NPCs that make playing that class seem pointless

mylegbig

In the BG games, are there any NPCs that make you lose interest in picking that particular class/kit for your PC for whatever reason? For me it's:

Keldorn - He makes picking the inquisitor seem pointless since there's no reason not to just use him instead if I want one. Sure, I can make one with better stats, but he's still going to use mostly the same equipment (Carsomyr) and play exactly the same--true sight, dispel, whack things with Carsomyr.

Edwin - He's a better single class mage than I can ever be. Wild mage is different enough to be interesting, but otherwise I feel no desire to be either a vanilla or specialist mage because of him.

Astafas

Jan as a Thief/Illusionist. Being a gnome, he get's the extra specialization spells. And all his gear gives him massive bonuses that you wouldn't get yourself.

ZanathKariashi

Actually...the fact that Carsomyr exists, kind of invalidates any reason to take an inquisitor at all, and would be much better suited for any other kind of paladin, since even though it has less chance of dispelling, it's also unlimited chances to dispel, and no matter the level difference there's always a 5% chance of success or failure).

atcDave

It can be useful to double, or triple up on every class, except maybe thief. So Imoen sort of makes another thief pointless to me, except for the period when she's not available.
But then, I'm not really into thieves, so maybe Imoen just provides me an excuse to create a character I am interested in!

mjs

Haer'dalis and blade, with his extra pips in long and short swords, high strength and dexterity, his only weakness is con, which can be easily raised with the belt or potions of fortitude

rexreg

@atcDave
This assumes a good PC. Nalia is my thief through most of the game. Imoen becomes my thief later, but I don't get rid of Nalia. I consider them both as thieves that have certain other skills, thought, not true thieves. No other thief is necessary.

atcDave

rexreg said:

@atcDave
This assumes a good PC. Nalia is my thief through most of the game. Imoen becomes my thief later, but I don't get rid of Nalia. I consider them both as thieves that have certain other skills, thought, not true thieves. No other thief is necessary.

Well yeah, I only play good aligned parties, so Imoen is always my "go to" thief. I could however see keeping Nalia in my party too (I think I have kept her to the end before, too many play throughs to be sure!), but mainly because she's a good Mage. And you can never have enough mages!

ZanathKariashi

Except Nalia is worthless as a thief. Imeon at least is kind of useful at base and can pick most locks or traps with the aid of booster items. Nalia is only semi-useful WITH booster items, still lacking the ability to disarm/open most locks/traps.


Technically Haer'daelis doesn't get anything a player can't (and completely lacks any tiefling traits making him a human, using a half-elf model, with a difference race name). While it's definitely a bug, rarely when importing a bard from vanilla BG1 to BG2 and converting them to a blade, when you pick your new proficiencies they sometimes can specialize in any 1hd sword weapon, except short swords. Doesn't happen every time, and I have no idea what causes it. But after creation, they're back to only being able to place 1 pip in other stuff.

10thLich

But Haer'Dalis gets innate resistances to fire, cold, electricity and physical damage at 25,50,25 and 15 respectively. Unfortunately no infravision, and no save bonuses.

Infravision in general is a missed opportunity, as it seems to have no effect in-game.

And no, I my opinion there's no such thing as NPCs that make playing that class seem pointless. But I prefer magic-using classes, and you can never have enough of those.

zur312

ZanathKariashi said:

Actually...the fact that Carsomyr exists, kind of invalidates any reason to take an inquisitor at all, and would be much better suited for any other kind of paladin, since even though it has less chance of dispelling, it's also unlimited chances to dispel, and no matter the level difference there's always a 5% chance of success or failure).

unless pfmw on high level mage and you need dispell from inquisitor?

Coutelier

In my last playthrough I chose a Paladin, because I thought if I was really 'good' I wouldn't get to keep Keldorn to wield Carsomyr. I find that thieves and mages are pretty well covered by the NPC's in the game (unless you're evil in BG2).

zur312

only edwin is kind of better mage than any mage in terms of powerlevel imo
sarevok and imoen are near perfect for some "builds"

jan is quite weak in stats
keldorn not really that good
minsc mediocre
korgan is pretty good bat not perfect
aerie pretty weak low con
viconia like aerie + pure cleric not really the most powerfull class

ogreb

I don't pick NPCs based on skill or stats.
I just take because I like them...warts and all.

