapon or two-handed style doubles your crit chance when using a single or two-handed weapon (melee only) and can make for some extreme backstabs.

    You definitely want to prioritize locks first and foremost. There's lots of good gear that you simply can't get unless you have a good lockpick skill (70+ at first, then split between traps and Move Silently until about 70, then take traps to 100 (you definitely want 100 before attempt Durlag's tower..after that...do whatever, probably more move silently). Which you can sell to get the shadow armor to help making stealth easier. (the boots of stealth are free (just have to find them), and also a MASSIVE boost to your stealth skills).
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,853
    edited July 2013
    Urd1en said:

    1. Choose a Half-Orc race for your Fighter/Thief. 19 Str gives your +7 to damage, thus your backstub strikes will be awesome.

    NO.

    Dwarven Fighter/Thief kicks Half-Orc's butt. 18/xx Strength isn't much less than 19 Strength depending on what you roll, and the Strength Tome will put you at 19 Strength eventually any way. 20 Strength on the other hand is basically useless, which is all you'll have to show for your Half-Orc in the end.
    Then you also get Shorty Saving Throws, which kick Half-Orc's butt. At 18 or better Constitution, +5, AKA, 25% better chance to evade Poison/Paralyze/Death, Spells, and Wands.
    Also you get bonuses to your Thieving abilities based on race, whereas Half-Orcs don't get any such racial bonuses. This more than makes up for the Dexterity penalty that is incurred for choosing Dwarf.

    Dwarven Fighter/Thief > Half-Orc Fighter/Thief. If you want to role-play, then go ahead and pick the other, but if we are talking pure power, Dwarf wins. THE END.
  • WispWisp Member Posts: 1,102
    edited July 2013
    Quartz said:

    whereas Half-Orcs don't get any such racial bonuses.

    They do. But they gain a total of 45 points from being half-orcs [1], compared to the 85 points dwarves get, so they still come out behind, unless dwarves are limited to 16 DEX (I forget), in which case a half-orc with 18 DEX will come out ahead.

    1. And if anyone feels like gainsaying me, please take the time to first create your own half-orc thief with 13–15 DEX. Then feel foolish and hang your head in shame.
  • TJ_HookerTJ_Hooker Member Posts: 2,438
    edited July 2013
    Wisp said:

    Quartz said:

    whereas Half-Orcs don't get any such racial bonuses.

    They do. But they gain a total of 45 points from being half-orcs [1], compared to the 85 points dwarves get, so they still come out behind, unless dwarves are limited to 16 DEX (I forget), in which case a half-orc with 18 DEX will come out ahead.

    1. And if anyone feels like gainsaying me, please take the time to first create your own half-orc thief with 13–15 DEX. Then feel foolish and hang your head in shame.
    It's the same for humans (45 points, distributed the same way). Although I guess it's not much of a bonus if every other race gains as much or more. Maybe that's where the idea that they gain no bonus thieving skills comes from? So whoever made the table at PlayItHardcore (at least, that's where I got the idea that half-orcs and humans received no bonus thief skills) decided that those 45 points were the baseline, and calculated the bonuses for the other races based on how much higher they were than that.
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    Because they literally gain no bonuses....there's just the base stats all theives get (well..technically they are supposed to get +5 to find trap over a human (and -15 to read languages...which isn't implemented at all)...but it's not implemented...., and really wouldn't change the assessment AT ALL if it was)
  • WispWisp Member Posts: 1,102

    Because they literally gain no bonuses....there's just the base stats all theives get

    Maybe that's how it works in PnP, but it's not how it works in BG2. Rangers get a racial bonus to stealth, bards gain a racial bonus to PP. If you script your way around the GUI, you see that all races gain varying bonuses, regardless of class.

    It's not wrong to say humans and half-orcs gain nothing compared to the other races. You could set halfling as your baseline and state the other races' skill mods as bonuses or penalties compared to that, and it would be equally valid. But it is wrong to say that humans and half-orcs gain no bonuses to their skills, because they patently do.
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    edited July 2013
    No they do NOT. You have no clue what we are even talking about it.

    Humans ARE the baseline. Every thing is the game (and DnD as a whole) is built around it's relation to a human's base stats, because they have no innate bonuses or penalties.

    Open your eyes. Each class gets a set base amount of skills, and your racial bonus is added at creation on top of it, then you can spend points, or in the case of rangers/bards your stealth/PP is spent automatically for you. Humans and half-orcs only get the base amount because they have no racial bonuses AT ALL. they get no other bonuses to any skill from race. (though as mentioned above, HO should technically get a +5 bonus to find trap over a human, but isn't implemented).

    and then elf, half-elf, or shorties theif skill bonuses are applied (Elves have +15, Half-elves have +30, shorties have +40 spread to a variety of different stats). Then Dex is applied. It works EXACTLY the same in BG as in PnP (except for the thief kits...they're wrong because they use the vanilla's thief's base skills at creation, which are very different from kit to kit), except some of the bonuses are wrong (like Half-elves having a bonus to MS at all, or half-orcs missing their +5 find trap).
  • WispWisp Member Posts: 1,102
    edited July 2013

    No they do NOT. You have no clue what we are even talking about it.

    Humans ARE the baseline. Every thing is the game (and DnD as a whole) is built around it's relation to a human's base stats, because they have no innate bonuses or penalties.

    Okay, fair enough. Humans being the baseline is the prevailing convention. I don't care enough about it to continue arguing. Just be sure to mention that all races start with a non-zero amount of points in certain skills (rather than implying they don't and e.g., dwarves gain 85 points more than humans and half-orcs.) More to the point, I wouldn't say dwarves get "HUGE amount" of points over a half-orc (and that dwarves still have 30 more points after DEX is taken into account is just factually incorrect). 40 points is a non-trivial amount, but hardly huge. Dwarves lose out on a potential 30 points merely from being limited to 17 DEX.
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    edited July 2013
    No....the difference between 17 and 18 dex is 5 hide and 5 MS....that's it. Hence why the dwarf still has a 30 point advantage over a half-orc (almost 2 levels worth of skill point advantage) and the other shorties blow it away completely (though Halfling are disadvantaged due to their str penalty since they can only reach plain 18 (which is only a +1 damage benefit over 17)...but in BG2 that no longer matters due to the plethora of easily acquired str boosting items). And even the elves and half-elves offer genuine benefits in addition to extra thief skills, instead of slightly stronger start out that becomes inferior for the rest of the saga.

    In the very short term, a single class thief half-orc has a slight backstabbing advantage, at the cost of haivng to sacrifice utility to focus on it, while that advantage is completely nullified in the long run due a lack of tangable benefits such as bonus points (takes until 16 thief before the starting points no longer matter), or save benefits or other resistances that can't be easily replaced.

    As people have mentioned several times in the threads asking to nerf Dorn....what is the point of making a Half-orc except for having 19 str at creation? And is really only a bonus if you're a non-fighter.


    They don't, because they only get the base line stats, hence there is no bonus, while non-human/Half-orc DO get bonuses over the baseline.
  • WispWisp Member Posts: 1,102

    No....the difference between 17 and 18 dex is 5 hide and 5 MS....that's it.

    Going from 17 to 18 DEX increases all skills but Detect Illusion by 5 points, for a total of 30. You get another 30 points from going to 19 DEX. You gain slightly less from going to 20 DEX, since MS and HIS start receiving smaller bonuses, but it's north of 20 skill points for every point of DEX all the way up to 25 DEX.

    After DEX is taken into account dwarves have 10 points over half-orcs.
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