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Kivan

You know Kivan . He is one of the coolest NPC in BG1 . In my oppinion it is very bad that he's not in BG2. Maybe game developers can do something about it ! are you agree?
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Comments

  • wojtekwojtek Member Posts: 311
    really nobody likes him and want him to be in BGEE2?
  • O_BruceO_Bruce Member Posts: 2,790
    Contract limitations might be in the way to officialy implement him in BG2:EE.
  • CorvinoCorvino Member Posts: 2,269
    There is an existing BG2 mod that incorporates Kivan. I've not played it myself, but people were pretty positive about it.
  • ShinShin Member Posts: 2,344
    Yeah, it's written by the same person who did the NPC Project content for Kivan, so ties very much into his character and pretty much directly continues the story from the first game.
  • HeindrichHeindrich Member, Moderator Posts: 2,959
    I like Kivan, I really do. He was the one guy I missed the most in my first BG run cos I wanted to stick to the canon party.

    However, it would be unrealistic if every character in BG 1 somehow made their way to Amn for BG 2. I am not so biased for any specific character that I MUST have them in my party for BG 2, so I'm not too bothered to be honest.

    Besides, Kivan's awesome power in BG 1 kinda diminishes in BG 2 given how missile weapons loses importance in relation to magic and melee weapons.
  • ShinShin Member Posts: 2,344
    It's not so much about benefitting from a character's skillsets as being interested in seeing how their storylines (in as much as they had any) continue imo.

    In Kivan's case, within the context of the mod his appearance in Amn is rather natural: you became a close friend to him during the events in BG1, stood by him when it would have been easier not to, and helped him achieve his revenge. Thus, when he heard about your disappearance, he came looking for you. To me that makes a lot more sense than some of the more arbitrary BG1 character appearances.
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    Given that Kivan is better at melee then archery, I fail to see why he's disadvantaged in BG2. If he had a different portrait, no one would associate him with ranged weapons due to his stupidly high str for a BG1 vanilla NPC. He's worse then Khalid with ranged, but much better at melee then any other vanilla BG1 Npc except Minsc.
  • FrozenCellsFrozenCells Member Posts: 385

    Given that Kivan is better at melee then archery, I fail to see why he's disadvantaged in BG2. If he had a different portrait, no one would associate him with ranged weapons due to his stupidly high str for a BG1 vanilla NPC. He's worse then Khalid with ranged, but much better at melee then any other vanilla BG1 Npc except Minsc.

    Indeed. Worse than Coran too. Unfortunately the G3 mod has him as standard as an Archer kit...
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    edited September 2013
    Archer's a different story, they're hardly disadvantaged, their bonus damage easily compensates for the normal lack of str bonus on bows, and the difference between an archer and a ranger in melee is tiny and would only apply vs a handful of enemies. Just toss them a bow/xbow that generates it's own ammo, either the +3 longbow in trademeet, Firetooth (crossbow) is ready to rock from the get go (+4, later +5), or just use Tuigan bow with a quiver of plenty (saving your +2 arrows for the important enemies) till you can make Gesen (+4).
  • ShinShin Member Posts: 2,344
    Well, as mentioned Kivan's portrait speaks in favour of him being imagined as primarily an archery-type character (high strength makes him good at melee, but it's also natural for someone using a longbow, some of them have very high str requirements), but at this point it'll be tricky to ascertain exactly what the developers had in mind when designing him. If kits had been available in BG1, perhaps he would have been one back then, too.

    Within the context of the BG1 NPC mod though, he's RP-wise an archer through and through, and so giving him the kit to match seems like a no-brainer.
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,857
    I found that the fact that there was only a +2 Halbred very late was a big annoyance for melee use. I felt coran was a better scout archer, and Minsc a better damage dealer. I used him anyways at times, he's great early with the comp +1 bow. 17 dex is good for archery, but Khalid makes a much better tank... Despite being unable to damage anything.
  • RahlikRahlik Member Posts: 86
    DreadKhan said:

    he's great early with the comp +1 bow. 17 dex is good for archery, but Khalid makes a much better tank... Despite being unable to damage anything.

    and Khalid loves to run away at the sight of a kobold :)

  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,857
    Rahlik said:

    DreadKhan said:

    he's great early with the comp +1 bow. 17 dex is good for archery, but Khalid makes a much better tank... Despite being unable to damage anything.

    and Khalid loves to run away at the sight of a kobold :)

    It might role two crits in a row!

    Shame and irony mingle, having seen my pc get critted for at least 11 damage by a kobold. It was an awkward reload.
  • RahlikRahlik Member Posts: 86
    DreadKhan said:

    Rahlik said:

    DreadKhan said:

    he's great early with the comp +1 bow. 17 dex is good for archery, but Khalid makes a much better tank... Despite being unable to damage anything.

    and Khalid loves to run away at the sight of a kobold :)

    It might roll two crits in a row!