I took Jan just because he is gnome. ( I play gnome F/Ill ). It's nice to talk to a party member without getting a crick in my neck from looking up.
Besides , us vertically challenged need to hang together.

I don't really care abut building a min max team...I just want to play and have fun.

Nic_Mercy

I play whatever class I want and choose complimentary npc's accordingly. My choice of class is not dependent on what npc's are available. My choice of npc's IS dependent on the class * I * choose to play

Heindrich

I don't see how any NPCs are necessarily stronger than Charname. For a start most NPCs have glaring weaknesses when it comes to stats. Even my non-min/max'd Charname has superior ability stats compared to most of the NPCs. Also Charname has Bhaalspawn powers.

If you reverse the arguement, why bother with any NPCs since they are all weaker than Charname of the same class?

Jarrakul

Edwin is the only real example for me, and even then if I play a sorcerer or wild mage or multiclassed mage I'm fine with it. And even that's only true for evil parties. Good parties won't want Edwin, so the point becomes moot.

Nic_Mercy

I should also point out that having more than one of the same class isnt necessarily a bad thing either. Maybe two single class thieves might be a bit redundant but even that can be fixed if you pick a kit.

DreadKhan

Coran was hurtful in bg1... Edwin is very good, but you can make a Mage that's better at surviving. He's tops for spell casting though.

I think I mostly agree that inquisitors don't need Carsomyr, unlike other pallies that should buy locked gauntlets. Inquisitors can enjoy other weapon choices, like dual wielding. It's like giving your undead hunter the illithiumed up mace, or the amulet of power. It's not wrong per say, but I don't thinks its the best use of resources.

Shin

Edwin can't abuse (or even use) the wish spells very well due to his low wisdom, a PC mage can use the amulet of power to attain slightly faster casting times than he can get, and using mods like item upgrade you can over the course of BG2 fashion spellslot bonus items that make his advantages less glaring - but overall I'd agree he's still stronger than PC mages.

Lord_Tansheron

DreadKhan said:

I think I mostly agree that inquisitors don't need Carsomyr

Carsomyr is still a +5 (+6) weapon with 50% MR and dispel on hit. That is quite good. Considering there will likely be no one else to use it as it's Paladin-exclusive, it's a good plan to have it even on an Inquisitor. Dual-wield is limited in its maximum efficacy by the availability of the +APR offhands, so if you can have an effective 2h-user with Carsomyr, that alone is worth something. Also, not having to actually use Dispel Magic with your Inquisitor, as well as not inadvertently dispelling your party, is a bonus, too.

That being said, there's few NPCs that do a job better than CHARNAME could. Edwin is certainly the main culprit, due to his Amulet of OP-ness. I also find Sarevok to be quite powerful; as random as Deathbringer Assault is, when it does hit it does the most silly things. And with maximum native APR, you can actually get it to proc quite a lot... The only problem with Sarevok is that he's available so late in the saga, and that you risk him going over to the other side if you make certain choices (with the Ascension mod of course).

I don't think that simply having an NPC ready for a particular class is reason enough not to make a CHARNAME of that same class. Keldorn is a decent Inquisitor to be sure, but none of his special gear is particularly powerful, nor does he have special abilities (to my knowledge). That's discounting the RP factors, of course, those can't really be classified.

Haer'dalis' resistances are more of an argument in that respect, and can come in quite handy. Minsc has his own Berserker Rage, Edwin the aforementioned amulet. Nalia's ring is just a RoP+1 afaik, so not exactly a big bonus. Imoen gains some Bhaalspawn powers with mods, which can be nice. Viconia has some magic resistance (I think?). Jan has his special armor, though it's often more useful on other characters (with UAI). I don't think there are noteworthy bonuses on anyone else, so there you have it.

Corvino

@Lord_Tansheron Nalia's ring is a ring of protection +2 with bonus fire resistance, I think.

Lord_Tansheron

If that's true, it may be worth a consideration. Though admittedly she is not the most... fortuitous class combination.

elminster

Nalia has 80 find traps and 60 lock pick. If you can get your hands on the ring of pick locks thats 85/80. Coupled with the luck spell and that probably means you can disable 80%+ of the traps in BG2. Thats not even considering the multitude of potions of master thievery and perception you can get in the game.