Improved Cities

Delvon

I wanted to start a thread to discuss some of the changes that could be done on cities. I tried my best to find one, but to my chagrin, was unable to do so.

One of the things I always found immersion breaking in the series, was the empty cities. Sure there are people here and there, but overall, places seemed empty. A large city like Baldurs Gate seemed empty, or at least quiet in my opinion. What I would want are more populous places. People walking around, talking etc. Limitations exist to how much can be done, but even people walking around would lighten up places a lot. Also inns housing the same people day in, day out seems ridiculous... Sure some dwarves are drunks, but why are they there all the time?! Plus, it would be interesting (albeit annoying at times I'm sure, but would help with immersion imo) to have inns be full at times. People come and go, yet there's always room to house 6 people. Maybe only have room for some? Or none at all at times? Just a suggestion.

So how could the cities be improved my fellows?

mch202

I think BG1 handled pretty well with the city experience, they might add some more people in the streets but that never bothered me really. Empty streets is common problem in games.. even in the GTA the streets are empty compared to a real life city.

The only game I can think of who handled good on this aspect is Assassin's Creed.

Space_hamster

More sprites eat up CPU speed.

Delvon

mch202 said:

I think BG1 handled pretty well with the city experience, they might add some more people in the streets but that never bothered me really. Empty streets is common problem in games.. even in the GTA the streets are empty compared to a real life city.

The only game I can think of who handled good on this aspect is Assassin's Creed.

That's true and was definitely something that threw off of gta a bit (I still love the series!). Assassins Creed was the very opposite! Streets with more people would give these places some gravity and meaning! Houses also having people move in and out of them would be a significant improvement in my books. Especially those damn inns!!

Emulating realistic cities I find would be a bit much. What I'd want to see is more life! For the good characters there's then more on the line, and for the evil more to decimate!

Space_hamster said:

More sprites eat up CPU speed.

But would it really be such an increase to maybe double the sprites? I don't know much about the performance changes it would realistically bring about though (someone correct me if I'm completely ignorant!). If gta and Creed survive admirably with dynamic populations, why wouldn't bgee? I doubt current computers would grind to a halt with even a doubling of the sprites. Maybe my request is a bit marginal and out of the scope! Obviously the populations of these cities should be fit properly to scale. So that moving around the cities wouldn't be annoying as hell given the path finding abilities of bgee.

Shin

Definitely agree that this is an area that can be improved immersion-wise. Also room for more funny encounters, like the woman trying to squeeze money from the Talosian guards by claiming they're the father to her little girl, or - of course - the scimitar-throwing Habib Khalid Achmed Allafif.

Delvon

Shin said:

Definitely agree that this is an area that can be improved immersion-wise. Also room for more funny encounters, like the woman trying to squeeze money from the Talosian guards by claiming they're the father to her little girl, or - of course - the scimitar-throwing Habib Khalid Achmed Allafif.

Definitely made me laugh when I first stumbled upon these events! Might be a bit much to expect a lot of dynamic events, but a livelier city (and towns) would make the world a lot more interesting. Random fights, guards moving around, children, people people talking etc.

I also loved the inclusion of the statues you could get erected in SoA.

Has there been any indication of a place house being possible to acquire? I remember getting a lot of books to read into an abandoned house, as a collection, and means to immerse myself better.

Shin

I would think the closest you get to a house of your own are the stronghold areas (BG2 that is).. haven't heard anything else about it for BG1.

Delvon

Shin said:

I would think the closest you get to a house of your own are the stronghold areas (BG2 that is).. haven't heard anything else about it for BG1.

Yeah, that's kinda what I was asking about.. But strongholds are just too huge to maintain! A little shack in Baldurs Gate would be just fine... Maybe there's already a mod for this?

Communard

Delvon said:

Shin said:

I would think the closest you get to a house of your own are the stronghold areas (BG2 that is).. haven't heard anything else about it for BG1.

Yeah, that's kinda what I was asking about.. But strongholds are just too huge to maintain! A little shack in Baldurs Gate would be just fine... Maybe there's already a mod for this?

Kill one of the Necromancers, move in, job done...

