Do some BG 1 petty tricks and small exploits still work?

DeathKnight

Well, i was wondering if export-import tactics, converting a multiplayer save to singleplayer and vice versa as per your needs, or import-export a plethora of items using the expansion's save game to upstart characters through multiplayer still works. No cheats, only those exploits. Powergamer here, not cheater.

amftron

lol "powergamer"

Heindrich

Exploits are essentially the same thing as cheats, because it was 'not intended' by the game devs and you are doing something 'outside the rules'.

For example if you abuse a bug to take advantage of game mechanics to create 100,000 gold, how is that different in practise to just going to Shadowkeeper and cheating in 100,000 gold? You might as well just save yourself the time and cheat. :P

Twilight_Fox

Still working.

elminster

Heindrich1988 said:

Exploits are essentially the same thing as cheats, because it was 'not intended' by the game devs and you are doing something 'outside the rules'.

For example if you abuse a bug to take advantage of game mechanics to create 100,000 gold, how is that different in practise to just going to Shadowkeeper and cheating in 100,000 gold? You might as well just save yourself the time and cheat. :P

It depends on the exploit. Some, like the "talk to person, attack them, talk to person, attack them" are comparable to cheating. Whereas others like reloading a save after failing a pickpocket are cheesy certainly but not on the same level as cheating.

Heindrich

elminster said:

It depends on the exploit. Some, like the "talk to person, attack them, talk to person, attack them" are comparable to cheating. Whereas others like reloading a save after failing a pickpocket are cheesy certainly but not on the same level as cheating.

I'm not sure I can agree with that. It's kinda a 'borderline' situation, but if I had to say one way or the other, I'd still call it cheating, but a minor cheat. It's like breaking the law. You either do it or not, you can't 'kinda' break a law. But of course, you can break the law by drinking-driving, or murder.

The reason I say that's cheating is that again you are doing something that is unintended, and essentially makes a major character ability entirely pointless (pick-pocket). Again, if u were so determined to successfully pick-pocket an item from somebody, why not just cheat it in with SK since the end result will be the same?

That said, with the picket-pocket situation, the game isn't implemented ideally, where the risk of getting caught is too high and, more importantly, the consequences too serious to makes a pick-pocketer reasonably effective without resorting to save-loading. I guess if play a thief who focused on pick-pocketing, I'd probably allow myself a fixed number of save-loads, like '3 attempts or give up'.

elminster

Heindrich1988 said:

elminster said:

It depends on the exploit. Some, like the "talk to person, attack them, talk to person, attack them" are comparable to cheating. Whereas others like reloading a save after failing a pickpocket are cheesy certainly but not on the same level as cheating.

I'm not sure I can agree with that. It's kinda a 'borderline' situation, but if I had to say one way or the other, I'd still call it cheating, but a minor cheat. It's like breaking the law. You either do it or not, you can't 'kinda' break a law. But of course, you can break the law by drinking-driving, or murder.

The reason I say that's cheating is that again you are doing something that is unintended, and essentially makes a major character ability entirely pointless (pick-pocket). Again, if u were so determined to successfully pick-pocket an item from somebody, why not just cheat it in with SK since the end result will be the same?

That said, with the picket-pocket situation, the game isn't implemented ideally, where the risk of getting caught is too high and, more importantly, the consequences too serious to makes a pick-pocketer reasonably effective without resorting to save-loading. I guess if play a thief who focused on pick-pocketing, I'd probably allow myself a fixed number of save-loads, like '3 attempts or give up'.

Just because something is not planned in a game doesn't make it cheating if you do it. It might be cheesy, like reloading until you successfully pickpocket an item, but its not cheating. Like for instance Algernon's cloak in BG1 had effectively unlimited charges (in the original it had a buggy per/day implementation which allowed it to change from "0" charges to 65535 charges after one use) and it could charm pretty much every enemy in the game. The cloak wasn't intended to work like that but using it wasn't cheating (though it was cheesy).

Also in the case of pickpockets being able to reload doesn't make it worthless because there are minimum scores you need (particularly in stores but also on some characters) in order to ever stand a chance of pickpocketing them regardless (getting the ring of regeneration off Ribald is a good example). I don't think its a clear cut matter.

blackchimes

That's not what powergaming means. Powergaming essentially means min-maxing your character, picking the "best" race, the "best" class, training in "best" weapons, going straight to locations that contain "best" gear, etc. with no regard to roleplaying or personal preferences.

Or doing things like killing Firebead in Candlekeep for the 2700XP, or killing Marl after talking him down for both the peaceful solution XP and the violent solution XP. (Both of these are fixed in EE, sadly)

But even when you powergame you stay within the basic game ruleset.

Shin

Heindrich1988 said:

It's like breaking the law. You either do it or not, you can't 'kinda' break a law. But of course, you can break the law by drinking-driving, or murder.

A bit like breaking the law when you are the only person left in the entire world, maybe. In a philosophical sense, going in to raid a food store in such a situation might still be illegal, but there's no one around to suffer for it but your own possibly guilty conscience, anyway.

