Dwarf tank

Chack

Hello everyone,

Long time reader first time poster.

I am planning on creating a dwarf tank from bgee to (hopefuly) bg2ee. In my previous bg2 runs, i uaually went with a dwarf berserker (battlerager i think) or a barbarian for the damage reduction. I think that the new dwarf kit looks pretty cool, same damage reduction as a barb with better attacks with the 4 pips. Also, come bg2 it is a strong candidate for crom faeyr.

I would like to get some feedback or comparision between this three classes from someone more experimented in them. Also, do you think it better to start wil warhammers up to 4 pips (and 2 in dual wielding) and then develop the axes, go the other way or something in between.

Thanks in advance!!! (English is not my native language, sorry for any typo)

elminster

Barb still has better attacks because he can get +4 to strength with his rage. That is all I can say on them as I've never really been that big into them (its just a personal playstyle thing). Same with berserker really.

That said I think the fact that Dwarven Defenders get a 5% damage resistance in BGEE (Barbs don't start getting any until level 11) is pretty nice. On top of their innate ability to absorb 50% damage (which they can get 3 uses/day out of in BGEE). Personally I would go with warhammers because of the availability of the +2 warhammer early on. The difference between Mastery and High Mastery (3 vs 4 stars in a weapon) is 1 damage (and a speed factor but thats not hugely important). So instead I would go 3 stars into two weapon style and 3 into warhammers. First things first though is to get the 3 *'s in two weapon (once you can) just to make your thaco better with it.

CaptRory

Just a quick comment, I'd point out that if you want him to Dual Wield only the weapon in his primary hand really matters. So you could give him the Crom Faeyr to whack guys with, and stick that flail that gives damage reduction in his off hand. You could use a shield but straight up damage reduction is the kit's thing and AC becomes less useful at the end of the second game and in Throne of Bhaal. Anyway, my point is that only being able to stick two dots in flails doesn't really make a difference if you just stick it in your offhand for the bonus.

That said, there's absolutely nothing wrong if you want to dual wield axes and hammers or use a weapon and a shield or whatever. You also might want to throw one dot into axes regardless and make use of throwing axes as your ranged component.

Dexter

axe of unyielding (main) and crom faeyr (left) is another great combo for a dwarf warrior character

zur312

aou is pretty medicore for dps purpose crom is actually better

CaptRory

Doesn't the axe have an instant death effect? I guess you could switch them around depending on whether what you're fighting can be insta-killed or not.

elminster

CaptRory said:

Doesn't the axe have an instant death effect? I guess you could switch them around depending on whether what you're fighting can be insta-killed or not.

Only in its upgraded ToB form.

zur312

insta kill is pretty medicore too

elminster

zur312 said:

insta kill is pretty medicore too

10% may be only 10% but with multiple attacks per round on a more difficult enemy it does matter. It only has to work once after all.

zur312

why hit multiple times for insta death when you can just deal more damage with weapon and kill them quickly? also aren't bosses immune?

elminster

zur312 said:

why hit multiple times for insta death when you can just deal more damage with weapon and kill them quickly? also aren't bosses immune?

Its a +5 weapon. As a main hand weapon it actually has the possibility of doing more damage than Crom Faeyr (6-13 for Unyielding vs 7 - 11 for Crom Faeyr). Before its upgrade the ability to do damage favours Crom Faeyr (you'd get +2 Thac0 with Crom Faeyr also). In any case if the weapon doesn't kill an enemy with its damage its ability might.

zur312

crom is much better
last is medium damage look what is at the bottom
Storm Star 1d6+6, +1d6 elec 5% chance of chain lightning 13+
Club of Detonation 1d6+5, +5 fire 30% chance of +15 fire, 5% chance of fireball 13.5(19.05)
Gram the Sword of Grief 1d10+5 10% chance of 2d12 poison 10.5(11.8)
Flail of Ages 1d6+6, +10 elemental 19,5
Staff of the Ram 1d6+12+1d4 18
Impaler 1d6+13 16,5
Foebane 2d4+5, +4 magic +6 to undead, shapeshifters, extra-planars 14
Crom Faeyr 2d4+3, +5 elec 13
Spectral Brand 1d8+5, +1d6 cold 13
Angurvadal 1d8+5, +1d4+1 fire 13
Carsomyr 1d12+6 +6 to chaotic evil 12,5
Staff of Striking 1d6+9 12,5
Ice Star 2d4+4, +1d4 cold 11,5
Ravager 1d10+6 +3d6 damage (save) 11,5
Spear of Withering 1d6+4, +4 poison 11,5
Warblade 1d12+4 10,5
Psion's Blade 1d10+5 10,5
Dragon's Breath 1d10, +5 elemental 10,5
Runehammer 2d4+5 +4d4+10 to undead 10
Purifier 2d4+5 +5 to chaotic evil 10
Axe of the Unyielding 1d8+5 9,5