Delvon

Communard said:

Kill one of the Necromancers, move in, job done...

Fair enough, that should work. I faintly remember some of the stuff that I stored disappearing though. So would there be object permanence in a place that isn't officially "yours"

Communard

Delvon said:

Communard said:

Kill one of the Necromancers, move in, job done...

Fair enough, that should work. I faintly remember some of the stuff that I stored disappearing though. So would there be object permanence in a place that isn't officially "yours"

IIRC everything that is in containers is permanent, anything just left on the floor disappears (so long as it is not a quest item). So it should be fine so long as you keep the place tidy

Delvon

Now you're sounding like my mom!! Thanks though! I'll kill some necros then and ultimate home makeover that sh*t!

NWN_babaYaga

With some good use of day/night duties you can add some flavour to the city areas. But most of the eventually added citizens should have a little purpose. Even he/ she is just a towncrier, beggar or a simple night watchmen.

FrozenDervish

Things that could improve cities.

1. More interactable npcs with unique dialogue.

2. More quests inside the towns/cities

3. More easter eggs, limited time encounters, one-time encounters.

4. More towns and cities in general. (Baldur's Gate was only accessible for the last 15 minutes of the game and there was almost nothing to do once you got there.)

5. Have more joinable unique npcs in the towns.

Space_hamster

More small talk and rumors in the pubs would be fun.

TulioM

Well, for storing stuff i was using the copper coronet containers, i never thought about owning a house...

Heinrich

heh heh, I remember playing Baldur's Gate 2 and getting the De'Arnis stronghold for the first time. Being the little hoarder I was, I placed my rare weapons on the weapon racks, I put my books and scroll cases in the library, placed all my extra potions in a cabinet among others. I felt like a virtual king until I found a walkthrough that taught me how to play and beat the game properly.

But yeah, a stronghold of some kind would be a nice feature to have in Baldur's Gate 1. Just a place to rest and store items for later...

GrandeC

Easier navigation of Baldur's Gate proper would be nice. I know the interior wall is important for lore, but it's sure a pain when you get stuck on the wrong side of it.

Delvon

NWN_babaYaga said:

With some good use of day/night duties you can add some flavour to the city areas. But most of the eventually added citizens should have a little purpose. Even he/ she is just a towncrier, beggar or a simple night watchmen.

This would be the best obviously! Having people do random things and have a purpose that's somehow distinguishable would work. Maybe more thugs (even individual ones) trying to rob people, some men stumbling from the inns back home and so forth.

GrandeC said:

Easier navigation of Baldur's Gate proper would be nice. I know the interior wall is important for lore, but it's sure a pain when you get stuck on the wrong side of it.

This was always a pain in BG and BG2. The path finding was atrocious, where the mentioned inner wall always blocked my people. Or with Beregost some of the nooks and crannies with the houses blocking everyone. I couldn't comfortably command my group to move around longer distances due to blocks.

Is there any mention of improving the path finding in BG:EE? So far I haven't seen anything..

Heinrich said:

heh heh, I remember playing Baldur's Gate 2 and getting the De'Arnis stronghold for the first time. Being the little hoarder I was, I placed my rare weapons on the weapon racks, I put my books and scroll cases in the library, placed all my extra potions in a cabinet among others. I felt like a virtual king until I found a walkthrough that taught me how to play and beat the game properly.

But yeah, a stronghold of some kind would be a nice feature to have in Baldur's Gate 1. Just a place to rest and store items for later...

I totally did the same in BG2! It was a bit too huge for my taste though. I'd only need a shack with the option to rest my group (this would be hilarious with just one bed in the house, and 6 people), keep a small library (one or two bookcases) and a chest or two. Nothing bigger than that. Then you could have some thieves coming in while you sleep and try and steal stuff, and you'd roll to see if you woke up. Then kill them or spare their lives (which could come to bite you in the ass, or reward you in some situation where you need the person). But I digress.

Are the cities going to be touched upon graphically? As in, some of the shotty buildings being redone to fit the graphical updates? I'm kinda hazy on the front of what exactly is going to be updated...