CamDawg

This is not a bookmark.

DeathKnight

If you fail a pickpocket, can't you always cast a spell like "friends"? Or use Algernon's Cloak? Instead of reloading?

That aside, i got sad that Firebead was "corrected". In the original, i would always kill-export-new game-import with him, until character was max. This is not considered cheat by many players, mostly because game adjusts to your party levels, and throws at you stronger ambushes and increased numbers while travelling anyway.

But if export/import still works with items at least, this is something. "Cloning" in multiplayer enough boots of speed for everyone, among other things, solves many of the game's hindrances and annoyances (big distances, low travel speed, etc.).

Shin

DeathKnight said:

That aside, i got sad that Firebead was "corrected". In the original, i would always kill-export-new game-import with him, until character was max.

It's an old debate, but why not just edit your character's xp to what you want it to be and save yourself the time?

ogreb

People reload all the time when leveling up..trying to max hps.
I re-load on pick pocketing as it is not really working right. My thief ( with multiple potions ) gets above 150 in pickpocketing...yet still gets caught ?
If nobody reloaded...nobody would be playing this game.
Besides team wipes those are the only time I reload.

Twilight_Fox

Some tips/cheats/exploits are useful on the tablet version for those who want to 'customize their save game'. In other hand, even if this is easier to give you 10000xp with Shadowkeeper, it can also be fun to slaughter everyone in Candlekeep to achieve your goal and start your next adventure with 1-2 more lvl. More time consuming of course, but if playing the game is fun, this could also be fun for some. Of course this is not the legit way to play a ‘’classic D&d adventure’’ but since this is a single player game mostly, people can choice to play the way they want (in my opinion).

Heindrich

DeathKnight said:

If you fail a pickpocket, can't you always cast a spell like "friends"? Or use Algernon's Cloak? Instead of reloading?

That aside, i got sad that Firebead was "corrected". In the original, i would always kill-export-new game-import with him, until character was max. This is not considered cheat by many players, mostly because game adjusts to your party levels, and throws at you stronger ambushes and increased numbers while travelling anyway.

But if export/import still works with items at least, this is something. "Cloning" in multiplayer enough boots of speed for everyone, among other things, solves many of the game's hindrances and annoyances (big distances, low travel speed, etc.).

You have a very loose definition of cheating then, which frankly I believe is wrong. You are deluding yourself if you think the game adjusts for cheating by that much. It's not like Tarnesh attacks with a horde of stealthed assassins if you level up before you reach him, or Mulahey summons Tarnar'ri demons. A lot of the encounters in the game become so meaningless that I wonder why you'd even bother playing that way... But then I don't really even understand powergaming in a single-player game like this, let alone cheating.

Even 'cheese' ruins the game for me. In BG 1 Vanilla, Alegernon's Cloak was brokenly powerful, allowing near unlimited charms against most opponents. As a total noob I cheesed my way to so many victories in the early game that I didn't really learn much about the combat system until I disciplined myself to only use it once a day.

@ogreb

As I said, pick-pocketing is the one exception where I might use limited save-load cheats cos it's too difficult right now, and the consequences for getting caught is too high.

I think it's perfectly possible for people to play with no-reloads (apart from PC death of course) if they don't try to pick-pocket.

reedmilfam

In a single player game, who cares? The player decides whether or not to use easy-outs/cheats/exploits and is the only one to know or care, right? I find it silly to worry about in a single player situation.

irendie

reedmilfam said:

In a single player game, who cares? The player decides whether or not to use easy-outs/cheats/exploits and is the only one to know or care, right? I find it silly to worry about in a single player situation.

I have for example 5x 1 type of drizzt scimitar in my party that I prepeared for BGEE2. Yea, now you think I am cheater or I simply duplicated it via multiplayer - but even in single-player, where nobody can slamming me, I completed this game 6 times (1x with every of 4 characters except mage (I love my mage and I completed game with him 3 times)) (of course 6 times only for this party, before that there were other completed game runs but it isn't important).

I think that using bugs, duplicating via multi-player, cheating etc. are dishonorable and my Role Players soul hates that people who are doing this because they want better equipment or they say that the game is too hard without it. This game isn't hard even on insane with some mods that make game harder (for example Charan's Harsh Faerun Mod) and with 1 character, and this people only make excuses.

sarevok57

I love transferring my multiplayer team over to single player, I was making the ultimate team where I would make 1 character per game so then I could give them all the tomes, and for the fighters I only every had imoen and xan on my team to reach the final battle ( playing the game with only 3 characters was actually a very fun experience) and then when I made my support characters, I made a half-orc fighter thief, and an elven sorcerer and completely wrecked shop, har har

Battlehamster

Are the boots of speed still in BG 2? Well, there's your answer.
Boots of Speed + Archer = Win
It's not a bug or an exploit but I certainly consider it a petty trick. A FUN petty trick ofc.