Chack

Thanks for all the replies. I guess it is a solid char.

I was planning on using both, aou and cf, i guess i will have to try changing tjem from main to off hand, but that is still in the not so near future.

Are there any real interesting axes in bgee? I was thinking in starting with the 2 pips in warhammer and dual wielding and then getting 2 in axes, as there is only one good hammer in bgee i can think of, and in soa, it is way easier to get 2 good axes at the begining. But i don't remember any good axes in the first game (usually playes with sword and bow users).

CaptRory

There is an axe in Durlag's Tower that you can also throw and have it return to you. I don't recall much about it.

zur312

it is cool

throw into mages go melee when casting spell is interrupted

elminster

zur312 said:

crom is much better
last is medium damage look what is at the bottom
Storm Star 1d6+6, +1d6 elec 5% chance of chain lightning 13+
Club of Detonation 1d6+5, +5 fire 30% chance of +15 fire, 5% chance of fireball 13.5(19.05)
Flail of Ages 1d6+6, +10 elemental 19,5
Impaler 1d6+13 16,5
Foebane 2d4+5, +4 magic +6 to undead, shapeshifters, extra-planars 14
Crom Faeyr 2d4+3, +5 elec 13
Spectral Brand 1d8+5, +1d6 cold 13
Angurvadal 1d8+5, +1d4+1 fire 13
Ice Star 2d4+4, +1d4 cold 11,5
Warblade 1d12+4 10,5
Psion's Blade 1d10+5 10,5
Dragon's Breath 1d10, +5 elemental 10,5
Runehammer 2d4+5 +4d4+10 to undead 10
Purifier 2d4+5 +5 to chaotic evil 10
Axe of the Unyielding 1d8+5 9,5

I stand corrected on the damage front. Still isn't worth it to get Crom. Too much loss to various useful strength belts.

CaptRory

Let's not get into the "Is Crom worth it or not worth it?" discussion again.

Chack

I agree, whether or not you find crom worth it is a matter of personal taste (i see pros and cons for both sides). In my particular case, it's for the concept of the dwarven defender, an expert in axes and warhammers, so i think that it makes sense to build it.

elminster

Chack said:

Thanks for all the replies. I guess it is a solid char.

I was planning on using both, aou and cf, i guess i will have to try changing tjem from main to off hand, but that is still in the not so near future.

Are there any real interesting axes in bgee? I was thinking in starting with the 2 pips in warhammer and dual wielding and then getting 2 in axes, as there is only one good hammer in bgee i can think of, and in soa, it is way easier to get 2 good axes at the begining. But i don't remember any good axes in the first game (usually playes with sword and bow users).

Like CaptRory said there are a few interesting returning throwing axes you can get. One in Durlag's and the other underneath Candlekeep. Otherwise the Golden Axe (+1) has a 10% chance of casting dispel on target and there also an Axe +2 that you can get. You can find both in Baldur's Gate (the city). Also for early gaming you can buy an axe +1 in the Feldpost Inn as well as throwing axes +1 in the beregost smithy (they weight a lot less than regular throwing axes).

Chack

Cool, then i guess i wil make the 2-2-2 approach, starting with hammers and dual wielding and then getting to axes. As a fighter, i don't think the THAC0 will be any problem during the game.

revaar

It's also worth noting that if you start out with two *'s in axes, you can pick up 5 +1 throwing axes in beregost for only 75 gp, and you can then use them in melee mode for cheap early game magic weapons.

mylegbig

Personally I'd use a shield. It's not optimal, but it just doesn't seem like much of a "defender" when you're going crazy with two weapons.