    Shame and irony mingle, having seen my pc get critted for at least 11 damage by a kobold. It was an awkward reload.
    Awkwardness Is laughing out loud to yourself at this and then realizing you have also been in that situation too haha! :)

  • SharGuidesMyHandSharGuidesMyHand Member Posts: 2,582
    I've never agreed with the notion of Kivan as an archer. What makes him one of the best NPCs in BG1 IMO is his versatility - he can be both a heavily armored tank or a stealthy ranged fighter. Making him an archer takes away what makes him unique.

    Coran would be much better suited to be an archer IMO, due to his mediocre melee ability (of course, that would mean sacrificing his thieving skills).
  • revaarrevaar Member Posts: 160
    Personally, I always saw Kivan as more of a Stalker than archer, it just fits his personality better. In fact, in a recent play through I keepered him into a stalker and moved his halberd proficiency to Scimitars, and it the most fun I've ever had with him!
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,857
    revaar said:

    Personally, I always saw Kivan as more of a Stalker than archer, it just fits his personality better. In fact, in a recent play through I keepered him into a stalker and moved his halberd proficiency to Scimitars, and it the most fun I've ever had with him!

    ...as long as you didn't also keeper his skin to black, hair to white and give him 50% mr.
  • BolekBolek Member Posts: 60
    @wojtek - Kivan is very good, and we can have him at the beginning (unlike Coran)
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,853

    Besides, Kivan's awesome power in BG 1 kinda diminishes in BG 2 given how missile weapons loses importance in relation to magic and melee weapons.

    Yeah, 'cuz 18/12 Strength ain't no thang.

    I will never understand where people get the idea that Kivan is purely a bowman. He's incredibly versatile.
  • CutlassJackCutlassJack Member Posts: 493
    Quartz said:


    I will never understand where people get the idea that Kivan is purely a bowman.

    The character portrait basically.
  • BladeDancerBladeDancer Member Posts: 477
    edited September 2013
    Its because of the portrait.
    Post edited by BladeDancer on
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    His character portrait, entirely.
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 6,002
    kivan is actually one of my favourite melee'ers for good aligned teams, usually him and Khalid, kivan has great dexterity and if you are insane you can give him the manual of gainful exercise and holy poop, brings minsc to school ( even if minsc was giving the manual, kivan has better AC 'cause minsc direly needs those mitties of dex, while kivan doesn't so then he can use mits of weapon expertise < or is it specialization?> :) )
  • LateralusLateralus Member Posts: 903
    Sure, he can capture Aerie's attention for me while I work on romancing Viconia. You know...a wing man.
  • MathmickMathmick Member Posts: 326
    pixie359 said:

    Does anyone think it's related to his character portrait?

    The three people that posted before you, maybe?
  • pixie359pixie359 Member Posts: 251
    @mathmick that was the joke.
  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,460
    Kivan is a better archer than Khalid, and Minsc. He starts specialised with long bow, is strong enough to wield composite bows (damage bonus is very important, it matters if you kill a hobgoblin with a one hit or two) and is a pure elf:gaining +1 to hit with bows. Khalid lacks strength and specialisation (although he can get mastery at the end of the game, if you want) and elven bonus, while Minsc lacks dexterity and elven bonus as well.

    Ofcourse Coran is absolutely the best archer in the game, but if meleeing is needed Kivan will kick Coran's butt sorely thanks to his exceptional strength score.
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    Except that it's already been proven that Khalid is a superior archer to Kivan.

    Kivan is a better front liner due to better AC and higher str and good con. He also has some nice little resistances, which are wasted on a back-line character. Yes, he can use a bow alright, as should ALL warriors before lvl 7, since they're better attack rate, and the damage difference is tiny due to few npcs having more then +2 bonus from str, which is easily compensated by an extra attack.

    Hell, Kivan is arguably the best front liner in the game of the vanilla NPCs, needing no items to perform well, while Ajantis and Minsc require dex gauntlets, Khalid/Shar-teel have poor str, Jaheria is poor str AND crappy dex, Kaigan has crappy dex and str, though he does at least have a TON of hp and regens slightly, slightly offsetting getting hit more often.

    Coran, as a F/T, should be BSing if he isn't using his illegally high bow prof to shoot, which MORE then makes up for his otherwise lower str. (If he opens with a BS, he can get the equivalent of 5 attacks in a round, where as everyone else is stuck with 3 or less for melee, and 2 attacks is worth A LOT more then +1 hit, +2 damage, and he could always use a str increasing potion, ogre gauntlets, str belt...whatever, for even more damage).
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